FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
» Video Reviews

» Linux Archive

Linux-archive is a website aiming to archive linux email lists and to make them easily accessible for linux users/developers.


» Sponsor

» Partners

» Sponsor

Go Back   Linux Archive > Redhat > Fedora User

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
 
Old 02-03-2010, 03:07 AM
Ed Greshko
 
Default What driives me crazy about bugzilla

Aaron Konstam wrote:
> What I saw under F11 was icons for all the Fedora machines on the LAN
> including the one I am on and I would expect to be able to open the icon
> and login to the machine. You can do that using Places-> Connect to
> Server but then yo need to know in advance the machines name or ip
> address. Using Places->Network seems easier.
>
OK.... I got an F11 system up and running. And I now see what you want.

On the F11 system I bring up "Places->Network" and indeed there are
icons labeled "f11" and "f12". Clicking on the "f12" icon brings up a
login dialog which then results in an sftp connection.

Now..... The reason you see this on F11 and not F12 is that F11 is
sending out MDNS query broadcasts and F12 is responding. *However*,
F12 is not sending out MDNS queries. I thought this was due to the file
/etc/sysconfig/network contained "NOZEROCONF=yes" but changing it to
"no" has had not effect.

So, need to figure out how to get F12 to send MDNS queries.....

--
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
 
Old 02-03-2010, 07:20 AM
Ed Greshko
 
Default What driives me crazy about bugzilla

Ed Greshko wrote:
> Aaron Konstam wrote:
>> What I saw under F11 was icons for all the Fedora machines on the
>> LAN including the one I am on and I would expect to be able to open
>> the icon and login to the machine. You can do that using Places->
>> Connect to Server but then yo need to know in advance the machines
>> name or ip address. Using Places->Network seems easier.
>>
> OK.... I got an F11 system up and running. And I now see what you
> want.
>
> On the F11 system I bring up "Places->Network" and indeed there are
> icons labeled "f11" and "f12". Clicking on the "f12" icon brings up
> a login dialog which then results in an sftp connection.
>
> Now..... The reason you see this on F11 and not F12 is that F11 is
> sending out MDNS query broadcasts and F12 is responding. *However*,
> F12 is not sending out MDNS queries. I thought this was due to the
> file /etc/sysconfig/network contained "NOZEROCONF=yes" but changing
> it to "no" has had not effect.
>
> So, need to figure out how to get F12 to send MDNS queries.....
>
OK....this is most definitely a GNOME issue.....

I sniffed the wire for MDNS requests....

When one starts a GNOME session (no open windows, etc...) an F12 system
does not send out any MDNS queries. Once you click on "Places->Network"
it will send out MDNS queries, but *only* for PTR records.

When one starts a KDE session an F12 system will quickly send out MDNS
queries for PTR *and* SVR records. Subsequently, you can start dolphin
then click on Network and then Network and you'll see icons for both
your local system and a remote system.

So, on F12 KDE works pretty much as expected/desired. GNOME does not.

With all that said, I believe the most important difference is the
questions asked in the PTR queries from GNOME between F11 and F12.

From F11....

Standard query PTR _ftp._tcp.local, "QM" question TXT
f11._ssh._tcp.local, "QM" question SRV
f11._ssh._tcp.local, "QM" question TXT f12._ssh._tcp.local, "QM"
question SRV f12._ssh._tcp.local, "QM" question PTR _smb._tcp.local,
"QM" question PTR _ssh._tcp.local, "QM" question PTR
_sftp-ssh._tcp.local, "QM" question PTR _webdavs._tcp.local, "QM"
question PTR _webdav._tcp.local, "QM" question

From F12....

Standard query PTR _ftp._tcp.local, "QM" question PTR _smb._tcp.local,
"QM" question PTR _sftp-ssh._tcp.local, "QM" question PTR
_webdavs._tcp.local, "QM" question PTR _webdav._tcp.local, "QM" question

So, you can see F12 GNOME isn't asking about ssh or sftp services. I
haven't found the magic setting to change it.

Maybe you can/should modify your bugzilla to include this information.
Or maybe someone here will now come up with the answer. It could be as
simple as having not installed a given package....

Ed



--
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
 
Old 02-03-2010, 01:53 PM
Aaron Konstam
 
Default What driives me crazy about bugzilla

On Wed, 2010-02-03 at 16:20 +0800, Ed Greshko wrote:
> Ed Greshko wrote:
> > Aaron Konstam wrote:
> >> What I saw under F11 was icons for all the Fedora machines on the
> >> LAN including the one I am on and I would expect to be able to open
> >> the icon and login to the machine. You can do that using Places->
> >> Connect to Server but then yo need to know in advance the machines
> >> name or ip address. Using Places->Network seems easier.
> >>
> > OK.... I got an F11 system up and running. And I now see what you
> > want.
> >
> > On the F11 system I bring up "Places->Network" and indeed there are
> > icons labeled "f11" and "f12". Clicking on the "f12" icon brings up
> > a login dialog which then results in an sftp connection.
> >
> > Now..... The reason you see this on F11 and not F12 is that F11 is
> > sending out MDNS query broadcasts and F12 is responding.
> *However*,
> > F12 is not sending out MDNS queries. I thought this was due to the
> > file /etc/sysconfig/network contained "NOZEROCONF=yes" but changing
> > it to "no" has had not effect.
> >
> > So, need to figure out how to get F12 to send MDNS queries.....
> >
> OK....this is most definitely a GNOME issue....

Well I ma embarrassed. You reminded me of a truth which confirms your
analysis. When I observed this phenomena in F11 my other machine was
running F12. So that changed the whole picture along the lines that you
have discovered. I am going to have to think further on this matter.

But, the shame is that I expected the bugzilla people to try to do what
you have dune instead of leaving me hanging. Thanks for all of your
work.
--
================================================== =====================
Do you remember when you only had to pay for windows when *you* broke
them? -- Noel Maddy
================================================== =====================
Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: akonstam@sbcglobal.net

--
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
 
Old 02-03-2010, 02:34 PM
Sam J Sharpe
 
Default What driives me crazy about bugzilla

D'oh - don't usually post from work so my mail isn't set up to reply
from the right address!

Begin forwarded message:
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 15:29:36 +0000
From: Sam J Sharpe <sam@samsharpe.net>
To: Community support for Fedora users <users@lists.fedoraproject.org>
Cc: akonstam@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Re: What driives me crazy about bugzilla [Making Progress]

On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 08:53:40 -0600
Aaron Konstam <akonstam@sbcglobal.net> wrote:

> On Wed, 2010-02-03 at 16:20 +0800, Ed Greshko wrote:
> > Ed Greshko wrote:
> > > Aaron Konstam wrote:
> > >> What I saw under F11 was icons for all the Fedora machines on the
> > >> LAN including the one I am on and I would expect to be able to
> > >> open the icon and login to the machine. You can do that using
> > >> Places-> Connect to Server but then yo need to know in advance
> > >> the machines name or ip address. Using Places->Network seems
> > >> easier.
> > >>
> > > OK.... I got an F11 system up and running. And I now see what
> > > you want.
> > >
> > > On the F11 system I bring up "Places->Network" and indeed there
> > > are icons labeled "f11" and "f12". Clicking on the "f12" icon
> > > brings up a login dialog which then results in an sftp connection.
> > >
> > > Now..... The reason you see this on F11 and not F12 is that F11
> > > is sending out MDNS query broadcasts and F12 is responding.
> > *However*,
> > > F12 is not sending out MDNS queries. I thought this was due to
> > > the file /etc/sysconfig/network contained "NOZEROCONF=yes" but
> > > changing it to "no" has had not effect.
> > >
> > > So, need to figure out how to get F12 to send MDNS queries.....
> > >
> > OK....this is most definitely a GNOME issue....
>
> Well I ma embarrassed. You reminded me of a truth which confirms your
> analysis. When I observed this phenomena in F11 my other machine was
> running F12. So that changed the whole picture along the lines that
> you have discovered. I am going to have to think further on this
> matter.

Your embarrassment triggered my curiousity ;o)

I see machines running Mac OSX as you describe in Places->Network when
on my corporate network. After some experimentation, I discovered that
those machines displayed are the ones that are advertising "SFTP
Transfer Service" via mDNS.

Assuming you've got avahi-daemon running and your local firewall
isn't denying it, try creating this file and see if your machines show
up as you expect:

[sam@work services]$ cat /etc/avahi/services/sftp.service
<?xml version="1.0" standalone='no'?>
<!DOCTYPE service-group SYSTEM "avahi-service.dtd">
<service-group>
<name replace-wildcards="yes">%h</name>
<service>
<type>_sftp-ssh._tcp</type>
<port>22</port>
</service>
</service-group>

Now what the difference is between Gnome and KDE, I don't know. Gnome
seems to only be showing things that are in the "local" mDNS domain and
advertising SFTP.

--
Sam

--
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
 
Old 02-03-2010, 11:54 PM
Ed Greshko
 
Default What driives me crazy about bugzilla

Sam J Sharpe wrote:
> D'oh - don't usually post from work so my mail isn't set up to reply
> from the right address!
>
>
> I see machines running Mac OSX as you describe in Places->Network when
> on my corporate network. After some experimentation, I discovered that
> those machines displayed are the ones that are advertising "SFTP
> Transfer Service" via mDNS.
>
> Assuming you've got avahi-daemon running and your local firewall
> isn't denying it, try creating this file and see if your machines show
> up as you expect:
>
> [sam@work services]$ cat /etc/avahi/services/sftp.service
> <?xml version="1.0" standalone='no'?>
> <!DOCTYPE service-group SYSTEM "avahi-service.dtd">
> <service-group>
> <name replace-wildcards="yes">%h</name>
> <service>
> <type>_sftp-ssh._tcp</type>
> <port>22</port>
> </service>
> </service-group>
>
> Now what the difference is between Gnome and KDE, I don't know. Gnome
> seems to only be showing things that are in the "local" mDNS domain and
> advertising SFTP.
>
>
Adding that file to the f12 side but not the f11 side will show an icon
for f12 on the f12 side and permit sftp access.

Adding that file to both f12 and f122 will show icons for both on the
f12 side and allow sftp access to both.

So, good job...great catch.

But, of course, that just shows the inconsistencies in the various
implementations...and raises another question. From this test, it would
seem that the KDE implementation will send its own MDNS query and ignore
the "defaults" in the services directory. But, even if GNOME does use
the files in the services directory it seems to be ignoring the
ssh.service file that exists. Neither f11 nor f12 system offers ssh as
a service under GNOME. However, KDE in both f11 and f12 offers ssh and
sftp regardless of what is in the services directory.

Very confusing....and what seems to be patternless....at least at this
time without coffee.... :-(


--
What color is a chameleon on a mirror?

--
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
 
Old 02-04-2010, 12:18 AM
Ed Greshko
 
Default What driives me crazy about bugzilla

Ed Greshko wrote:
> Sam J Sharpe wrote:
>
>> D'oh - don't usually post from work so my mail isn't set up to reply
>> from the right address!
>>
>>
>> I see machines running Mac OSX as you describe in Places->Network when
>> on my corporate network. After some experimentation, I discovered that
>> those machines displayed are the ones that are advertising "SFTP
>> Transfer Service" via mDNS.
>>
>> Assuming you've got avahi-daemon running and your local firewall
>> isn't denying it, try creating this file and see if your machines show
>> up as you expect:
>>
>> [sam@work services]$ cat /etc/avahi/services/sftp.service
>> <?xml version="1.0" standalone='no'?>
>> <!DOCTYPE service-group SYSTEM "avahi-service.dtd">
>> <service-group>
>> <name replace-wildcards="yes">%h</name>
>> <service>
>> <type>_sftp-ssh._tcp</type>
>> <port>22</port>
>> </service>
>> </service-group>
>>
>> Now what the difference is between Gnome and KDE, I don't know. Gnome
>> seems to only be showing things that are in the "local" mDNS domain and
>> advertising SFTP.
>>
>>
>>
> Adding that file to the f12 side but not the f11 side will show an icon
> for f12 on the f12 side and permit sftp access.
>
> Adding that file to both f12 and f122 will show icons for both on the
> f12 side and allow sftp access to both.
>
> So, good job...great catch.
>
> But, of course, that just shows the inconsistencies in the various
> implementations...and raises another question. From this test, it would
> seem that the KDE implementation will send its own MDNS query and ignore
> the "defaults" in the services directory. But, even if GNOME does use
> the files in the services directory it seems to be ignoring the
> ssh.service file that exists. Neither f11 nor f12 system offers ssh as
> a service under GNOME. However, KDE in both f11 and f12 offers ssh and
> sftp regardless of what is in the services directory.
>
> Very confusing....and what seems to be patternless....at least at this
> time without coffee.... :-(
>
>
OK.... I've had some coffee...still not topped off but better....

It seems that KDE does, for the most part, make proper use of the files
in services. I was confused earlier when I didn't notice that a folder
icon was for https service and not sftp service. There is a separate
issue with the https...but not going to go into it now.

So, it would seem that f11 may have had some hard coded stuff that was
ripped out in f12 and now needs manual configuration.


--
If you think nobody cares about you, try missing a couple of payments.

--
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
 
Old 02-04-2010, 12:43 PM
Sam J Sharpe
 
Default What driives me crazy about bugzilla

On Thu, 04 Feb 2010 08:54:01 +0800
Ed Greshko <Ed.Greshko@greshko.com> wrote:

> Sam J Sharpe wrote:
> > I see machines running Mac OSX as you describe in Places->Network
> > when on my corporate network. After some experimentation, I
> > discovered that those machines displayed are the ones that are
> > advertising "SFTP Transfer Service" via mDNS.
> >
> > Assuming you've got avahi-daemon running and your local firewall
> > isn't denying it, try creating this file and see if your machines
> > show up as you expect:
> >
> > [sam@work services]$ cat /etc/avahi/services/sftp.service
> > <?xml version="1.0" standalone='no'?>
> > <!DOCTYPE service-group SYSTEM "avahi-service.dtd">
> > <service-group>
> > <name replace-wildcards="yes">%h</name>
> > <service>
> > <type>_sftp-ssh._tcp</type>
> > <port>22</port>
> > </service>
> > </service-group>

> Adding that file to the f12 side but not the f11 side will show an
> icon for f12 on the f12 side and permit sftp access.
>
> Adding that file to both f12 and f122 will show icons for both on the
> f12 side and allow sftp access to both.
>
> So, good job...great catch.
>
> But, of course, that just shows the inconsistencies in the various
> implementations...and raises another question. From this test, it
> would seem that the KDE implementation will send its own MDNS query
> and ignore the "defaults" in the services directory. But, even if
> GNOME does use the files in the services directory it seems to be
> ignoring the ssh.service file that exists. Neither f11 nor f12
> system offers ssh as a service under GNOME. However, KDE in both f11
> and f12 offers ssh and sftp regardless of what is in the services
> directory.

noo.... you mis-understand what that file does. Neither Gnome or KDE is
checking that file at all.

Creating the sftp.service file for Avahi makes Avahi advertise the
service is available when responding to an mDNS query. The machine
(whether you're using Gnome or KDE) is not advertising sftp unless that
is configured.

KDE is obviously doing an mDNS query (as is Gnome) but Gnome is only
showing things that are broadcasting that they serve SFTP. I'm
surprised by this, as if it were me I probably would have made Gnome
also show Samba Servers in the same way. Heck - I have no right to
complain though, it's not like I've ever offered to assist the Gnome
Peeps ;o)


--
Sam
--
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
 
Old 02-04-2010, 12:53 PM
Aaron Konstam
 
Default What driives me crazy about bugzilla

On Wed, 2010-02-03 at 15:34 +0000, Sam J Sharpe wrote:
> D'oh - don't usually post from work so my mail isn't set up to reply
> from the right address!
>
> Begin forwarded message:
> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2010 15:29:36 +0000
> From: Sam J Sharpe <sam@samsharpe.net>
> To: Community support for Fedora users <users@lists.fedoraproject.org>
> Cc: akonstam@sbcglobal.net
> Subject: Re: What driives me crazy about bugzilla [Making Progress]
>
> On Wed, 03 Feb 2010 08:53:40 -0600
> Aaron Konstam <akonstam@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
> > On Wed, 2010-02-03 at 16:20 +0800, Ed Greshko wrote:
> > > Ed Greshko wrote:
> > > > Aaron Konstam wrote:
> > > >> What I saw under F11 was icons for all the Fedora machines on the
> > > >> LAN including the one I am on and I would expect to be able to
> > > >> open the icon and login to the machine. You can do that using
> > > >> Places-> Connect to Server but then yo need to know in advance
> > > >> the machines name or ip address. Using Places->Network seems
> > > >> easier.
> > > >>
> > > > OK.... I got an F11 system up and running. And I now see what
> > > > you want.
> > > >
> > > > On the F11 system I bring up "Places->Network" and indeed there
> > > > are icons labeled "f11" and "f12". Clicking on the "f12" icon
> > > > brings up a login dialog which then results in an sftp connection.
> > > >
> > > > Now..... The reason you see this on F11 and not F12 is that F11
> > > > is sending out MDNS query broadcasts and F12 is responding.
> > > *However*,
> > > > F12 is not sending out MDNS queries. I thought this was due to
> > > > the file /etc/sysconfig/network contained "NOZEROCONF=yes" but
> > > > changing it to "no" has had not effect.
> > > >
> > > > So, need to figure out how to get F12 to send MDNS queries.....
> > > >
> > > OK....this is most definitely a GNOME issue....
> >
> > Well I ma embarrassed. You reminded me of a truth which confirms your
> > analysis. When I observed this phenomena in F11 my other machine was
> > running F12. So that changed the whole picture along the lines that
> > you have discovered. I am going to have to think further on this
> > matter.
>
> Your embarrassment triggered my curiousity ;o)
>
> I see machines running Mac OSX as you describe in Places->Network when
> on my corporate network. After some experimentation, I discovered that
> those machines displayed are the ones that are advertising "SFTP
> Transfer Service" via mDNS.
>
> Assuming you've got avahi-daemon running and your local firewall
> isn't denying it, try creating this file and see if your machines show
> up as you expect:
>
> [sam@work services]$ cat /etc/avahi/services/sftp.service
> <?xml version="1.0" standalone='no'?>
> <!DOCTYPE service-group SYSTEM "avahi-service.dtd">
> <service-group>
> <name replace-wildcards="yes">%h</name>
> <service>
> <type>_sftp-ssh._tcp</type>
> <port>22</port>
> </service>
> </service-group>
>
> Now what the difference is between Gnome and KDE, I don't know. Gnome
> seems to only be showing things that are in the "local" mDNS domain and
> advertising SFTP.
>
> --
> Sam
>

Thanks, adding that file solved the problem.
--
================================================== =====================
Without freedom of choice there is no creativity. -- Kirk, "The return
of the Archons", stardate 3157.4
================================================== =====================
Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: akonstam@sbcglobal.net

--
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
 
Old 02-04-2010, 01:55 PM
Ed Greshko
 
Default What driives me crazy about bugzilla

Sam J Sharpe wrote:
>
>> Adding that file to the f12 side but not the f11 side will show an
>> icon for f12 on the f12 side and permit sftp access.
>>
>> Adding that file to both f12 and f122 will show icons for both on the
>> f12 side and allow sftp access to both.
>>
>> So, good job...great catch.
>>
>> But, of course, that just shows the inconsistencies in the various
>> implementations...and raises another question. From this test, it
>> would seem that the KDE implementation will send its own MDNS query
>> and ignore the "defaults" in the services directory. But, even if
>> GNOME does use the files in the services directory it seems to be
>> ignoring the ssh.service file that exists. Neither f11 nor f12
>> system offers ssh as a service under GNOME. However, KDE in both f11
>> and f12 offers ssh and sftp regardless of what is in the services
>> directory.
>>
>
> noo.... you mis-understand what that file does. Neither Gnome or KDE is
> checking that file at all.
>
Ah yes, of course. Don't know what I was thinking when I wrote that....
> Creating the sftp.service file for Avahi makes Avahi advertise the
> service is available when responding to an mDNS query. The machine
> (whether you're using Gnome or KDE) is not advertising sftp unless that
> is configured.
>
Yes.... But, I think, is where the confusion came in.

Even without the sftp.service file F11 would indicate sftp service
availability. But, in both F11 and F12 there does exist a ssh.service
file. So, apparently, the F11 client would presume that sftp service is
also available since that is the same port as ssh. Now, it seems the
F12 GNOME client only displays sftp if it is explicitly indicated in the
response.
> KDE is obviously doing an mDNS query (as is Gnome) but Gnome is only
> showing things that are broadcasting that they serve SFTP. I'm
> surprised by this, as if it were me I probably would have made Gnome
> also show Samba Servers in the same way. Heck - I have no right to
> complain though, it's not like I've ever offered to assist the Gnome
> Peeps ;o)
>
>
Yes.... Well, this was a fun exercise.


--
A Smith & Wesson beats four aces.

--
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
 
Old 02-05-2010, 12:29 AM
Sam Sharpe
 
Default What driives me crazy about bugzilla

On 4 February 2010 14:55, Ed Greshko <Ed.Greshko@greshko.com> wrote:
> Yes.... *But, I think, is where the confusion came in.
>
> Even without the sftp.service file F11 would indicate sftp service
> availability. *But, in both F11 and F12 there does exist a ssh.service
> file. *So, apparently, the F11 client would presume that sftp service is
> also available since that is the same port as ssh. *Now, it seems the
> F12 GNOME client only displays sftp if it is explicitly indicated in the
> response.

In theory, you could almost "assume" that the SSH service being
available, meant SFTP was available as it's pretty unusual to disable
SFTP transfers via SSH. That may have been the old behaviour of Gnome
in F11.

However, the "correct" behaviour is not to make assumptions and only
show the services that are advertised.

I see in a slightly different thread that we're talking about
Bugzilla'ing this against Nautilus in F12 - I'm not sure that this is
correct. If anything it's a bug against Nautilus in F11 which has
already been corrected.

--
Sam
--
users mailing list
users@lists.fedoraproject.org
To unsubscribe or change subscription options:
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users
Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/MailingListGuidelines
 

Thread Tools




All times are GMT. The time now is 02:45 AM.

VBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2007, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright 2007 - 2008, www.linux-archive.org