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Old 01-04-2008, 03:31 AM
Lamar Owen
 
Default Decorum needs to be raised.

On Thursday 03 January 2008, Cameron Simpson wrote:
> I skip: boring topics, known flamewars, and threads I know I'll just be
> inclined to flame on.

I typically exercise K-mail's delete-thread a lot, too. A mute-thread for
K-mail I'd love, so that incoming e-mail on a muted thread is automatically
deleted. Hmmm, I wonder....nope, ignore thread just marks incoming messages
in that thread as 'read' - I'd love a 'nuke thread' option that deleted
incoming messages in that thread.

> Do not feed the trolls.

This is good advice to a degree. Unfortunately, troll content creates signal
to noise problems in the archives; if someone searches the Fedora archives
for 'Java Solutions' the wrong procedures and ideas will be found.
Correcting incorrect factual information is a necessary thing.

Doing it without getting upset is more difficult.

Incidentally, love you .sig.
--
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Pisgah Astronomical Research Institute
1 PARI Drive
Rosman, NC 28772
(828)862-5554
www.pari.edu

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Old 01-04-2008, 03:36 AM
Charles Curley
 
Default Decorum needs to be raised.

On Thu, Jan 03, 2008 at 07:18:36PM -0800, Leslie Satenstein wrote:
> I have been in IT for 40 years, and in that time I learned a lesson or two.

Well said, Sir. Quite right. Thank you.

--

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Old 01-04-2008, 04:09 AM
Ed Greshko
 
Default Decorum needs to be raised.

Cameron Simpson wrote:
> On 04Jan2008 11:26, Ed Greshko <Ed.Greshko@greshko.com> wrote:
> | Leslie Satenstein wrote:
> | > I have been in IT for 40 years, and in that time I learned a lesson or two.
> | >
> | > a) Respect the other person. He is entitled to different ideas.
> | >
> | > b) I was once a beginner with lots to learn, and with only a fixed
> | > number of hours in the day. Respect me if you recognize the fact that I
> | > may not know all the answers. The same applies for your peers.
> |
> | What do you propose be done with people that claim they know *much* more
> | than they actually do?
>
> You could ignore them instead of flaming them. My delete-thread key gets
> regular use. I still need to duplicate GMail's mute-thread function...

So, ignore them even if they are dishing out potentially damaging advice?
Or, when you politely point out their errors their response is vitriolic?

Of course one should not be dragged down to their level. Yet it does happen.

The thing is everyone knows they should all watch their P's and Q's yet they
don't always. There is no need to be reminded of decorum since everyone
knows how to properly conduct themselves. It just doesn't always happen.
>
> I skip: boring topics, known flamewars, and threads I know I'll just be
> inclined to flame on.
>
> Do not feed the trolls.


--
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Old 01-04-2008, 12:32 PM
wwp
 
Default Decorum needs to be raised.

Hello Leslie,


On Thu, 3 Jan 2008 19:18:36 -0800 (PST) Leslie Satenstein <lsatenstein@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I have been in IT for 40 years, and in that time I learned a lesson or two.
>
> a) Respect the other person. He is entitled to different ideas.

There could be a hidden sarcasm or delicious irony in a)! ;-)

Good to read a bit of the decorum (and netiquette too) from time to
time, anyway!


Regards,

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Old 01-04-2008, 11:46 PM
John Summerfield
 
Default Decorum needs to be raised.

Leslie Satenstein wrote:

I have been in IT for 40 years, and in that time I learned a lesson or two.

a) Respect the other person. He is entitled to different ideas.


If you see a problem, raise it in the context of the problem.

If you see a flameware, best to keep out, unless you can find a
pacifying line: I recall once someone complained about some software on
its support list. He had a legitimate complaint, but his language was
rude (think, you fsckwit!) and vulgar, so people tended to focus on his
manner of complaint rather than on its merits.


Someone, not always noted for his tact, manage to draw people's
attention to the actual problem, and a resolution was found.


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Cheers
John

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Old 01-04-2008, 11:48 PM
John Summerfield
 
Default Decorum needs to be raised.

Ed Greshko wrote:

Leslie Satenstein wrote:

I have been in IT for 40 years, and in that time I learned a lesson or two.

a) Respect the other person. He is entitled to different ideas.

b) I was once a beginner with lots to learn, and with only a fixed
number of hours in the day. Respect me if you recognize the fact that I
may not know all the answers. The same applies for your peers.


What do you propose be done with people that claim they know *much* more
than they actually do?



_I_ don't so much what they think they know, but whether people will
accept my view when I'm right and they're not!




--

Cheers
John

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Old 01-04-2008, 11:53 PM
John Summerfield
 
Default Decorum needs to be raised.

Lamar Owen wrote:



While my message to Karl might have seemed a tad harsh (and, to a degree it
was), I can't help but get bent out of shape when an esteemed member of the
Fedora project is essentially called stupid.


Karl? Stupid? No!



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Cheers
John

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Old 01-05-2008, 05:34 PM
Claude Jones
 
Default Decorum needs to be raised.

On Thursday January 3 2008 11:36:41 pm Charles Curley wrote:
> On Thu, Jan 03, 2008 at 07:18:36PM -0800, Leslie Satenstein
wrote:
> > I have been in IT for 40 years, and in that time I learned a
> > lesson or two.
>
> Well said, Sir. Quite right. Thank you.

Bullies and boors are hard to correct - if you don't get them in
grade school, the chances of correcting their behavior by the
time they arrive in places like this are slim, but, I second the
commendation of Leslie's effort. The 'tone' of this list has
degenerated markedly over the past six months and it's a shame.

--
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Brunswick, MD, USA

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Old 01-14-2008, 06:38 PM
Thomas Cameron
 
Default Decorum needs to be raised.

On Thu, 2008-01-03 at 19:18 -0800, Leslie Satenstein wrote:
> I have been in IT for 40 years, and in that time I learned a lesson or
> two.

<snip most excellent observations and advice>

I don't actually buy into this, but it an interesting take on
communications with really bright people:

http://www.mit.edu/~jcb/tact.html

Again, I don't think there is any excuse for not at least starting out
being nice - I believe in the whole "do unto others as you'd have them
do unto you" thing. But it is an interesting point of view.

Thomas

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Old 01-14-2008, 07:35 PM
"Dean S. Messing"
 
Default Decorum needs to be raised.

Thomas Cameron wrote:
: On Thu, 2008-01-03 at 19:18 -0800, Leslie Satenstein wrote:
: > I have been in IT for 40 years, and in that time I learned a lesson or
: > two.
:
: <snip most excellent observations and advice>
:
: I don't actually buy into this, but it an interesting take on
: communications with really bright people:
:
: http://www.mit.edu/~jcb/tact.html
:
: Again, I don't think there is any excuse for not at least starting out
: being nice - I believe in the whole "do unto others as you'd have them
: do unto you" thing. But it is an interesting point of view.

Thanks for the "tact filter" link! I think the author his hit on a
little piece of wisdom here.

But he may have missed one type of person: the person who (for
whatever reason) has no "tact filter" at all. Thus much of what he
says is offensive to normal people (and he has no sense that it is)
and much he hears from normal people (no matter how tactfully spoken)
is offensive to him. I known a few people like this.

Dean

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