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Old 12-26-2007, 10:48 AM
"Robert P. J. Day"
 
Default how to jigdo download a fedora 8 re-spin in one easy step?

for the first time, i'd like to download the fedora 8 x86_64 re-spin
and, to be frank, there's not a single web page i've found that tells
me how to use jigdo to do it.

i've perused the tutorials and HOWTOs at fedoraunity.org and
followed links, and i'm now fairly conversant on the rationale behind
re-spins and why jigdo was developed and a whole lot of other stuff
but i've yet to find a single page that says, "oh, you want a re-spin?
follow these steps."

seriously, this is what i think has been a fundamental failing of a
lot of online fedora documentation -- the notion of a simple "recipe":
do these things, and you will get what you want. instead, there's
typically a great deal of philosophical substantiation, while the poor
reader is just sitting there, thinking, "well, yeah, but i just want
to *do* something, so how do i *do* it?" (it's sort of like, when i
ask someone for the time, i want them to tell me the time, i don't
need to be told how to build a watch.)

so, really, when i decided to grab a re-spin, i figured to invest a
minute or two googling, find the command, and run it. i'm still
looking. why is it typically this time-consuming?

rday


================================================== ======================
Robert P. J. Day
Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry
Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA

http://crashcourse.ca
================================================== ======================

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Old 12-26-2007, 11:00 AM
Ed Greshko
 
Default how to jigdo download a fedora 8 re-spin in one easy step?

Robert P. J. Day wrote:
> for the first time, i'd like to download the fedora 8 x86_64 re-spin
> and, to be frank, there's not a single web page i've found that tells
> me how to use jigdo to do it.
>
> i've perused the tutorials and HOWTOs at fedoraunity.org and
> followed links, and i'm now fairly conversant on the rationale behind
> re-spins and why jigdo was developed and a whole lot of other stuff
> but i've yet to find a single page that says, "oh, you want a re-spin?
> follow these steps."
>
> seriously, this is what i think has been a fundamental failing of a
> lot of online fedora documentation -- the notion of a simple "recipe":
> do these things, and you will get what you want. instead, there's
> typically a great deal of philosophical substantiation, while the poor
> reader is just sitting there, thinking, "well, yeah, but i just want
> to *do* something, so how do i *do* it?" (it's sort of like, when i
> ask someone for the time, i want them to tell me the time, i don't
> need to be told how to build a watch.)
>
> so, really, when i decided to grab a re-spin, i figured to invest a
> minute or two googling, find the command, and run it. i'm still
> looking. why is it typically this time-consuming?

Not 100% sure what you are asking...but are you seeking
http://atterer.net/jigdo/ for guidance?

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Old 12-26-2007, 11:26 AM
"Robert P. J. Day"
 
Default how to jigdo download a fedora 8 re-spin in one easy step?

On Wed, 26 Dec 2007, Ed Greshko wrote:

> Robert P. J. Day wrote:
> > for the first time, i'd like to download the fedora 8 x86_64 re-spin
> > and, to be frank, there's not a single web page i've found that tells
> > me how to use jigdo to do it.
> >
> > i've perused the tutorials and HOWTOs at fedoraunity.org and
> > followed links, and i'm now fairly conversant on the rationale behind
> > re-spins and why jigdo was developed and a whole lot of other stuff
> > but i've yet to find a single page that says, "oh, you want a re-spin?
> > follow these steps."
> >
> > seriously, this is what i think has been a fundamental failing of a
> > lot of online fedora documentation -- the notion of a simple "recipe":
> > do these things, and you will get what you want. instead, there's
> > typically a great deal of philosophical substantiation, while the poor
> > reader is just sitting there, thinking, "well, yeah, but i just want
> > to *do* something, so how do i *do* it?" (it's sort of like, when i
> > ask someone for the time, i want them to tell me the time, i don't
> > need to be told how to build a watch.)
> >
> > so, really, when i decided to grab a re-spin, i figured to invest a
> > minute or two googling, find the command, and run it. i'm still
> > looking. why is it typically this time-consuming?
>
> Not 100% sure what you are asking...but are you seeking
> http://atterer.net/jigdo/ for guidance?

sort of, but not quite. (in fact, i'd already been there.) let me
explain.

as someone who writes a *lot* of technical documentation (mostly
linux-related courseware manuals), i'm always interested in finding
clear and concise ways to explain how to do things. and sometimes, as
an experiment, if i'm trying to do something for the first time, i
approach it from the perspective of pretending i know *nothing* about
a particular topic, and see how long it takes me to figure out how to
do what i want.

in terms of grabbing a fedora 8 x86_64 respin, i figured i'd just
start with google and see how long it took me to find the appropriate
command. so i googled and started following links and, yes, i ended
up at atterer.net but, technically, if i'm new to jigdo, i'm not
looking for "guidance", i'm looking for how to *do* something. and,
IMHO:

1) i should eventually find the command or commands to run, and

2) if it's related to downloading fedora ISOs, i shouldn't have to
leave a fedora-related website to learn how.

maybe i just wandered off following the wrong link but, if someone
else on this list wants to test this and has never downloaded a
respin, i'm curious as to how long it would take to figure out how to
do it based on just reading the online docs and following links.

maybe it's just me. maybe i need more coffee this morning. but i
still haven't run across a simple paragraph that reads, "oh, you want
a respin? do this, this and this, and it's yours." instead, what you
normally get is a rambling, philosophical discourse on what some tool
is for, and why it's useful and so on. personally, when i ask someone
the time, i want them to tell me the time; i don't want to be told how
to build a watch.

anyway, if there's single web page that gives the recipe, i will of
course eat crow and be suitably embarrassed.

rday

================================================== ======================
Robert P. J. Day
Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry
Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA

http://crashcourse.ca
================================================== ======================

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To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
 
Old 12-26-2007, 11:27 AM
Martin Marques
 
Default how to jigdo download a fedora 8 re-spin in one easy step?

Ed Greshko escribió:
> Robert P. J. Day wrote:
>> for the first time, i'd like to download the fedora 8 x86_64 re-spin
>> and, to be frank, there's not a single web page i've found that tells
>> me how to use jigdo to do it.
>>
>> i've perused the tutorials and HOWTOs at fedoraunity.org and
>> followed links, and i'm now fairly conversant on the rationale behind
>> re-spins and why jigdo was developed and a whole lot of other stuff
>> but i've yet to find a single page that says, "oh, you want a re-spin?
>> follow these steps."
>>
>> seriously, this is what i think has been a fundamental failing of a
>> lot of online fedora documentation -- the notion of a simple "recipe":
>> do these things, and you will get what you want. instead, there's
>> typically a great deal of philosophical substantiation, while the poor
>> reader is just sitting there, thinking, "well, yeah, but i just want
>> to *do* something, so how do i *do* it?" (it's sort of like, when i
>> ask someone for the time, i want them to tell me the time, i don't
>> need to be told how to build a watch.)
>>
>> so, really, when i decided to grab a re-spin, i figured to invest a
>> minute or two googling, find the command, and run it. i'm still
>> looking. why is it typically this time-consuming?
>
> Not 100% sure what you are asking...but are you seeking
> http://atterer.net/jigdo/ for guidance?
>

Nah, better use:

http://fedorasolved.org/post-install-solutions/jigdo/

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Old 12-26-2007, 11:47 AM
"Robert P. J. Day"
 
Default how to jigdo download a fedora 8 re-spin in one easy step?

On Wed, 26 Dec 2007, Martin Marques wrote:

> Ed Greshko escribió:

> > Not 100% sure what you are asking...but are you seeking
> > http://atterer.net/jigdo/ for guidance?
> >
>
> Nah, better use:
>
> http://fedorasolved.org/post-install-solutions/jigdo/

heh. i've been there as well. i'm amused that, when that page tells
you that you need a real jigdo file, it links you to
http://spins.fedoraunity.org/, and when you go *there* and read down
to "How to Use Jigdo?", it links you back to (you guessed it) the page
you just came from.

are you starting to see what i'm talking about here?

rday

================================================== ======================
Robert P. J. Day
Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry
Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA

http://crashcourse.ca
================================================== ======================--
fedora-list mailing list
fedora-list@redhat.com
To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
 
Old 12-26-2007, 11:52 AM
Karl Larsen
 
Default how to jigdo download a fedora 8 re-spin in one easy step?

Robert P. J. Day wrote:

for the first time, i'd like to download the fedora 8 x86_64 re-spin
and, to be frank, there's not a single web page i've found that tells
me how to use jigdo to do it.

i've perused the tutorials and HOWTOs at fedoraunity.org and
followed links, and i'm now fairly conversant on the rationale behind
re-spins and why jigdo was developed and a whole lot of other stuff
but i've yet to find a single page that says, "oh, you want a re-spin?
follow these steps."

My problem was the man page tells you what console-perms is and who
wrote it but nothing about how to use it. I looked around and found by
accident how to use it.


So I tried to join the Fedora Documentation group and found the
documentation on how to do this, and a flacky old computer at MIT made
this a 2 week effort. Since I started trying to join the people in the
group are trying to make it easier to do so.


When I learn to use their wiki pages I will write down how to use
console-perms in plain simple English. It takes a lot longer than I thought.


Karl




seriously, this is what i think has been a fundamental failing of a
lot of online fedora documentation -- the notion of a simple "recipe":
do these things, and you will get what you want. instead, there's
typically a great deal of philosophical substantiation, while the poor
reader is just sitting there, thinking, "well, yeah, but i just want
to *do* something, so how do i *do* it?" (it's sort of like, when i
ask someone for the time, i want them to tell me the time, i don't
need to be told how to build a watch.)

so, really, when i decided to grab a re-spin, i figured to invest a
minute or two googling, find the command, and run it. i'm still
looking. why is it typically this time-consuming?

rday


================================================== ======================
Robert P. J. Day
Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry
Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA

http://crashcourse.ca
================================================== ======================





--

Karl F. Larsen, AKA K5DI
Linux User
#450462 http://counter.li.org.
PGP 4208 4D6E 595F 22B9 FF1C ECB6 4A3C 2C54 FE23 53A7

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Old 12-26-2007, 12:19 PM
"Robert P. J. Day"
 
Default how to jigdo download a fedora 8 re-spin in one easy step?

On Wed, 26 Dec 2007, Martin Marques wrote:

> Nah, better use:
>
> http://fedorasolved.org/post-install-solutions/jigdo/

putting together bits of info from various pages, here's what appears
to be what i was looking for if i want a respin of F8 x86_64:

1) make sure jigdo is installed (well, duh)
2) pop in original F8 x86_64 DVD to avoid unnecessary downloads of
unchanged packages
3) cd to preferred download directory and run:
$ jigdo-lite http://jigdo.fedoraunity.org/templates/20071218/Fedora-Unity-20071218-8.jigdo
4) when asked, select image "13": Fedora-Unity-20071218-8-x86_64-DVD.iso
5) when prompted, enter mount point of original DVD

that's it -- that's all i wanted to know. does that look correct?
and why couldn't that have been written out on a single page
somewhere?

rday
--

================================================== ======================
Robert P. J. Day
Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry
Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA

http://crashcourse.ca
================================================== ======================

--
fedora-list mailing list
fedora-list@redhat.com
To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
 
Old 12-26-2007, 12:35 PM
"Robert P. J. Day"
 
Default how to jigdo download a fedora 8 re-spin in one easy step?

On Wed, 26 Dec 2007, Robert P. J. Day wrote:

> On Wed, 26 Dec 2007, Martin Marques wrote:
>
> > Nah, better use:
> >
> > http://fedorasolved.org/post-install-solutions/jigdo/
>
> putting together bits of info from various pages, here's what appears
> to be what i was looking for if i want a respin of F8 x86_64:
>
> 1) make sure jigdo is installed (well, duh)
> 2) pop in original F8 x86_64 DVD to avoid unnecessary downloads of
> unchanged packages
> 3) cd to preferred download directory and run:
> $ jigdo-lite http://jigdo.fedoraunity.org/templates/20071218/Fedora-Unity-20071218-8.jigdo
> 4) when asked, select image "13": Fedora-Unity-20071218-8-x86_64-DVD.iso
> 5) when prompted, enter mount point of original DVD
>
> that's it -- that's all i wanted to know. does that look correct?
> and why couldn't that have been written out on a single page
> somewhere?



by the way, the above is still not annoyance-free:

...
Files to scan: /media/Fedora 8 x86_64 DVD/ <--- my answer (tab completed)
Skipping object `/media/Fedora 8 x86_64 DVD/' (No such file or directory)
Found 0 of the 2584 files required by the template
Will not create image or temporary file - try again with different input files

-----------------------------------------------------------------
If you already have a previous version of the CD you are
downloading, jigdo can re-use files on the old CD that are also
present in the new image, and you do not need to download them
again. Mount the old CD ROM and enter the path it is mounted under
(e.g. `/mnt/cdrom').
Alternatively, just press enter if you want to start downloading
the remaining files.
Files to scan:
...

i'm guessing it's the spaces in the volume name that caused the
problem, as all i did was unmount and remount manually under /mnt and
the scanning is now proceeding nicely.

rday
--

================================================== ======================
Robert P. J. Day
Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry
Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA

http://crashcourse.ca
================================================== ======================

--
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Old 12-26-2007, 03:04 PM
Ed Greshko
 
Default how to jigdo download a fedora 8 re-spin in one easy step?

Robert P. J. Day wrote:

> by the way, the above is still not annoyance-free:

OK....

So, I gather from all of this that the existing documentation, links, and
whatever doesn't measure up to what you need or expect. Would that be a
fair summary?

Is the question then, how can documentation be improved for the average user?

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Old 12-26-2007, 03:52 PM
"Robert P. J. Day"
 
Default how to jigdo download a fedora 8 re-spin in one easy step?

On Thu, 27 Dec 2007, Ed Greshko wrote:

> Robert P. J. Day wrote:
>
> > by the way, the above is still not annoyance-free:
>
> OK....
>
> So, I gather from all of this that the existing documentation,
> links, and whatever doesn't measure up to what you need or expect.
> Would that be a fair summary?
>
> Is the question then, how can documentation be improved for the
> average user?

all i'm suggesting is that it took an inordinately long time to figure
out what should have been a two-minute exercise. i'm guessing that,
in most cases, readers aren't interested in a long-winded overview of
things -- they just want to know what commands to run to get
something done, which is all i wanted in the first place.

in short, what people might want is a fedora "cookbook" with tight,
concise recipes that just plain work, out of the box. if they choose
to read up later on the underlying operations, then that's their
choice.

rday
--
================================================== ======================
Robert P. J. Day
Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry
Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA

http://crashcourse.ca
================================================== ======================

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