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Old 12-24-2007, 01:59 PM
Vicki Stanfield
 
Default Volume discrepancy between tvtime and other apps

I am trying to understand why tvtime volume, adjusted to 100% with the
right arrow, is still quite low when compared to playing a video off a
web site in firefox or from a DVD with mplayer. Does anyone have any
idea why there would be such a disparity? I have looked at the tvtime
man page but don't see a setting to increase the volume other than the
right and left arrows. I am using Fedora 7 (tvtime--1.0.1-6).


Vicki

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Old 12-24-2007, 03:17 PM
"Mikkel L. Ellertson"
 
Default Volume discrepancy between tvtime and other apps

Vicki Stanfield wrote:
> I am trying to understand why tvtime volume, adjusted to 100% with the
> right arrow, is still quite low when compared to playing a video off a
> web site in firefox or from a DVD with mplayer. Does anyone have any
> idea why there would be such a disparity? I have looked at the tvtime
> man page but don't see a setting to increase the volume other than the
> right and left arrows. I am using Fedora 7 (tvtime--1.0.1-6).
>
> Vicki
>
Check to see what control it is changing. One easy way to tell is to
open up the mixer at the same time, and watch what control changes
when you adjust the volume. There is probably an option in tvtime to
select what control is used.

Mikkel
--

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for thou art crunchy and taste good with Ketchup!

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Old 12-24-2007, 03:33 PM
Gene Heskett
 
Default Volume discrepancy between tvtime and other apps

On Monday 24 December 2007, Vicki Stanfield wrote:
>I am trying to understand why tvtime volume, adjusted to 100% with the
>right arrow, is still quite low when compared to playing a video off a
>web site in firefox or from a DVD with mplayer. Does anyone have any
>idea why there would be such a disparity? I have looked at the tvtime
>man page but don't see a setting to increase the volume other than the
>right and left arrows. I am using Fedora 7 (tvtime--1.0.1-6).
>
>Vicki

Most of these tv cards seem to have a very low audio output, I have mine
feeding the microphone input here, with the extra 20db gain switch turned on.
That helps a bunch. My card is a pcHDTV-3000. But I had a happauge that was
the same way, had to use the mic input with it too. Fortunately for me, the
Happauge front end died. It never was much of a tv card, veddy veddy poor
pix even with 60k microvolts at its input.

--
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
There *__is* no such thing as a civil engineer.

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Old 12-25-2007, 09:16 AM
Tim
 
Default Volume discrepancy between tvtime and other apps

On Mon, 2007-12-24 at 11:33 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
> It never was much of a tv card, veddy veddy poor pix even with 60k
> microvolts at its input.

What did you do, hang it off the tower? ;-)

--
[tim@bigblack ~]$ uname -ipr
2.6.23.1-10.fc7 i686 i386

Using FC 4, 5, 6 & 7, plus CentOS 5. Today, it's FC7.

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.
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Old 12-25-2007, 03:54 PM
Gene Heskett
 
Default Volume discrepancy between tvtime and other apps

On Tuesday 25 December 2007, Tim wrote:
>On Mon, 2007-12-24 at 11:33 -0500, Gene Heskett wrote:
>> It never was much of a tv card, veddy veddy poor pix even with 60k
>> microvolts at its input.
>
>What did you do, hang it off the tower? ;-)

Close enough Tim, I'm only about 2 air miles away from 100k erp on ch5, but
that was in fact the signal levels I measured at the card input from a dish
receiver about 8 feet of cable away. And it was still snowy on the hauppauge
card. Bin time, it also picked up all sorts of digital noises in the
computer, doing that directly from the first install gitgo. My pcHDTV-3000
card is 100x the card the hauppauge ever was, the only obvious fly in the
cream is that due to the much more selective filtering of the digital cards
if stages, the NTSC analogue performance suffers from a very noticeable group
delay that the same signal on ch6, our digital channel doesn't suffer from.
Most cable systems are as bad, so its a shrug.

--
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Are you tired of being a crash test dummy for Microsoft? Discover Linux.

-- Gareth Barnard

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Old 12-25-2007, 05:24 PM
Vicki Stanfield
 
Default Volume discrepancy between tvtime and other apps

Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:

Vicki Stanfield wrote:


I am trying to understand why tvtime volume, adjusted to 100% with the
right arrow, is still quite low when compared to playing a video off a
web site in firefox or from a DVD with mplayer. Does anyone have any
idea why there would be such a disparity? I have looked at the tvtime
man page but don't see a setting to increase the volume other than the
right and left arrows. I am using Fedora 7 (tvtime--1.0.1-6).

Vicki



Check to see what control it is changing. One easy way to tell is to
open up the mixer at the same time, and watch what control changes
when you adjust the volume. There is probably an option in tvtime to
select what control is used.

Mikkel

It is the line in. But I don't see an option to fix it. I think it might
be that this tvcard is not going to output enough volume. I wouldn't
mind so much, but it is quite jarring when I get an IM or have some
other thing with normal volume kick off. That makes me wonder. Does
anyone have a decent tv card that sends sufficient volume?


Vicki

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Old 12-25-2007, 05:39 PM
Gene Heskett
 
Default Volume discrepancy between tvtime and other apps

On Tuesday 25 December 2007, Vicki Stanfield wrote:
>Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
>> Vicki Stanfield wrote:
>>> I am trying to understand why tvtime volume, adjusted to 100% with the
>>> right arrow, is still quite low when compared to playing a video off a
>>> web site in firefox or from a DVD with mplayer. Does anyone have any
>>> idea why there would be such a disparity? I have looked at the tvtime
>>> man page but don't see a setting to increase the volume other than the
>>> right and left arrows. I am using Fedora 7 (tvtime--1.0.1-6).
>>>
>>> Vicki
>>
>> Check to see what control it is changing. One easy way to tell is to
>> open up the mixer at the same time, and watch what control changes
>> when you adjust the volume. There is probably an option in tvtime to
>> select what control is used.
>>
>> Mikkel
>
>It is the line in. But I don't see an option to fix it. I think it might
>be that this tvcard is not going to output enough volume. I wouldn't
>mind so much, but it is quite jarring when I get an IM or have some
>other thing with normal volume kick off. That makes me wonder. Does
>anyone have a decent tv card that sends sufficient volume?
>
>Vicki

Move it to the mic in if that's not otherwise occupied Vicki, that's the std
cure. And enable the extra 20db gain on that channel too. If that's not
available, then an off board preamp could be used but I'd hate that bit of
gingerbread myself. YMMV of course.

--
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Caution: Keep out of reach of children.

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Old 12-26-2007, 04:42 AM
Tim
 
Default Volume discrepancy between tvtime and other apps

On Tue, 2007-12-25 at 13:24 -0500, Vicki Stanfield wrote:
> I think it might be that this tvcard is not going to output enough
> volume. I wouldn't mind so much, but it is quite jarring when I get an
> IM or have some other thing with normal volume kick off.

I have a MPEG decoder card that has a very low volume output, and many
stand-alone DVD players have low outputs. Conversely most early CD
players had very high outputs (almost broadcast standard levels, though
not broadcast standard quality).

This sort of thing is not helped much by there being NO standard level
for line level signals in the domestic world. I've come across
equipment that has ranged from about as low as 20 mV up to around 2 V,
and that's quite a range. Each manufacturer does whatever they want,
and they're not even consistent across their own range of gear. As far
as they're concerned, that's what the volume knob is for, and they don't
care about the problems associated with connecting two pieces of gear
together that expect different levels.

In the broadcasting world, there are standards. And they're needed
since interconnection and simultaneous use of different gear are prime
requirements. A "line level" signal is generally +8 dBm (older) or +4
dBu (more recently), for nominal signal levels. That gives you easily
usable signal levels that can be used between almost any pieces of
equipment, most can accomodate either fairly easily. Though that got
messed up with the digital age, mostly thanks to headroom issues.

As Gene said, you may have to abuse the microphone input (though I'd be
inclined to think you'd want the extra mic gain to be OFF, not on).
Perhaps the gear was designed to be run into a mic socket, or for it to
not cause any damage if it were. There's also the possibility that the
TV card has its own output level control, and that it's currently set
quite low.

--
[tim@bigblack ~]$ uname -ipr
2.6.23.1-10.fc7 i686 i386

Using FC 4, 5, 6 & 7, plus CentOS 5. Today, it's FC7.

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.
I read messages from the public lists.



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Old 12-26-2007, 04:58 AM
Tim
 
Default Volume discrepancy between tvtime and other apps

Receiving 60,000 V...

Gene Heskett:
> And it was still snowy on the hauppauge card. Bin time, it also
> picked up all sorts of digital noises in the computer, doing that
> directly from the first install gitgo.

That sort of thing has been my experience with all digital receivers
(radio or television) - lots of noise. They're noisy in themselves,
sensitive to noise, and/or emit noise and upset other equipment (so you
need high-isolation splitters to feed an antenna to more than one
receiver). And since the beginning of digital TV transmissions around
here, just about all analogue signals have suffered. We used to have
just six TV stations, four of them on the VHF band and two on UHF, with
all repeated once more further up the UHF band. Now, we've got several
more re-transmissions over the VHF and UHF band, and they interfere with
each other. I don't think they planned digital TV very well at all.

Years ago I bought a cheap analogue TV card, a FlyVideo'98, and I've
never seen a crapper product. It had what'd have to be the world's
worst tuner, though my Liteon DVD recorder comes close. And the world's
crashiest drivers, you were almost guarenteed to lock up Windows if you
tried to use the card. It didn't fare much better with Linux, the card
would lock up occassionally, there was no way to get it to switch into a
PAL mode, and it wouldn't use the S-Video socket properly.

At the time, and for a while later, various TV card reviews in magazines
didn't really have any kind words to say for any cards currently
available on our market.

--
[tim@bigblack ~]$ uname -ipr
2.6.23.1-10.fc7 i686 i386

Using FC 4, 5, 6 & 7, plus CentOS 5. Today, it's FC7.

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored.
I read messages from the public lists.



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Old 12-26-2007, 07:03 AM
Gene Heskett
 
Default Volume discrepancy between tvtime and other apps

On Wednesday 26 December 2007, Tim wrote:
>Receiving 60,000 V...
>
>Gene Heskett:
>> And it was still snowy on the hauppauge card. Bin time, it also
>> picked up all sorts of digital noises in the computer, doing that
>> directly from the first install gitgo.
>
>That sort of thing has been my experience with all digital receivers
>(radio or television) - lots of noise. They're noisy in themselves,
>sensitive to noise, and/or emit noise and upset other equipment (so you
>need high-isolation splitters to feed an antenna to more than one
>receiver). And since the beginning of digital TV transmissions around
>here, just about all analogue signals have suffered. We used to have
>just six TV stations, four of them on the VHF band and two on UHF, with
>all repeated once more further up the UHF band. Now, we've got several
>more re-transmissions over the VHF and UHF band, and they interfere with
>each other. I don't think they planned digital TV very well at all.
>
>Years ago I bought a cheap analogue TV card, a FlyVideo'98, and I've
>never seen a crapper product. It had what'd have to be the world's
>worst tuner, though my Liteon DVD recorder comes close. And the world's
>crashiest drivers, you were almost guarenteed to lock up Windows if you
>tried to use the card. It didn't fare much better with Linux, the card
>would lock up occassionally, there was no way to get it to switch into a
>PAL mode, and it wouldn't use the S-Video socket properly.
>
>At the time, and for a while later, various TV card reviews in magazines
>didn't really have any kind words to say for any cards currently
>available on our market.

I don't think the situation has improved all that much either. I pick up
boxes and read the fine print at Circuit City, but they often wind up back on
the shelf with me making involuntary motions of blowing on fingers to cool
them off.

However, this pcHDTV-3000 card sees anything the other 3 receivers I have here
can see, this with an LD antenna & rotator on the roof that's split 4 ways.
Its not great but its watchable, ch 24, WNPB, about 80 air miles, is as good
on it as on the other 3 receivers.

But our 'starter' power level digital signal on ch 6 is invisible until we
shut the analog on ch 5 off for maintenance, 5's adjacent channel noises and
the difference in erp make that pretty much a foregone conclusion though.

At the changeover point in 2009, we intend to use the digital as a driver for
the TF-3A to make our digital power of 10KW average. No idea if it will pass
muster though, and will need a new ch6 mask filter rated for that power level
for the whole things output. The TF-3A can do it easily, its power tube is
rated at 75KW sync tip, but we may have to buy/build another IPA stage as its
not particularly high gain. I should try it some night at 3AM for long
enough to make some measurements just for grins.

Here in a market of this size & ranking, things get done on the cheap if at
all possible. But then you've been to this dog & pony show yourself, so that
shouldn't surprise you. Management thinks they can buy that mask filter
with a phone call and a check with delivery Tuesday, so they're not listening
when I say it should be on order now because of manufacturing lead times.

Nothing to see here, move along now...

--
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
If the human brain were so simple that we could understand it,
we would be so simple we couldn't.

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