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Old 12-23-2007, 07:11 AM
"Tod Merley"
 
Default Need real beginners kernel exploration advice !?

On Dec 22, 2007 1:21 PM, William Case <billlinux@rogers.com> wrote:
> Hi;
>
> I think the time has come for me to start exploring the Linux kernel in
> some depth. I have installed kvm, qemu and git. It seems to all be
> present and working. I have reviewed the kvm, qemu and git sites about
> how to start using those programs???
>
> I need a copy of Fedora 8-x64 kernel binary and source plus the kernel
> documentation. There used to be a Fedora source page which I can no
> longer find, at least not anything newer than 2006. All the kernel
> binaries that I can see on the Fedora site are rpms. I don't want to
> take the chance that these may get installed over my existing system.
>
> I want to download or copy the kernel to a new user I have created for
> this purpose. I want to do it in such a way that this new downloaded or
> copied kernel has no chance of interfering with my existing system.
>
> What libraries do I have to make sure that I also get for this purpose?
>
> I don't think I need in depth details, but pointers to the locations of
> the various Fedora binaries and sources would be helpful.
>
> Any experienced advice that helps me get off on the right foot safely
> would be gratefully appreciated.
>
> --
> Regards Bill
>
> --
> fedora-list mailing list
> fedora-list@redhat.com
> To unsubscribe: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-list
>

Hi Bill,

I am not what you want (no experience kernel building) but no one has
stepped up to the plate for you so I will try, I share your interest!

I think the only "safe" environment to learn kernel building is a
cheap machine. I think I would learn the basics on a simpler machine
(i586 or 686?). You can often get these free or cheap if you look
around.

I have downloaded the development packages through add/remove
software. I know that does not "create" anything and gives me a place
to look at documentation and make files.

I have also downloaded git, KVM, and qemu from the package manager.

Other than that, I am reading from these links:

# Dated tutorial on what you want to do I think
http://www.howtoforge.com/kernel_compilation_fedora?topic=306338

# Includes lots of resources
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_kernel

# The classic site for Kernel Newbie
http://kernelnewbies.org/

# Base site
http://www.kernel.org/

# Free Downlodable Book by Kroah (kinda hard to use)
http://www.kroah.com/lkn/

#git tutorial
http://linux.yyz.us/git-howto.html

# Ubuntu environment but looks to be a good tutorial
http://www.howtoforge.com/using-kvm-on-ubuntu-gutsy-gibbon

# A KVM wiki and documentation
http://kvm.qumranet.com/kvmwiki
http://kvm.qumranet.com/kvmwiki/HOWTO
http://kvm.qumranet.com/kvmwiki/Documents

Have Fun!

Tod

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Old 12-23-2007, 07:50 AM
Leonid Podolny
 
Default Need real beginners kernel exploration advice !?

William Case wrote:

Hi;

I think the time has come for me to start exploring the Linux kernel in
some depth. I have installed kvm, qemu and git. It seems to all be
present and working. I have reviewed the kvm, qemu and git sites about
how to start using those programs???



William, hi,

I'm not sure what you mean by "start exploring the Linux kernel". I
assume that by that you mean "start developing in kernel environment"
and not "compiling Linux kernel" (the latter doesn't require exploring
as such).
You already have kernel binary installed -- /boot/vmlinuz symlink points
to it. As to sources, you should download the source RPM (src.rpm) and
install it, just like regular rpm. Then, do

rpmbuild -bp /usr/src/redhat/SPECS/kernel.spec
and it will put a vanilla kernel in /usr/src/redhat/BUILD/kernel-2.6.23/
vanilla and Fedora kernel in
/usr/src/redhat/BUILD/kernel-2.6.23/linux-2.6.23.x86_64/


Good luck,

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Old 12-23-2007, 08:11 AM
"Robert P. J. Day"
 
Default Need real beginners kernel exploration advice !?

On Sun, 23 Dec 2007, Leonid Podolny wrote:

> William Case wrote:
> > Hi;
> >
> > I think the time has come for me to start exploring the Linux kernel in
> > some depth. I have installed kvm, qemu and git. It seems to all be
> > present and working. I have reviewed the kvm, qemu and git sites about
> > how to start using those programs???
> >
>
> William, hi,
>
> I'm not sure what you mean by "start exploring the Linux kernel". I
> assume that by that you mean "start developing in kernel
> environment" and not "compiling Linux kernel" (the latter doesn't
> require exploring as such). You already have kernel binary installed
> -- /boot/vmlinuz symlink points to it. As to sources, you should
> download the source RPM (src.rpm) and install it, just like regular
> rpm. Then, do rpmbuild -bp /usr/src/redhat/SPECS/kernel.spec and it
> will put a vanilla kernel in /usr/src/redhat/BUILD/kernel-2.6.23/
> vanilla and Fedora kernel in
> /usr/src/redhat/BUILD/kernel-2.6.23/linux-2.6.23.x86_64/

i would instead recommend grabbing a copy of the kernel source tree
and putting it in your home directory somewhere, so you can do
everything up to (but not including) installing a new kernel as a
regular user.

rday

================================================== ======================
Robert P. J. Day
Linux Consulting, Training and Annoying Kernel Pedantry
Waterloo, Ontario, CANADA

http://crashcourse.ca
================================================== ======================

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Old 12-23-2007, 02:10 PM
William Case
 
Default Need real beginners kernel exploration advice !?

Thanks Tod;

All great resources which I have bookmarked and will use.

On Sun, 2007-12-23 at 00:11 -0800, Tod Merley wrote:
> On Dec 22, 2007 1:21 PM, William Case <billlinux@rogers.com> wrote:
> > Hi;
> >
> > I need a copy of Fedora 8-x64 kernel binary and source plus the kernel
> > documentation. There used to be a Fedora source page which I can no
> > longer find, at least not anything newer than 2006.
> > --
This may be self-induced confusion, but I thought I remembered a Fedora
source repository from two or three years ago.
http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/5/source/SRPMS/

When I go to the FedoraWiki I cannot find a repository or site for F8
source rpms.

The howtoforge.com site only makes reference to the FC5 and FC6 kernel
srpms. I have googled and found no Fedora 8 source repository.

Should I get my source (tree?) from the kernel developers (kernel.org)
or does Fedora have a source source? If so where is it? I would like to
start with a source copy of what my system is already using.

Or, am I searching using the wrong search criteria?
Or, do I have everything all mixed up?

[snip]
> I have also downloaded git, KVM, and qemu from the package manager.
>
> Other than that, I am reading from these links:
>
> # Dated tutorial on what you want to do I think
> http://www.howtoforge.com/kernel_compilation_fedora?topic=306338
>
> # Includes lots of resources
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_kernel
>
> # The classic site for Kernel Newbie
> http://kernelnewbies.org/
>
> # Base site
> http://www.kernel.org/
>
> # Free Downlodable Book by Kroah (kinda hard to use)
> http://www.kroah.com/lkn/
>
> #git tutorial
> http://linux.yyz.us/git-howto.html
>
> # Ubuntu environment but looks to be a good tutorial
> http://www.howtoforge.com/using-kvm-on-ubuntu-gutsy-gibbon
>
> # A KVM wiki and documentation
> http://kvm.qumranet.com/kvmwiki
> http://kvm.qumranet.com/kvmwiki/HOWTO
> http://kvm.qumranet.com/kvmwiki/Documents
>
>
--
Regards Bill

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Old 12-23-2007, 02:33 PM
Todd Zullinger
 
Default Need real beginners kernel exploration advice !?

William Case wrote:
> This may be self-induced confusion, but I thought I remembered a Fedora
> source repository from two or three years ago.
> http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/5/source/SRPMS/

The Fedora tree was reorganized when Core and Extras were merged. The
URLs for the release and update srpms are:

http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/releases/8/Everything/source/SRPMS/
http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/updates/8/SRPMS/

Of course, it's often easier to use yumdownloader from the yum-utils
package to download a srpm. There is a --source option in
yumdownloader that should get you the latest srpm of a given package.

> The howtoforge.com site only makes reference to the FC5 and FC6 kernel
> srpms. I have googled and found no Fedora 8 source repository.

Your google-fu is weak then.

> Should I get my source (tree?) from the kernel developers (kernel.org)
> or does Fedora have a source source? If so where is it? I would like to
> start with a source copy of what my system is already using.

The Fedora release notes have a section on the kernel and they point
you to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/CustomKernel for info on how
to build a custom kernel. This includes how to download the kernel
srpm and expand it into a full source tree that you can poke around
in.

--
Todd OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Nothing says, "Obey me!" like a bloody head on a fence post.
-- Stewie Griffin

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Old 12-23-2007, 03:23 PM
William Case
 
Default Need real beginners kernel exploration advice !?

Hi Todd;
On Sun, 2007-12-23 at 10:33 -0500, Todd Zullinger wrote:

> Your google-fu is weak then.
>
On some days it really is weak. I must of spent a couple of hours
looking for those sources using as search criteria "Fedora 8 source" and
many variations thereof. Thanks for finding them.

Shouldn't the Wiki have an obvious link to them? (a rhetorical question)

> The Fedora release notes have a section on the kernel and they point
> you to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/CustomKernel for info on how
> to build a custom kernel. This includes how to download the kernel
> srpm and expand it into a full source tree that you can poke around
> in.

I'll be damned, the link above is obvious. I don't know how I missed
it, but it has most of the things I wanted to know.

No explanation, I even went to bed early last night. Oh well.

--
Regards Bill

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Old 12-23-2007, 09:43 PM
"Tod Merley"
 
Default Need real beginners kernel exploration advice !?

On Dec 23, 2007 7:10 AM, William Case <billlinux@rogers.com> wrote:
> Thanks Tod;
>
> All great resources which I have bookmarked and will use.
>
> On Sun, 2007-12-23 at 00:11 -0800, Tod Merley wrote:

> > > --
> This may be self-induced confusion, but I thought I remembered a Fedora
> source repository from two or three years ago.
> http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/core/5/source/SRPMS/
>
> When I go to the FedoraWiki I cannot find a repository or site for F8
> source rpms.
>
> The howtoforge.com site only makes reference to the FC5 and FC6 kernel
> srpms. I have googled and found no Fedora 8 source repository.
>
> Should I get my source (tree?) from the kernel developers (kernel.org)
> or does Fedora have a source source? If so where is it? I would like to
> start with a source copy of what my system is already using.
>
> Or, am I searching using the wrong search criteria?
> Or, do I have everything all mixed up?
>
>
> Regards Bill
>

Hi Bill!

You are doing just fine. I believe the Kernel has a rather steep
learning curve.

Me, so far I have taken the gui way out and used Applications >
Add/Remove Software. When Package Manager comes up I hit the "Search"
tab and enter "kernel" in the search window. After seeing that the
"All Packages" button is hit I click "Search". I have found that I
need to take the time to compare the version numbers and type of
kernel as I select the development package for the kernel I have. It
also shows me special "debug", Physical Address Extension (PAE), and
Xen (an efficient Virtualization hypervisor) Kernels built for my FC7
version. I also see ketchup (a Kernel source switch/update tool) and
can find git, kvm, and qemu if I place them in the search window.

I did this mostly to help you. I do plan to get into the Kernel -
about a year from now Lord willing. Right now I am decifering the
/etc/init.d files. I want to clearly understand the enviornment.

>From Wikipedia:

# January 25, 1999 - Linux 2.2.0 was released (1,800,847 lines of code).
# December 18, 1999 - IBM mainframe patches for 2.2.13 were published,
allowing Linux to be used on enterprise-class machines.
# January 4, 2001 - Linux 2.4.0 was released (3,377,902 lines of code).
# December 17, 2003 - Linux 2.6.0 was released (5,929,913 lines of code).

I would guess we are well over six million lines of code just for the
Kernel now!?

May God give us strength!

Tod

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Old 12-23-2007, 09:47 PM
"Tod Merley"
 
Default Need real beginners kernel exploration advice !?

On Dec 23, 2007 7:33 AM, Todd Zullinger <tmz@pobox.com> wrote:
> William Case wrote:

> http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/releases/8/Everything/source/SRPMS/
> http://download.fedora.redhat.com/pub/fedora/linux/updates/8/SRPMS/
>
> Of course, it's often easier to use yumdownloader from the yum-utils
> package to download a srpm. There is a --source option in
> yumdownloader that should get you the latest srpm of a given package.
>
> > The howtoforge.com site only makes reference to the FC5 and FC6 kernel
> > srpms. I have googled and found no Fedora 8 source repository.
>
> Your google-fu is weak then.
>
> > Should I get my source (tree?) from the kernel developers (kernel.org)
> > or does Fedora have a source source? If so where is it? I would like to
> > start with a source copy of what my system is already using.
>
> The Fedora release notes have a section on the kernel and they point
> you to http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Docs/CustomKernel for info on how
> to build a custom kernel. This includes how to download the kernel
> srpm and expand it into a full source tree that you can poke around
> in.
>
> --
> Todd OpenPGP -> KeyID: 0xBEAF0CE3 | URL: www.pobox.com/~tmz/pgp
>

Hi Todd!

You are Google-Fu Master!

Regards!

Tod

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