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Gene Heskett 12-23-2007 01:03 AM

dual booting fc6, f8
 
Greetings;

In attempting to come up with a grub.conf which will boot either version of
the os, I kept running into not being able to boot f8 from anything but a
fedora kernel.

I have successfully switched the kernel.org 2.6.24-rc6 kernel such that all
hard drives are now /dev/sd*.

But I figured that would probably need an edit of /boot/grub/device.map, but
before I did that, I thought I'd run 'grub-install --recheck /dev/sda' sda
being the new name for the ide0,0 drive, the old /dev/hda.

>From my read of the info page, I assumed it would not write anything, but just
check what was there for errors. But it did
rewrite /dev/hda1/grub/device.map, placing fd0 above the older assignments,
and appending the new sata drive below as /dev/sdc, and replaced a now
missing FC2 install on what was /dev/hdb with the /amandatapes drive which
was formerly /dev/hdd. There is currently no drive on the middle connector
of the first ide cable.

Confusing ain't it?

So, thinking that I needed to re-edit my grub.conf to set the f8 drive as
'root (hd2,0)', I did so. But now none of the f8 boot stanzas work, error 15,
file not found.

So I guess I don't understand how grub works as well as I thought. The info
pages might tell me, but it seems the only way to read them is backwards as
once you've gone down a tree to read something, there seems to be only one
way to back up, using the backspace key, but you never get back to the main
menu so its easier to 'q'uit it and restart it, but that screws with ones
train of thought till not even 2 more cups of coffee makes it make sense.

The other ugly thought is that my bios doesn't see the sata drive (sdc) at
all, and the couple of times I made it boot to f8, I had to move all the boot
files to /dev/hda1, but specify /dev/VolGroup01/LogVol00 in the kernel
argument line, but that seems to have quit working too.

What is the usual scenario here?

Should I do an hd assignment swap and then chainload to the sata drive? But,
if the bios can't see it, I'd have to assume grub cannot either at that stage
of the boot.

Or should I just resign myself to having to maintain a boot partition on an
pata drive just so the system can even find its bootstrap files? The
achilles heel there is that its only a 99 meg partition.

That would allow me to use that 200 megs for a dos partition, but what good is
that if the bios can't find it... Sigh.

My thanks to all that have read this far.

--
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
He who laughs last hasn't been told the terrible truth.

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"Mikkel L. Ellertson" 12-23-2007 01:35 AM

dual booting fc6, f8
 
Gene Heskett wrote:
> Greetings;
>
> In attempting to come up with a grub.conf which will boot either version of
> the os, I kept running into not being able to boot f8 from anything but a
> fedora kernel.
>
> I have successfully switched the kernel.org 2.6.24-rc6 kernel such that all
> hard drives are now /dev/sd*.
>
> But I figured that would probably need an edit of /boot/grub/device.map, but
> before I did that, I thought I'd run 'grub-install --recheck /dev/sda' sda
> being the new name for the ide0,0 drive, the old /dev/hda.
>
>>From my read of the info page, I assumed it would not write anything, but just
> check what was there for errors. But it did
> rewrite /dev/hda1/grub/device.map, placing fd0 above the older assignments,
> and appending the new sata drive below as /dev/sdc, and replaced a now
> missing FC2 install on what was /dev/hdb with the /amandatapes drive which
> was formerly /dev/hdd. There is currently no drive on the middle connector
> of the first ide cable.
>
> Confusing ain't it?
>
> So, thinking that I needed to re-edit my grub.conf to set the f8 drive as
> 'root (hd2,0)', I did so. But now none of the f8 boot stanzas work, error 15,
> file not found.
>
Unless you have 3 hard drives that the BIOS sees, this should still
be 'root (hd1,0)'. This tells Grub to use the second BIOS drive,
first partition.

> So I guess I don't understand how grub works as well as I thought. The info
> pages might tell me, but it seems the only way to read them is backwards as
> once you've gone down a tree to read something, there seems to be only one
> way to back up, using the backspace key, but you never get back to the main
> menu so its easier to 'q'uit it and restart it, but that screws with ones
> train of thought till not even 2 more cups of coffee makes it make sense.
>
Try using pinfo, and the arrow keys.

> The other ugly thought is that my bios doesn't see the sata drive (sdc) at
> all, and the couple of times I made it boot to f8, I had to move all the boot
> files to /dev/hda1, but specify /dev/VolGroup01/LogVol00 in the kernel
> argument line, but that seems to have quit working too.
>
The thing to keep in mind is that Grub uses the BIOS for all its
drive access. So if the BIOS can not access a drive, then Grub can
not access it. The Linux designation of a drive does not matter to
Grub. Only the BIOS designation matters.

Mikkel
--

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for thou art crunchy and taste good with Ketchup!

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Gene Heskett 12-23-2007 03:45 AM

dual booting fc6, f8
 
On Saturday 22 December 2007, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
>Gene Heskett wrote:
>> Greetings;
>>
>> In attempting to come up with a grub.conf which will boot either version
>> of the os, I kept running into not being able to boot f8 from anything but
>> a fedora kernel.
>>
>> I have successfully switched the kernel.org 2.6.24-rc6 kernel such that
>> all hard drives are now /dev/sd*.
>>
>> But I figured that would probably need an edit of /boot/grub/device.map,
>> but before I did that, I thought I'd run 'grub-install --recheck /dev/sda'
>> sda being the new name for the ide0,0 drive, the old /dev/hda.
>>
>>>From my read of the info page, I assumed it would not write anything, but
>> just check what was there for errors. But it did
>> rewrite /dev/hda1/grub/device.map, placing fd0 above the older
>> assignments, and appending the new sata drive below as /dev/sdc, and
>> replaced a now missing FC2 install on what was /dev/hdb with the
>> /amandatapes drive which was formerly /dev/hdd. There is currently no
>> drive on the middle connector of the first ide cable.
>>
>> Confusing ain't it?
>>
>> So, thinking that I needed to re-edit my grub.conf to set the f8 drive as
>> 'root (hd2,0)', I did so. But now none of the f8 boot stanzas work, error
>> 15, file not found.
>
>Unless you have 3 hard drives that the BIOS sees, this should still
>be 'root (hd1,0)'. This tells Grub to use the second BIOS drive,
>first partition.

That's what I thought, but the 2nd bios drive is in fact a 350GB,
on ide cable 1, not 0, middle connector, so it would for ata style
access, be /dev/hdd, and there is no /boot partition on it, a gig
of swap & 20 GB of unused /var2, & the rest /dev/hdd3, is all for
amanda to use. Its labeled, so it can show up anywhere in the ide
chain and be found ok. There is a dvdwriter on /dev/hdc's ide1 end
cable position. The bios itself, does not see this added sata card,
a vmlinuz/initrd combo must be loaded from one of the bios visible
drives, which makes the sata drive visible. Booted to fc6/2.6.24-rc6,
a df looks like this:

[root@coyote mnt]# df
Filesystem 1K-blocks Used Available Use% Mounted on
/dev/mapper/VolGroup00-LogVol00
149186740 82962776 58523484 59% / (was hda3 '/')
/dev/sda1 101086 62710 33157 66% /boot (was hda1 '/root')
tmpfs 518076 0 518076 0% /dev/shm
/dev/sdb2 9621880 152692 8980412 2% /mnt/var (was hdd2 '/var2')
/dev/sdb3 297068936 214856616 67122064 77% /amandatapes (was hdd3 '/amandatapes')
/dev/mapper/VolGroup01-LogVol00
376265916 65989744 290854580 19% /mnt/f8slash (is sdc2)
/dev/sdc1 194442 31652 152751 18% /mnt/bootf8 (is sdc1 "/boot1"

So we have drives sca, sdb, and sdc (the sata drive on a via raid card)

But when booted by the above mechanism, using a fedora kernel to f8,
the drive order is scrambled, with the now sdc becoming sda, hda becoming
sdb and what was hdd is now sdc.

>> So I guess I don't understand how grub works as well as I thought. The
>> info pages might tell me, but it seems the only way to read them is
>> backwards as once you've gone down a tree to read something, there seems
>> to be only one way to back up, using the backspace key, but you never get
>> back to the main menu so its easier to 'q'uit it and restart it, but that
>> screws with ones train of thought till not even 2 more cups of coffee
>> makes it make sense.
>
>Try using pinfo, and the arrow keys.

Thanks. I could learn to hate either without much prompting.
>
>> The other ugly thought is that my bios doesn't see the sata drive (sdc) at
>> all, and the couple of times I made it boot to f8, I had to move all the
>> boot files to /dev/hda1, but specify /dev/VolGroup01/LogVol00 in the
>> kernel argument line, but that seems to have quit working too.
>
>The thing to keep in mind is that Grub uses the BIOS for all its
>drive access. So if the BIOS can not access a drive, then Grub can
>not access it. The Linux designation of a drive does not matter to
>Grub. Only the BIOS designation matters.

That's good info, but brings up a question: Has the situation with
disk druid been alleviated or does it still have a mind of its own?
I'd like to tell it to use the ide drives first partition as its /boot
partition, which would immediately solve all that, but the last time
I tried such a trick, and I didn't have the format partition box checked,
it rewrote the partition table without the rest of a 160GB drives 5
other partitions. By-by 120GB of data I had to pull off real dds2 tapes
at the time, took about a week and a near divorce.

Humm that brings up another question, of what use is
/boot/grub/device.map file then? The 'grub-install --recheck'
re-wrote that file WITH the linux visible sata drive, like this:
(hd0) /dev/sda
(hd1) /dev/sdb
(hd2) /dev/sdc

And with an fd0 entry as the first line I've since removed.

If the bios can't see sdc, that last entry serves no usefull purpose
and the --recheck code needs fixed, its buggier than a 10 day old
deer carcass in August.

DD has bit me one way or the other every time I get in the same room
with a copy of it.

This time I told it to use only the new sata drive and it actually
obeyed my wishes, a first I should probably go paint on an interstate
overhead sign. Right now f8 is screwed a bit, I can't install fedora
kernel srcs so I can use the nvidia drivers installer (they aren't gpg
keyed), and it won't boot to f8 using this kernel because the drive
order is scrambled when compared to a fedora kernels find order.
Obviously there is some build option I have enabled that seems to favor
finding the ide drives and enumerating them first. But from the
response to questions involving that, I have to assume there are
no previous tracks in the snow to follow. Perhaps we will figure it
out, in which case this rambling thread may be of future use to someone.

As I've already copied 50GB of data, I'd druther not re-install,
but I think that's what its going to come to yet, and that will waste
another week by the time I let it update itself and recopy my data,
plus a touch ./autorelabel after I do, that's around 2 hours just
for that I found earlier this evening.

Many thanks Mikkel, and to anyone else who wants to jump in here
with pointers to helpfull info.

>Mikkel

Also, for those who celebrate it, Merry Christmas!

--
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
New Hampshire law forbids you to tap your feet, nod your head, or in
any way keep time to the music in a tavern, restaurant, or cafe.

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John Summerfield 12-23-2007 11:29 AM

dual booting fc6, f8
 
Gene Heskett wrote:

So I guess I don't understand how grub works as well as I thought. The info
pages might tell me, but it seems the only way to read them is backwards as
once you've gone down a tree to read something, there seems to be only one
way to back up, using the backspace key, but you never get back to the main
menu so its easier to 'q'uit it and restart it, but that screws with ones
train of thought till not even 2 more cups of coffee makes it make sense.


The other ugly thought is that my bios doesn't see the sata drive (sdc) at
all, and the couple of times I made it boot to f8, I had to move all the boot
files to /dev/hda1, but specify /dev/VolGroup01/LogVol00 in the kernel
argument line, but that seems to have quit working too.


What is the usual scenario here?

Should I do an hd assignment swap and then chainload to the sata drive? But,
if the bios can't see it, I'd have to assume grub cannot either at that stage
of the boot.


Or should I just resign myself to having to maintain a boot partition on an
pata drive just so the system can even find its bootstrap files? The
achilles heel there is that its only a 99 meg partition.


That would allow me to use that 200 megs for a dos partition, but what good is
that if the bios can't find it... Sigh.


My thanks to all that have read this far.



When you install a new kernel, and this applies to rpm-based systems and
to deb-based system, _something_ automatically updates the grub's
menu.lst (the "correct" name for the file containing the menu) for you.


the details differ between vendors, but it can only work if the system
you're running on can see where is kernels are, and importantly, where
the menu is.


My and large, this makes use of a single menu for all Linuxes (and maybe
other *xes) impractical.


What I do is create a menu for each, each as if it's the only OS on the
computer.


Here is a fragment from an actual system i have that's configured to
boot from two drives:


title Scientific Linux SL (2.6.18-8.1.15.el5xen)
root (hd0,0)
kernel /xen.gz-2.6.18-8.1.15.el5
module /vmlinuz-2.6.18-8.1.15.el5xen ro
root=/dev/VolGroup00/LogVol00

module /initrd-2.6.18-8.1.15.el5xen.img
savedefault
title Other
rootnoverify (hd1,0)
chainloader +1
savedefault
[root@numbat ~]#

The "other" stanza boots the boot record from the _first partition_ on
the second disk. More usual is booting the MBR:


title Other
rootnoverify (hd1)
chainloader +1

the result is that you can switch between different bootloaders on
different drives. It worked for a drive on which I installed two RHEL5
betas, SLES10 and opensuse10, it worked years ago when I had Darwin
installed (before Macintels), and I would expect it to work for every
disk the BIOS can see.


Normally I'd link to every bootable system from every bootable system.

For more details
pinfo grub

--

Cheers
John

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Timothy Murphy 12-23-2007 01:50 PM

dual booting fc6, f8
 
Gene Heskett wrote:

> But I figured that would probably need an edit of /boot/grub/device.map,
> but before I did that, I thought I'd run 'grub-install --recheck /dev/sda'
> sda being the new name for the ide0,0 drive, the old /dev/hda.

There is a fairly strong warning now not to use --recheck , I think.

> So I guess I don't understand how grub works as well as I thought. The
> info pages might tell me, but it seems the only way to read them is
> backwards as once you've gone down a tree to read something, there seems
> to be only one way to back up, using the backspace key, but you never get
> back to the main menu so its easier to 'q'uit it and restart it, but that
> screws with ones train of thought till not even 2 more cups of coffee
> makes it make sense.

I really think it saves time in the long run
to learn how to use grub interactively.
It's not well-documented, in my opinion,
but it is not too difficult.
Basically you have to type in the commands
that appear in the grub stanza:
grub> root (hd1,0)
grub> kernel /vmlinuz...
grub> initrd /initrd...
grub> boot

grub will try to finish /vmlinuz etc if you press TAB,
so you can see at once if you are in the right place.


--
Timothy Murphy
e-mail (<80k only): tim /at/ birdsnest.maths.tcd.ie
tel: +353-86-2336090, +353-1-2842366
s-mail: School of Mathematics, Trinity College, Dublin 2, Ireland

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"Mikkel L. Ellertson" 12-23-2007 01:56 PM

dual booting fc6, f8
 
Gene Heskett wrote:
> On Saturday 22 December 2007, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
>> Unless you have 3 hard drives that the BIOS sees, this should still
>> be 'root (hd1,0)'. This tells Grub to use the second BIOS drive,
>> first partition.
>
> That's what I thought, but the 2nd bios drive is in fact a 350GB,
> on ide cable 1, not 0, middle connector, so it would for ata style
> access, be /dev/hdd, and there is no /boot partition on it, a gig
> of swap & 20 GB of unused /var2, & the rest /dev/hdd3, is all for
> amanda to use. Its labeled, so it can show up anywhere in the ide
> chain and be found ok. There is a dvdwriter on /dev/hdc's ide1 end
> cable position. The bios itself, does not see this added sata card,
> a vmlinuz/initrd combo must be loaded from one of the bios visible
> drives, which makes the sata drive visible. Booted to fc6/2.6.24-rc6,
> a df looks like this:
>
Because the BIOS does not see the drive, there is no hd2 as far as
Grub is concerned. The only way to fix that is a BIOS upgrade, or a
SATA controller with its own BIOS.

<--------------------[snip]------------>
>
> So we have drives sca, sdb, and sdc (the sata drive on a via raid card)
>
> But when booted by the above mechanism, using a fedora kernel to f8,
> the drive order is scrambled, with the now sdc becoming sda, hda becoming
> sdb and what was hdd is now sdc.
>
This is because of the order the drivers are loaded. The SATA drive
is on the first "SCSI" controller, and the PATA drives are on the
second "SCSI" controller. So the SATA controller is scanned forst
for drives, and then the PATA controller. Drive letters are assigned
in the order the drives are found.

>
> Humm that brings up another question, of what use is
> /boot/grub/device.map file then? The 'grub-install --recheck'
> re-wrote that file WITH the linux visible sata drive, like this:
> (hd0) /dev/sda
> (hd1) /dev/sdb
> (hd2) /dev/sdc
>
> And with an fd0 entry as the first line I've since removed.
>
> If the bios can't see sdc, that last entry serves no usefull purpose
> and the --recheck code needs fixed, its buggier than a 10 day old
> deer carcass in August.
>
The problem is that --recheck is only the best guess that Grub can
make from the information it has. Once the system has booted the OS,
there is no good way to determine the BIOS order of the drives. This
is why the warning about verifying that the drive map is correct.

With just about everything handled as SCSI drives now, there will be
some problems that will have to be worked out. Partition labels take
care of a lot of it by making drive order irrelevant, but you will
have to be even more careful using programs like fdisk and dd. Grub
will have a harder time guessing BIOS drive order, because the
system drive order is not tied to the BIOS order at all, and the
BIOS options for booting from other hard drives besides the first
one, and for booting from USB drives, results in the BIOS order
changing as well. The drive you tell the BIOS to boot from becomes
the first BIOS drive.

Mikkel
--

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for thou art crunchy and taste good with Ketchup!

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Gene Heskett 12-23-2007 03:16 PM

dual booting fc6, f8
 
On Sunday 23 December 2007, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
>Gene Heskett wrote:
>> On Saturday 22 December 2007, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
>>> Unless you have 3 hard drives that the BIOS sees, this should still
>>> be 'root (hd1,0)'. This tells Grub to use the second BIOS drive,
>>> first partition.
>>
>> That's what I thought, but the 2nd bios drive is in fact a 350GB,
>> on ide cable 1, not 0, middle connector, so it would for ata style
>> access, be /dev/hdd, and there is no /boot partition on it, a gig
>> of swap & 20 GB of unused /var2, & the rest /dev/hdd3, is all for
>> amanda to use. Its labeled, so it can show up anywhere in the ide
>> chain and be found ok. There is a dvdwriter on /dev/hdc's ide1 end
>> cable position. The bios itself, does not see this added sata card,
>> a vmlinuz/initrd combo must be loaded from one of the bios visible
>> drives, which makes the sata drive visible. Booted to fc6/2.6.24-rc6,
>> a df looks like this:
>
>Because the BIOS does not see the drive, there is no hd2 as far as
>Grub is concerned. The only way to fix that is a BIOS upgrade, or a
>SATA controller with its own BIOS.
>
The bios is the latest for this board, dated September 2007. I was surprised
to see it available as the board is about 4 years old now, a biostar
M7NCD-Pro. Installing it changed the default FSB to 400MHZ, and an XP-2800
can only do 333MHZ. It crashed so quickly I had to dig out an old industrial
IBM keyboard with a ps2 connector in order to get into the bios and slow it
down again. Even usb stuff was dead.

It still doesn't see the card, and an lspci -v shows:

01:0a.0 RAID bus controller: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT6421 IDE RAID Controller
(rev 50)
Subsystem: VIA Technologies, Inc. VT6421 IDE RAID Controller
Flags: bus master, medium devsel, latency 32, IRQ 21
I/O ports at 9400 [size=16]
I/O ports at 9800 [size=16]
I/O ports at 9c00 [size=16]
I/O ports at a000 [size=16]
I/O ports at a400 [size=32]
I/O ports at a800 [size=256]
[virtual] Expansion ROM at 50000000 [disabled] [size=64K]
Capabilities: [e0] Power Management version 2

Note the expansion ROM is disabled, and I've played with wine quite a bit
trying to make it run something, hell anything, from the little 3" cd that
came with the card, but wine apparently can't even see the cd. And I don't
know jack schidt about wine or winderz. Only one machine here with a copy of
xp on it, hasn't been booted to xp but once in a year+, to see how googles
sketchup is supposed to work.

I just tried to mount the disk, but its not mountable by any known M$ idiom
filesystem according to dmesg.

There may be something on the disk that could enable the extension rom, if one
could figure out what sort of a disk it is. I may take the card, and both
disks to a winderz box and explore it there to see if there is some sort of a
software switch to enable this, but that will be after Christmas now.

><--------------------[snip]------------>
>
>> So we have drives sca, sdb, and sdc (the sata drive on a via raid card)
>>
>> But when booted by the above mechanism, using a fedora kernel to f8,
>> the drive order is scrambled, with the now sdc becoming sda, hda becoming
>> sdb and what was hdd is now sdc.
>
>This is because of the order the drivers are loaded. The SATA drive
>is on the first "SCSI" controller, and the PATA drives are on the
>second "SCSI" controller. So the SATA controller is scanned forst
>for drives, and then the PATA controller. Drive letters are assigned
>in the order the drives are found.

What determines this scan order in the bootfile?

>> Humm that brings up another question, of what use is
>> /boot/grub/device.map file then? The 'grub-install --recheck'
>> re-wrote that file WITH the linux visible sata drive, like this:
>> (hd0) /dev/sda
>> (hd1) /dev/sdb
>> (hd2) /dev/sdc
>>
>> And with an fd0 entry as the first line I've since removed.
>>
>> If the bios can't see sdc, that last entry serves no usefull purpose
>> and the --recheck code needs fixed, its buggier than a 10 day old
>> deer carcass in August.
>
>The problem is that --recheck is only the best guess that Grub can
>make from the information it has. Once the system has booted the OS,
>there is no good way to determine the BIOS order of the drives. This
>is why the warning about verifying that the drive map is correct.
>
>With just about everything handled as SCSI drives now, there will be
>some problems that will have to be worked out. Partition labels take
>care of a lot of it by making drive order irrelevant, but you will
>have to be even more careful using programs like fdisk and dd. Grub
>will have a harder time guessing BIOS drive order, because the
>system drive order is not tied to the BIOS order at all, and the
>BIOS options for booting from other hard drives besides the first
>one, and for booting from USB drives, results in the BIOS order
>changing as well. The drive you tell the BIOS to boot from becomes
>the first BIOS drive.

Hummmm.... So take hd2 out of the device.map, its irrevelant anyway. But
that also will not fix this. The obvious fix is to make the bios extension
active. The 64K$ question is how.

>Mikkel

Thanks, and have a Very Merry Christmas, Mikkel.

--
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Q: How do you catch a unique rabbit?
A: Unique up on it!

Q: How do you catch a tame rabbit?
A: The tame way!

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Gene Heskett 12-23-2007 03:22 PM

dual booting fc6, f8
 
On Sunday 23 December 2007, John Summerfield wrote:
[...]
>When you install a new kernel, and this applies to rpm-based systems and
>to deb-based system, _something_ automatically updates the grub's
>menu.lst (the "correct" name for the file containing the menu) for you.
>
>the details differ between vendors, but it can only work if the system
>you're running on can see where is kernels are, and importantly, where
>the menu is.
>
>My and large, this makes use of a single menu for all Linuxes (and maybe
> other *xes) impractical.
>
>What I do is create a menu for each, each as if it's the only OS on the
>computer.
>
>Here is a fragment from an actual system i have that's configured to
>boot from two drives:
>
>title Scientific Linux SL (2.6.18-8.1.15.el5xen)
> root (hd0,0)
> kernel /xen.gz-2.6.18-8.1.15.el5
> module /vmlinuz-2.6.18-8.1.15.el5xen ro
>root=/dev/VolGroup00/LogVol00
> module /initrd-2.6.18-8.1.15.el5xen.img
> savedefault
>title Other
> rootnoverify (hd1,0)
> chainloader +1
> savedefault
>[root@numbat ~]#
>
>The "other" stanza boots the boot record from the _first partition_ on
>the second disk. More usual is booting the MBR:
>
>title Other
> rootnoverify (hd1)
> chainloader +1
>
>the result is that you can switch between different bootloaders on
>different drives. It worked for a drive on which I installed two RHEL5
>betas, SLES10 and opensuse10, it worked years ago when I had Darwin
>installed (before Macintels), and I would expect it to work for every
>disk the BIOS can see.
>
>Normally I'd link to every bootable system from every bootable system.
>
>For more details
>pinfo grub

All very good advice John, and I have done it in the past, keeping FC2
bootable while I was getting FC6 whipped into my version, and good IF the
bios can see ALL drives. The bios here can only see ide drives, and of the
two, only one has a /boot partition, the first ide drive.

Thanks, and have a Very Merry Christmas, John.

--
Cheers, Gene
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author)
Good night, Austin, Texas, wherever you are!

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Gene Heskett 12-23-2007 03:27 PM

dual booting fc6, f8
 
On Sunday 23 December 2007, Timothy Murphy wrote:
>Gene Heskett wrote:
>> But I figured that would probably need an edit of /boot/grub/device.map,
>> but before I did that, I thought I'd run 'grub-install --recheck /dev/sda'
>> sda being the new name for the ide0,0 drive, the old /dev/hda.
>
>There is a fairly strong warning now not to use --recheck , I think.
>
>> So I guess I don't understand how grub works as well as I thought. The
>> info pages might tell me, but it seems the only way to read them is
>> backwards as once you've gone down a tree to read something, there seems
>> to be only one way to back up, using the backspace key, but you never get
>> back to the main menu so its easier to 'q'uit it and restart it, but that
>> screws with ones train of thought till not even 2 more cups of coffee
>> makes it make sense.
>
>I really think it saves time in the long run
>to learn how to use grub interactively.
>It's not well-documented, in my opinion,

I nominate that for the statement of the decade honors. Do you do standup on
the side? :)

>but it is not too difficult.
>Basically you have to type in the commands
>that appear in the grub stanza:
>grub> root (hd1,0)
>grub> kernel /vmlinuz...
>grub> initrd /initrd...
>grub> boot
>
>grub will try to finish /vmlinuz etc if you press TAB,
>so you can see at once if you are in the right place.

And again, this suffers from the requirement that to run grub, you are already
booted to something. So the drives are already visible. To the bios, they
are not.

Thanks Tim, and have a Very Merry Christmas.

--
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"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
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Karl Larsen 12-23-2007 05:05 PM

dual booting fc6, f8
 
Gene Heskett wrote:

Greetings;

In attempting to come up with a grub.conf which will boot either version of
the os, I kept running into not being able to boot f8 from anything but a
fedora kernel.


I have successfully switched the kernel.org 2.6.24-rc6 kernel such that all
hard drives are now /dev/sd*.


But I figured that would probably need an edit of /boot/grub/device.map, but
before I did that, I thought I'd run 'grub-install --recheck /dev/sda' sda
being the new name for the ide0,0 drive, the old /dev/hda.


>From my read of the info page, I assumed it would not write anything, but just
check what was there for errors. But it did
rewrite /dev/hda1/grub/device.map, placing fd0 above the older assignments,
and appending the new sata drive below as /dev/sdc, and replaced a now
missing FC2 install on what was /dev/hdb with the /amandatapes drive which
was formerly /dev/hdd. There is currently no drive on the middle connector
of the first ide cable.


Confusing ain't it?

So, thinking that I needed to re-edit my grub.conf to set the f8 drive as
'root (hd2,0)', I did so. But now none of the f8 boot stanzas work, error 15,
file not found.


So I guess I don't understand how grub works as well as I thought. The info
pages might tell me, but it seems the only way to read them is backwards as
once you've gone down a tree to read something, there seems to be only one
way to back up, using the backspace key, but you never get back to the main
menu so its easier to 'q'uit it and restart it, but that screws with ones
train of thought till not even 2 more cups of coffee makes it make sense.


The other ugly thought is that my bios doesn't see the sata drive (sdc) at
all, and the couple of times I made it boot to f8, I had to move all the boot
files to /dev/hda1, but specify /dev/VolGroup01/LogVol00 in the kernel
argument line, but that seems to have quit working too.


What is the usual scenario here?

Should I do an hd assignment swap and then chainload to the sata drive? But,
if the bios can't see it, I'd have to assume grub cannot either at that stage
of the boot.


Or should I just resign myself to having to maintain a boot partition on an
pata drive just so the system can even find its bootstrap files? The
achilles heel there is that its only a 99 meg partition.


That would allow me to use that 200 megs for a dos partition, but what good is
that if the bios can't find it... Sigh.


My thanks to all that have read this far.


I am booting both f7 and f8 and it works fine. I loaded f8 to use
the boot partition as the place to put it's setup. Then I added to my f7
grub.conf a title F8 and a chainload ++ to the F8 boot partition.


This works just fine. If you need more details ask.

Karl


--

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Linux User
#450462 http://counter.li.org.
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