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Old 12-22-2011, 06:23 AM
Craig White
 
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On Thu, 2011-12-22 at 08:10 +0100, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
> On 12/22/2011 08:00 AM, Tim wrote:
> > On Wed, 2011-12-21 at 20:04 +0000, Frank Murphy wrote:
> >>
> >> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/users/2011-December/410018.html
> >
> > Begs the question: Has this no-logging become a new default, or just a
> > fault?
>
> I would call it a functional regression having been introduce during by
> the sysvinit/upstart->systemd transition.
>
> If it has not been BZ'd before, it should be BZ'ed.
----
I get the feeling that this is a transition issue (from pre-systemd to
post-systemd upgrades) and not an issue for a clean install (which I did
and so far, it is logging).

Craig


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Old 12-22-2011, 06:27 AM
Joe Zeff
 
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On 12/21/2011 11:10 PM, Ralf Corsepius wrote:

I would call it a functional regression having been introduce during by
the sysvinit/upstart->systemd transition.

If it has not been BZ'd before, it should be BZ'ed.


I wouldn't mind being the reporter, but I'd like to know if anybody else
sees this or not. I'll try to find time to fire up my laptop tomorrow
and check there as well, but I'd also appreciate it if the rest of you
would check and let me know if it's been off.

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Old 12-22-2011, 06:48 AM
Ralf Corsepius
 
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On 12/22/2011 08:27 AM, Joe Zeff wrote:

On 12/21/2011 11:10 PM, Ralf Corsepius wrote:

I would call it a functional regression having been introduce during by
the sysvinit/upstart->systemd transition.

If it has not been BZ'd before, it should be BZ'ed.


I wouldn't mind being the reporter, but I'd like to know if anybody else
sees this or not.

I've had this issue on several (all?) machines
Most of them were upgrades from f14 (via f15) and some were fresh installs.

Unfortunately, I don't recall if this issue only happens on upgrades or
also on fresh installs.



I'll try to find time to fire up my laptop tomorrow
and check there as well, but I'd also appreciate it if the rest of you
would check and let me know if it's been off.

While we're at it:

I've seen upgrades to leave sysvinit-symlinks behind in /etc/rc?.d/*,
which seem to be able to confuse systemd.


Ralf

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Old 12-22-2011, 07:32 AM
Rahul Sundaram
 
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On 12/22/2011 12:30 PM, Tim wrote:
> On Wed, 2011-12-21 at 20:04 +0000, Frank Murphy wrote:
>>
>> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/users/2011-December/410018.html
>
> Begs the question: Has this no-logging become a new default, or just a
> fault?

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F16_bugs#Upgrade_from_previous_releases_res ets_the_enablement_status_of_services

Rahul

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Old 12-22-2011, 08:03 AM
"T.C. Hollingsworth"
 
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On Thu, Dec 22, 2011 at 1:32 AM, Rahul Sundaram <metherid@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 12/22/2011 12:30 PM, Tim wrote:
>> On Wed, 2011-12-21 at 20:04 +0000, Frank Murphy wrote:
>>>
>>> http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/users/2011-December/410018.html
>>
>> Begs the question: *Has this no-logging become a new default, or just a
>> fault?
>
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Common_F16_bugs#Upgrade_from_previous_releases_res ets_the_enablement_status_of_services

rsyslog can and should configure itself to start by default even when
transitioning from sysv->systemd. Packages are supposed to revert to
their default state on upgrade, and the default state for rsyslog is
"enabled". As a matter of fact, it would appear that it is doing so,
because it has "systemctl enable" in it's triggerun for previous
versions.

The fact that it's not being enabled in practice is definitely a bug,
and someone experiencing this should file it.

-T.C.
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Old 12-22-2011, 08:06 AM
Reindl Harald
 
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On 22.12.2011 07:27, Joe Zeff wrote:
> On 12/21/2011 11:10 PM, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
>> I would call it a functional regression having been introduce during by
>> the sysvinit/upstart->systemd transition.
>>
>> If it has not been BZ'd before, it should be BZ'ed.
>
> I wouldn't mind being the reporter, but I'd like to know if anybody else sees
> this or not. I'll try to find time to fire up my laptop tomorrow and check there
> as well, but I'd also appreciate it if the rest of you would check and let me know
> if it's been off.

this si all correct

but normally you should make a list which services are running
before the upgrade and verify that there are none missing after
the upgrade or services you did disable before were silently
enabled again

what do you do if some bug disables sshd while you make the
upgrade over ssh? after a blindly reboot the amchine is away
for you!

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Old 12-22-2011, 08:51 AM
Ralf Corsepius
 
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On 12/22/2011 10:06 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:



On 22.12.2011 07:27, Joe Zeff wrote:

On 12/21/2011 11:10 PM, Ralf Corsepius wrote:

I would call it a functional regression having been introduce during by
the sysvinit/upstart->systemd transition.

If it has not been BZ'd before, it should be BZ'ed.


I wouldn't mind being the reporter, but I'd like to know if anybody else sees
this or not. I'll try to find time to fire up my laptop tomorrow and check there
as well, but I'd also appreciate it if the rest of you would check and let me know
if it's been off.


this si all correct

but normally you should make a list which services are running
before the upgrade and verify that there are none missing after
the upgrade or services you did disable before were silently
enabled again
I would expect an upgrade to preserve those service which were running
before the upgrade. This is what upgrading to systemd was supposed to
do. The fact it doesn't therefore qualifies as a bug.



what do you do if some bug disables sshd while you make the
upgrade over ssh? after a blindly reboot the amchine is away
for you!


... why limit this to ssh? There are many possibilities for this to
happen. AFAICT, systemd is much more sensitive to such issues than
sysvint/upstart used to be.


Ralf


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Old 12-22-2011, 09:31 AM
Tom Horsley
 
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On Thu, 22 Dec 2011 17:30:50 +1030
Tim wrote:

> Begs the question: Has this no-logging become a new default, or just a
> fault?

Maybe doing an upgrade doesn't transfer the on/off setting
from the old chkconfig info to the new systemd info?
Maybe syslog is merely the most noticable of the services
that isn't running?
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Old 12-22-2011, 09:54 AM
Reindl Harald
 
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On 22.12.2011 10:51, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
> On 12/22/2011 10:06 AM, Reindl Harald wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 22.12.2011 07:27, Joe Zeff wrote:
>>> On 12/21/2011 11:10 PM, Ralf Corsepius wrote:
>>>> I would call it a functional regression having been introduce during by
>>>> the sysvinit/upstart->systemd transition.
>>>>
>>>> If it has not been BZ'd before, it should be BZ'ed.
>>>
>>> I wouldn't mind being the reporter, but I'd like to know if anybody else sees
>>> this or not. I'll try to find time to fire up my laptop tomorrow and check there
>>> as well, but I'd also appreciate it if the rest of you would check and let me know
>>> if it's been off.
>>
>> this si all correct
>>
>> but normally you should make a list which services are running
>> before the upgrade and verify that there are none missing after
>> the upgrade or services you did disable before were silently
>> enabled again
>
> I would expect an upgrade to preserve those service which were running before
> the upgrade. This is what upgrading to systemd was supposed to do. The fact it
> doesn't therefore qualifies as a bug.

yes it is a bug
yes you expect correct

but YES if you administrate a system you are repsonsible to verify
your expectations!

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Old 12-22-2011, 12:12 PM
Claude Jones
 
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On 12/22/2011 02:27 AM, Joe Zeff wrote:

On 12/21/2011 11:10 PM, Ralf Corsepius wrote:

I would call it a functional regression having been introduce during by
the sysvinit/upstart->systemd transition.

If it has not been BZ'd before, it should be BZ'ed.


I wouldn't mind being the reporter, but I'd like to know if anybody else
sees this or not. I'll try to find time to fire up my laptop tomorrow
and check there as well, but I'd also appreciate it if the rest of you
would check and let me know if it's been off.


Well, you know I saw it since the fix that someone pointed out to you
was a response to a query of mine regarding the same problem...and my
system was a preupgrade from F15


--
Claude Jones
Brunswick, MD, USA
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