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Old 08-20-2008, 12:07 AM
"Dean S. Messing"
 
Default OT question about Macbook (OS X) file systems

George N. White III wrote:
> On Tue, 19 Aug 2008, Dean S. Messing wrote:
>
> > I just purchaced a Macbook for my daughter as she's off to college
> > (required by the dept. she's in). I'm wondering if OS X understands the
> > ext3 filesysystem. In particular, will it properly handle symlinks
> > generated under linux? I wd. like to give her a USB disk containing an
> > ext3 filesystem (that has lots of symlinks) with her 25 Gig organised
> > classical music library on it (done on an F8 system).
>
> Why not just set up the USB disk using the mac and rsync the files
> across via networking?

Thanks for the suggestion, George.

Were I to bring my own (FC-6) laptop to Chicago, where she's attending
school, that might be an option. We'll pick up the MacBook at the
bookstore there on Thurday. But I have not a clue about how to get
networking working on it, so even if I brought my own linux laptop
(for truly local area networking) I'm not sure of myself at all.

What I'd hoped to do is be able to hand her the drive and have it "just
work". She knows as much about computers in general as I do about
Macs (zero). (She spent all her free time the last 7 years training
to be a concert grade pianist :-)

She'll likely be on the network in a few days via the school's IT dept.
but then I have no idea if I'd be able to get 25-30Gigs of data to her
via rsync/ssh. Does the school disallow it through their firewall?
Does the Mac have the server for me to connect to? I don't know
the answer to any of these.

Besides this (andthe Macbook) was suppose to be my (hassle-free) gift
to her. :-)


> OS X doesn't do ext3. You might be able to create an HFS+ filesystem
> (I mount my HFS+ iPOD and write to it with linux, but there are
> warnings "write on journalled filesystem not supported"). OS X does
> have zfs and linux has fuse+zfs, so that might be worth a try too.

I just called the local Apple store and they said that zfs is not
natively supported under OS X (yet). The 4 that are, are:
XFS, XFS+, Fat, and NTFS.

I suppose I can write an NTFS FS to the drive but I don't
know if the symlinks will work. I think I read that true NTFS symlinks
are a recent thing. I'l look into creating an HFS+ FS under linux
(with journalling turned off as per your warning above.
I've got till tomorrow to solve this. That's when I fly out.

Thanks again.
Dean

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Old 08-20-2008, 12:30 AM
"Dean S. Messing"
 
Default OT question about Macbook (OS X) file systems

> I think you are over thinking this...
>
> If you tar the files and untar them on the MacOS HD (HFS+), the symbolic
> links should be fine.
>
> http://developer.apple.com/documentation/MacOSX/Conceptual/BPFileSystem/Articles/Aliases.html
>
> I seriously doubt that bringing in a non-native file system is the
> answer you are looking for.

Thanks for the link and the advice, Craig.

Now that I've looked into things, I agree with you about the
non-native filesystem.

But I'm missing something fundamental. How, without being on a
network, do I get the 30GB tar file off my disk and onto her computer?

Her Mac is in its packing box at the bookstore at her college in
Chicago. I live in Washington. I fly out tomorrow. In the short time
I'll be in Chicago, we'll have little time to mess with computer
stuff. She'll be busy with a million other "freshman orientation"
things. I'm clearly missing the obvious. Please clue me in.
Thanks.

Dean

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Old 08-20-2008, 12:34 AM
"Dean S. Messing"
 
Default OT question about Macbook (OS X) file systems

In my last message I stupidly wrote:

> I just called the local Apple store and they said that zfs is not
> natively supported under OS X (yet). The 4 that are, are:
> XFS, XFS+, Fat, and NTFS.

Of course, I meant HFS and HFS+.

I'd like to say it was a simple typo, but the X is too far from the H
for that to fly. I'll have to admit it was a braino.

Dean

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Old 08-20-2008, 12:34 AM
Rick Stevens
 
Default OT question about Macbook (OS X) file systems

Dean S. Messing wrote:

George N. White III wrote:

On Tue, 19 Aug 2008, Dean S. Messing wrote:

I just purchaced a Macbook for my daughter as she's off to college
(required by the dept. she's in). I'm wondering if OS X understands the
ext3 filesysystem. In particular, will it properly handle symlinks
generated under linux? I wd. like to give her a USB disk containing an
ext3 filesystem (that has lots of symlinks) with her 25 Gig organised
classical music library on it (done on an F8 system).

Why not just set up the USB disk using the mac and rsync the files
across via networking?


Thanks for the suggestion, George.

Were I to bring my own (FC-6) laptop to Chicago, where she's attending
school, that might be an option. We'll pick up the MacBook at the
bookstore there on Thurday. But I have not a clue about how to get
networking working on it, so even if I brought my own linux laptop
(for truly local area networking) I'm not sure of myself at all.

What I'd hoped to do is be able to hand her the drive and have it "just
work". She knows as much about computers in general as I do about
Macs (zero). (She spent all her free time the last 7 years training
to be a concert grade pianist :-)

She'll likely be on the network in a few days via the school's IT dept.
but then I have no idea if I'd be able to get 25-30Gigs of data to her
via rsync/ssh. Does the school disallow it through their firewall?
Does the Mac have the server for me to connect to? I don't know
the answer to any of these.


Besides this (andthe Macbook) was suppose to be my (hassle-free) gift
to her. :-)



OS X doesn't do ext3. You might be able to create an HFS+ filesystem
(I mount my HFS+ iPOD and write to it with linux, but there are
warnings "write on journalled filesystem not supported"). OS X does
have zfs and linux has fuse+zfs, so that might be worth a try too.


I just called the local Apple store and they said that zfs is not
natively supported under OS X (yet). The 4 that are, are:
XFS, XFS+, Fat, and NTFS.

I suppose I can write an NTFS FS to the drive but I don't
know if the symlinks will work. I think I read that true NTFS symlinks
are a recent thing. I'l look into creating an HFS+ FS under linux
(with journalling turned off as per your warning above.
I've got till tomorrow to solve this. That's when I fly out.


The simplest thing is to use vfat on the pen drive. Most of them come
preformatted with vfat and both Linux and OS/X can handle them fine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
- Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer rps2@nerd.com -
- Hosting Consulting, Inc. -
- -
- We look for things. Things that make us go! -
----------------------------------------------------------------------

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Old 08-20-2008, 12:35 AM
Craig White
 
Default OT question about Macbook (OS X) file systems

On Tue, 2008-08-19 at 17:30 -0700, Dean S. Messing wrote:
> > I think you are over thinking this...
> >
> > If you tar the files and untar them on the MacOS HD (HFS+), the symbolic
> > links should be fine.
> >
> > http://developer.apple.com/documentation/MacOSX/Conceptual/BPFileSystem/Articles/Aliases.html
> >
> > I seriously doubt that bringing in a non-native file system is the
> > answer you are looking for.
>
> Thanks for the link and the advice, Craig.
>
> Now that I've looked into things, I agree with you about the
> non-native filesystem.
>
> But I'm missing something fundamental. How, without being on a
> network, do I get the 30GB tar file off my disk and onto her computer?
>
> Her Mac is in its packing box at the bookstore at her college in
> Chicago. I live in Washington. I fly out tomorrow. In the short time
> I'll be in Chicago, we'll have little time to mess with computer
> stuff. She'll be busy with a million other "freshman orientation"
> things. I'm clearly missing the obvious. Please clue me in.
> Thanks.
----
a network is 2 computers and a network cable. Since the new MacBook will
clearly have 1Gb network connection, a simple cable between the 2
computers is your network and all you need to do is manually address
them on the same network/subnet and you can transfer the file(s) via
scp.

Craig

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Old 08-20-2008, 12:50 AM
Rick Stevens
 
Default OT question about Macbook (OS X) file systems

Craig White wrote:

On Tue, 2008-08-19 at 17:30 -0700, Dean S. Messing wrote:

I think you are over thinking this...

If you tar the files and untar them on the MacOS HD (HFS+), the symbolic
links should be fine.

http://developer.apple.com/documentation/MacOSX/Conceptual/BPFileSystem/Articles/Aliases.html

I seriously doubt that bringing in a non-native file system is the
answer you are looking for.

Thanks for the link and the advice, Craig.

Now that I've looked into things, I agree with you about the
non-native filesystem.

But I'm missing something fundamental. How, without being on a
network, do I get the 30GB tar file off my disk and onto her computer?

Her Mac is in its packing box at the bookstore at her college in
Chicago. I live in Washington. I fly out tomorrow. In the short time
I'll be in Chicago, we'll have little time to mess with computer
stuff. She'll be busy with a million other "freshman orientation"
things. I'm clearly missing the obvious. Please clue me in.
Thanks.

----
a network is 2 computers and a network cable. Since the new MacBook will
clearly have 1Gb network connection, a simple cable between the 2
computers is your network and all you need to do is manually address
them on the same network/subnet and you can transfer the file(s) via
scp.


And you'd better use a "flipped" cable or it won't work. Or two
regular cables and a hub/switch.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
- Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer rps2@nerd.com -
- Hosting Consulting, Inc. -
- -
- Jimmie crack corn and I don't care...what kind of lousy attitude -
- is THAT to have, huh? -- Dennis Miller -
----------------------------------------------------------------------

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Old 08-20-2008, 01:00 AM
Craig White
 
Default OT question about Macbook (OS X) file systems

On Tue, 2008-08-19 at 17:50 -0700, Rick Stevens wrote:
> Craig White wrote:
> > On Tue, 2008-08-19 at 17:30 -0700, Dean S. Messing wrote:
> >>> I think you are over thinking this...
> >>>
> >>> If you tar the files and untar them on the MacOS HD (HFS+), the symbolic
> >>> links should be fine.
> >>>
> >>> http://developer.apple.com/documentation/MacOSX/Conceptual/BPFileSystem/Articles/Aliases.html
> >>>
> >>> I seriously doubt that bringing in a non-native file system is the
> >>> answer you are looking for.
> >> Thanks for the link and the advice, Craig.
> >>
> >> Now that I've looked into things, I agree with you about the
> >> non-native filesystem.
> >>
> >> But I'm missing something fundamental. How, without being on a
> >> network, do I get the 30GB tar file off my disk and onto her computer?
> >>
> >> Her Mac is in its packing box at the bookstore at her college in
> >> Chicago. I live in Washington. I fly out tomorrow. In the short time
> >> I'll be in Chicago, we'll have little time to mess with computer
> >> stuff. She'll be busy with a million other "freshman orientation"
> >> things. I'm clearly missing the obvious. Please clue me in.
> >> Thanks.
> > ----
> > a network is 2 computers and a network cable. Since the new MacBook will
> > clearly have 1Gb network connection, a simple cable between the 2
> > computers is your network and all you need to do is manually address
> > them on the same network/subnet and you can transfer the file(s) via
> > scp.
>
> And you'd better use a "flipped" cable or it won't work. Or two
> regular cables and a hub/switch.
----
1Gb spec has auto-switching which should make a hub/switch/cross-over
cable unneeded.

Craig

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Old 08-20-2008, 01:04 AM
Les Mikesell
 
Default OT question about Macbook (OS X) file systems

Dean S. Messing wrote:

I think you are over thinking this...

If you tar the files and untar them on the MacOS HD (HFS+), the symbolic
links should be fine.

http://developer.apple.com/documentation/MacOSX/Conceptual/BPFileSystem/Articles/Aliases.html

I seriously doubt that bringing in a non-native file system is the
answer you are looking for.


Thanks for the link and the advice, Craig.

Now that I've looked into things, I agree with you about the
non-native filesystem.

But I'm missing something fundamental. How, without being on a
network, do I get the 30GB tar file off my disk and onto her computer?


Split the tar into pieces less than 2GB (with split -b), copy to a VFAT
formatted USB drive and on the mac, cat the pieces back together to feed
to tar. But, if the music files have standard tags that itunes will
recognize, I'd just copy the files themselves to a vfat drive without
the symlink structure, drop them into itunes and let it organize them
its own way. You'll quickly learn to hate macs if you try to force them
to do things your way.


--
Les Mikesell
lesmikesell@gmail.com

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Old 08-20-2008, 01:47 AM
Tim
 
Default OT question about Macbook (OS X) file systems

Les Mikesell:
> You'll quickly learn to hate macs if you try to force them
> to do things your way.

Yet another amusing illustration of one computer versus another:
http://ralree.com/images/MacPCLinuxTruth.jpg

Shows what I've found over the years: Endless fiddling with Windows
trying to make it do what you want, Mac will only do what it wants, and
you can make it do what you want with Linux.

--
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -r
2.6.25.14-108.fc9.i686

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I
read messages from the public lists.



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Old 08-20-2008, 01:51 AM
"Dean S. Messing"
 
Default OT question about Macbook (OS X) file systems

Craig White wrote:
> a network is 2 computers and a network cable. Since the new MacBook will
> clearly have 1Gb network connection, a simple cable between the 2
> computers is your network and all you need to do is manually address
> them on the same network/subnet and you can transfer the file(s) via
> scp.

Agreed. And I'd be willing to bring my linux laptop if I had enough
knowledge of Macs to even turn one on :-) I have 0 knowledge of the
Mac (and no time to learn). On the other hand I feel some confidence
that I can get a writable HFS+ filesystem onto an 120GB USB drive that
I'm cleaning off right now.

I've downloaded hfsplus-tools. Now all I need to do is find
"pdisk" so I can create a Mac partition on the drive, run 1mkfs.hfsplus',
figure out how to turn off journaling, and I'm there (I think).

I'm perfectly confortable working in Linux, but I'm out of my depth
with a Mac (or M$ Windows for that matter). If I had a few days
to tinker around, or someone to do the Mac side for me I might be able to do it.
But I don't. Thanks for your patience.

Dean



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