Hi;

NetworkManager has apparently screwed up a lot of small Gnome processes.

* Trouble with Evo getting itself stuck in downloading mail
(looping ??).
* Clock applet not getting task and calendar info from Evolution
properly.
* I have been told that NM configuration info and keys should be
in my gconf-editor. They are not.
* A couple of other little things (I forget now) not operating
properly after turning NetworkManager off and on.

I will see if I can get help with NetworkManager on the
networkmanager-list@gnome.org , but meanwhile, so as to avoid asking
really stupid questions in more than one place. Is the 'network'
service supposed to be running while the NetworkManager service is on?

Is it compiled into the kernel? I thought it was a module? Are those
questions even relevant?

ps aux shows NetworkManager but no 'network' or friends.

The command line shows:

]# service network status
Configured devices:
lo eth0
Currently active devices:
lo eth0

]# service network stop
Shutting down interface eth0: [ OK ]
Shutting down loopback interface: [ OK ]

and then;

]# service network status
Configured devices:
lo eth0
Currently active devices:
lo eth0

There is no Fedora manual or 'Help' for NetworkManager

'man NetworkManager' produces only:
"DESCRIPTION
The NetworkManager daemon attempts to keep an active
network connection available at all times. The point of
NetworkManager is to make networking configuration and setup
as painless and automatic as possible. If using DHCP,
NetworkManager is intended to replace default routes,obtain
IP addresses from a DHCP server, and change nameservers whenever
it sees fit, with the aim of making networking Just Work."

nm-tool shows me no more info than is available in the NM gui.

http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Tools/NetworkManager simply tells me how
to configure for pam. My pam.d/gdm is
auth optional pam_gnome_keyring.so
session optional pam_gnome_keyring.so auto_start

googled sites gives info for gentoo and mandrivia only.

I am stumped. I will re-ask on the NetworkManager list, but first I
would like to straighten out in my mind the network vs NetworkManger
services thing.

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Regards Bill;
Fedora 9, Gnome 2.22.3
Evo.2.22.3.1, Emacs 22.2.1

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On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 14:40 -0400, William Case wrote:
> I will see if I can get help with NetworkManager on the
> networkmanager-list@gnome.org , but meanwhile, so as to avoid asking
> really stupid questions in more than one place. Is the 'network'
> service supposed to be running while the NetworkManager service is on?

There is no such thing as *the* 'network' service (in the sense I think
you mean). People on this list are using Network vs. NM as a shorthand
for two ways of configuring the various network components, some of
which are in the kernel and some in user space. Specifically when they
say Network in this context they mean the set of scripts invoked via the
system-config-network command.

> Is it compiled into the kernel? I thought it was a module? Are those
> questions even relevant?

The TCP/IP network protocol stack is wired into the kernel. Various
device drivers may be wired in or loadable as modules. Other bits such
as DHCP service run in user space.

> ps aux shows NetworkManager but no 'network' or friends.

Because it's not a single process.

poc

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Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 14:40 -0400, William Case wrote:
>> I will see if I can get help with NetworkManager on the
>> networkmanager-list@gnome.org , but meanwhile, so as to avoid asking
>> really stupid questions in more than one place. Is the 'network'
>> service supposed to be running while the NetworkManager service is on?
>
> There is no such thing as *the* 'network' service (in the sense I think
> you mean). People on this list are using Network vs. NM as a shorthand
> for two ways of configuring the various network components, some of
> which are in the kernel and some in user space. Specifically when they
> say Network in this context they mean the set of scripts invoked via the
> system-config-network command.
>
Yes there is. I have to check F9, but F8 has both the NetworkManager
and network services. NetworkManager is started with run level 5,
and network is started with run level 3 by default. (The spelling is
important if you want to start/stop them manually.)

In any case, he would have gotten an error when he used the service
command if there was not a network service.

Mikkel
--

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for thou art crunchy and taste good with Ketchup!

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Now I am getting more confused.

On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 15:02 -0500, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
> Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 14:40 -0400, William Case wrote:
> >> I will see if I can get help with NetworkManager on the
> >> networkmanager-list@gnome.org , but meanwhile, so as to avoid asking
> >> really stupid questions in more than one place. Is the 'network'
> >> service supposed to be running while the NetworkManager service is on?
> >
> > There is no such thing as *the* 'network' service (in the sense I think
> > you mean). People on this list are using Network vs. NM as a shorthand
> > for two ways of configuring the various network components, some of
> > which are in the kernel and some in user space. Specifically when they
> > say Network in this context they mean the set of scripts invoked via the
> > system-config-network command.
> >
> Yes there is. I have to check F9, but F8 has both the NetworkManager
> and network services. NetworkManager is started with run level 5,
> and network is started with run level 3 by default. (The spelling is
> important if you want to start/stop them manually.)
>
> In any case, he would have gotten an error when he used the service
> command if there was not a network service.
>
> Mikkel

When I run the system-config-services gui I get the following info:
NetworkManager => enabled, running, run level 2,3,4,5
network => disabled, running, run level all off.

plus the same command line info as previously.

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On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 14:55 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 14:40 -0400, William Case wrote:
> > I will see if I can get help with NetworkManager on the
> > networkmanager-list@gnome.org , but meanwhile, so as to avoid asking
> > really stupid questions in more than one place. Is the 'network'
> > service supposed to be running while the NetworkManager service is on?
>
> There is no such thing as *the* 'network' service (in the sense I think
> you mean). People on this list are using Network vs. NM as a shorthand
> for two ways of configuring the various network components, some of
> which are in the kernel and some in user space. Specifically when they
> say Network in this context they mean the set of scripts invoked via the
> system-config-network command.

He's referring to /etc/initi.d/network. And no, it should be off if you
are running NetowrkManager (and vice versa). And the interfaces you
want to be managed by NetworkManager should be so set in
system-config-network.

>
> > Is it compiled into the kernel? I thought it was a module? Are those
> > questions even relevant?
>
> The TCP/IP network protocol stack is wired into the kernel. Various
> device drivers may be wired in or loadable as modules. Other bits such
> as DHCP service run in user space.
>
> > ps aux shows NetworkManager but no 'network' or friends.
>
> Because it's not a single process.
>
> poc
>
>
--
Matthew Saltzman

Clemson University Math Sciences
mjs AT clemson DOT edu
http://www.math.clemson.edu/~mjs

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On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 15:02 -0500, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
> Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 14:40 -0400, William Case wrote:
> >> I will see if I can get help with NetworkManager on the
> >> networkmanager-list@gnome.org , but meanwhile, so as to avoid asking
> >> really stupid questions in more than one place. Is the 'network'
> >> service supposed to be running while the NetworkManager service is on?
> >
> > There is no such thing as *the* 'network' service (in the sense I think
> > you mean). People on this list are using Network vs. NM as a shorthand
> > for two ways of configuring the various network components, some of
> > which are in the kernel and some in user space. Specifically when they
> > say Network in this context they mean the set of scripts invoked via the
> > system-config-network command.
> >
> Yes there is. I have to check F9, but F8 has both the NetworkManager
> and network services. NetworkManager is started with run level 5,
> and network is started with run level 3 by default. (The spelling is
> important if you want to start/stop them manually.)
>
> In any case, he would have gotten an error when he used the service
> command if there was not a network service.

My qualification "in the sense I think you mean" was intended to convey
the idea that "network" is not a single process or daemon. Of course
there is a set of things collectively called "network service".

poc

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Thank you Matthew. That was why I was double checking.

On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 16:54 -0400, Matthew Saltzman wrote:
> On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 14:55 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 14:40 -0400, William Case wrote:
[snip]
>
> He's referring to /etc/initi.d/network. And no, it should be off if you
> are running NetowrkManager (and vice versa). And the interfaces you
> want to be managed by NetworkManager should be so set in
> system-config-network.

network won't turn off.

The command line shows:

]# service network status
Configured devices:
lo eth0
Currently active devices:
lo eth0

]# service network stop
Shutting down interface eth0: [ OK ]
Shutting down loopback interface: [ OK ]

and then;
NetworkManager's gui shows warning 'disconnected'; does its grind;
produces a dialogue (tool tip thingy) that says I am reconnected.

If I check, I get:

]# service network status
Configured devices:
lo eth0
Currently active devices:
lo eth0

And it is back running. Even after hot or cold re-boot.
--
Regards Bill;
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Evo.2.22.3.1, Emacs 22.2.1

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Hi Patrick;

On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 16:26 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 15:02 -0500, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
> > Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
[snip]
>
> My qualification "in the sense I think you mean" was intended to convey
> the idea that "network" is not a single process or daemon. Of course
> there is a set of things collectively called "network service".

I believe that network services were managed by the
system-control-network gui which used the ifconfig page as its data
source. I have removed the ifconfig. Yet 'something' is running and
making reference to configured devices 'lo eth0' etc.

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Fedora 9, Gnome 2.22.3
Evo.2.22.3.1, Emacs 22.2.1

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Hi Matthew;

On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 16:54 -0400, Matthew Saltzman wrote:
> On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 14:55 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 14:40 -0400, William Case wrote:

> He's referring to /etc/initi.d/network. And no, it should be off if you
> are running NetowrkManager (and vice versa). And the interfaces you
> want to be managed by NetworkManager should be so set in
> system-config-network.

They *are set* in system-config-network.

--
Regards Bill;
Fedora 9, Gnome 2.22.3
Evo.2.22.3.1, Emacs 22.2.1

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On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 17:25 -0400, William Case wrote:
> Hi Patrick;
>
> On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 16:26 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 15:02 -0500, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
> > > Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> [snip]
> >
> > My qualification "in the sense I think you mean" was intended to convey
> > the idea that "network" is not a single process or daemon. Of course
> > there is a set of things collectively called "network service".
>
> I believe that network services were managed by the
> system-control-network gui which used the ifconfig page as its data
> source. I have removed the ifconfig. Yet 'something' is running and
> making reference to configured devices 'lo eth0' etc.

Bill, we may be going off at a tangent here since I really haven't
attempted to answer your original question, but the interfaces are
always going to be there (assuming the drivers are loaded). What changes
is whether they are marked UP or not. The state of each interface is
internal to the kernel, all the various commands do is manipulate it or
report it.

Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "removed the ifconfig".

poc

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