On Sat, Aug 16, 2008 at 6:28 PM, William Case <billlinux@rogers.com> wrote:

Hi Matthew;



On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 16:54 -0400, Matthew Saltzman wrote:

> On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 14:55 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

> > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 14:40 -0400, William Case wrote:



> He's referring to /etc/initi.d/network. *And no, it should be off if you

> are running NetowrkManager (and vice versa). *And the interfaces you

> want to be managed by NetworkManager should be so set in

> system-config-network.



They *are set* in system-config-network.




And what about NetworkManager-openvpn ?
I have it installed but when I try to configure a vpn connection
the setup only shows a vpnc option. Why openvpn does not show up?


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On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 17:03 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 17:25 -0400, William Case wrote:
> > Hi Patrick;
> >
> > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 16:26 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> > > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 15:02 -0500, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
> > > > Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> > [snip]
[snip]
>
> Bill, we may be going off at a tangent here since I really haven't
> attempted to answer your original question, but the interfaces are
> always going to be there (assuming the drivers are loaded). What changes
> is whether they are marked UP or not. The state of each interface is
> internal to the kernel, all the various commands do is manipulate it or
> report it.
>
> Also, I'm not sure what you mean by "removed the ifconfig".

On advice in an earlier thread, it was suggested that ifconfig was
interfering and that I had no use for it. That I should move it aside
so that it would not be found. I moved it to a dir I keep in root for
such things -- /root/MoveAsides.

That action did get NM reworking, but the service called 'network'
remains running apparently.

My problems are all those annoying little gnome issues I listed in my
original post. All of which seemed to have started when I turned NM off
then on again.

My main objective is to get my networking working properly with no extra
programs or processes hanging around. I want -- need -- to start poking
around my network setup to learn networking. I want to make sure that
there is a direct correlation between my poking and any network
breakdowns so I can trace back what I shouldn't have done.
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William Case wrote:
>
> If I check, I get:
>
> ]# service network status
> Configured devices:
> lo eth0
> Currently active devices:
> lo eth0
>
> And it is back running. Even after hot or cold re-boot.

The way "service network status" works is that it uses the ip
command to get the list of interfaces that are up. So the list will
be the same if they are controlled by the network or the
NetworkManager service. Or if you brought them up manually using the
ifconfig command.)

Mikkel
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On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 17:10 -0400, William Case wrote:
> Thank you Matthew. That was why I was double checking.
>
> On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 16:54 -0400, Matthew Saltzman wrote:
> > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 14:55 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> > > On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 14:40 -0400, William Case wrote:
> [snip]
> >
> > He's referring to /etc/initi.d/network. And no, it should be off if you
> > are running NetowrkManager (and vice versa). And the interfaces you
> > want to be managed by NetworkManager should be so set in
> > system-config-network.
>
> network won't turn off.
>
> The command line shows:
>
> ]# service network status
> Configured devices:
> lo eth0
> Currently active devices:
> lo eth0
>
> ]# service network stop
> Shutting down interface eth0: [ OK ]
> Shutting down loopback interface: [ OK ]
>
> and then;
> NetworkManager's gui shows warning 'disconnected'; does its grind;
> produces a dialogue (tool tip thingy) that says I am reconnected.
>
> If I check, I get:
>
> ]# service network status
> Configured devices:
> lo eth0
> Currently active devices:
> lo eth0
>
> And it is back running. Even after hot or cold re-boot.

To ensure that the network service does not run at boot, run 'chkconfig
network off' as root. If the network service is stopped, it may still
report active interfaces, even if they are being managed by
NetworkManager.
--
Matthew Saltzman

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mjs AT clemson DOT edu
http://www.math.clemson.edu/~mjs

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On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 14:40 -0400, William Case wrote:
> Hi;
>
> NetworkManager has apparently screwed up a lot of small Gnome processes.
>
> * Trouble with Evo getting itself stuck in downloading mail
> (looping ??).
> * Clock applet not getting task and calendar info from Evolution
> properly.
> * I have been told that NM configuration info and keys should be
> in my gconf-editor. They are not.
> * A couple of other little things (I forget now) not operating
> properly after turning NetworkManager off and on.
I have not had the problems above. Although right now I can't find my
keys . I have seen them in earlier versions of NM, and they must be here
since the connections are made.
>
> I will see if I can get help with NetworkManager on the
> networkmanager-list@gnome.org , but meanwhile, so as to avoid asking
> really stupid questions in more than one place. Is the 'network'
> service supposed to be running while the NetworkManager service is on?
No you should run one of them but not both of them. Do you see a
nm-applet in the upper right panel. What do you see if you left click on
it. You should see the available APs.
>
> Is it compiled into the kernel? I thought it was a module? Are those
> questions even relevant?
>
> ps aux shows NetworkManager but no 'network' or friends.
>
> The command line shows:
>
> ]# service network status
> Configured devices:
> lo eth0
> Currently active devices:
> lo eth0
>
> ]# service network stop
> Shutting down interface eth0: [ OK ]
> Shutting down loopback interface: [ OK ]
>
> and then;
>
> ]# service network status
> Configured devices:
> lo eth0
> Currently active devices:
> lo eth0
>
> There is no Fedora manual or 'Help' for NetworkManager
>
> 'man NetworkManager' produces only:
> "DESCRIPTION
> The NetworkManager daemon attempts to keep an active
> network connection available at all times. The point of
> NetworkManager is to make networking configuration and setup
> as painless and automatic as possible. If using DHCP,
> NetworkManager is intended to replace default routes,obtain
> IP addresses from a DHCP server, and change nameservers whenever
> it sees fit, with the aim of making networking Just Work."
>
> nm-tool shows me no more info than is available in the NM gui.
>
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Tools/NetworkManager simply tells me how
> to configure for pam. My pam.d/gdm is
> auth optional pam_gnome_keyring.so
> session optional pam_gnome_keyring.so auto_start
>
> googled sites gives info for gentoo and mandrivia only.
>
> I am stumped. I will re-ask on the NetworkManager list, but first I
> would like to straighten out in my mind the network vs NetworkManger
> services thing.
>
> --
> Regards Bill;
> Fedora 9, Gnome 2.22.3
> Evo.2.22.3.1, Emacs 22.2.1
>
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On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 16:52 -0500, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
> William Case wrote:
> >

> The way "service network status" works is that it uses the ip
> command to get the list of interfaces that are up. So the list will
> be the same if they are controlled by the network or the
> NetworkManager service. Or if you brought them up manually using the
> ifconfig command.)
>

Ok Mikkel. that makes sense.

Then why is my system-config-services showing network at all; much less
as disabled, but running and it won't stop. Or, do I have some
misinformation here -- that 'network' shouldn't be showing in
system-config-services if NetworkManager is enabled and running? I was
told (or read) that a couple of weeks ago!!

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On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 14:55 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 14:40 -0400, William Case wrote:
> > I will see if I can get help with NetworkManager on the
> > networkmanager-list@gnome.org , but meanwhile, so as to avoid asking
> > really stupid questions in more than one place. Is the 'network'
> > service supposed to be running while the NetworkManager service is on?
>
> There is no such thing as *the* 'network' service (in the sense I think
> you mean). People on this list are using Network vs. NM as a shorthand
> for two ways of configuring the various network components, some of
> which are in the kernel and some in user space. Specifically when they
> say Network in this context they mean the set of scripts invoked via the
> system-config-network command.
If you use NM then system-confiig-network is of no use. It controls the
scripts for network.
>
> > Is it compiled into the kernel? I thought it was a module? Are those
> > questions even relevant?
>
> The TCP/IP network protocol stack is wired into the kernel. Various
> device drivers may be wired in or loadable as modules. Other bits such
> as DHCP service run in user space.
>
> > ps aux shows NetworkManager but no 'network' or friends.
>
> Because it's not a single process.
>
> poc
>
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On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 17:02 -0500, Aaron Konstam wrote:
> On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 14:40 -0400, William Case wrote:
> > Hi;
> >
> > NetworkManager has apparently screwed up a lot of small Gnome processes.
> >
> > * Trouble with Evo getting itself stuck in downloading mail
> > (looping ??).
> > * Clock applet not getting task and calendar info from Evolution
> > properly.
> > * I have been told that NM configuration info and keys should be
> > in my gconf-editor. They are not.
> > * A couple of other little things (I forget now) not operating
> > properly after turning NetworkManager off and on.
> I have not had the problems above. Although right now I can't find my
> keys . I have seen them in earlier versions of NM, and they must be here
> since the connections are made.
> >

> No you should run one of them but not both of them. Do you see a
> nm-applet in the upper right panel. What do you see if you left click on
> it. You should see the available APs.

It lists 'Wired Network' and ' . System eth0' as the Access Points.


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On Sat, 2008-08-16 at 17:50 -0400, William Case wrote:
> On advice in an earlier thread, it was suggested that ifconfig was
> interfering and that I had no use for it. That I should move it aside
> so that it would not be found. I moved it to a dir I keep in root for
> such things -- /root/MoveAsides.

You mean you moved the /sbin/ifconfig command to somewhere else? I can't
see any sane reason for doing that. It's definitely a sledgehammer way
of preventing it from being executed, but I'd say it's likely to cause
trouble (e.g. in scripts which are trying to run it).

(It is occasionally valid to move a command to one side and put a
surrogate in its place, such as a shell script that simply logs its
arguments and then executes the original, all this for debugging
purposes, but I don't get the impression that that's what you're doing).

Note also that any earlier execution of ifconfig will have remained in
force unless you also rebooted or did something specific to change it.

poc

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Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
<snip>
> My qualification "in the sense I think you mean" was intended to convey
> the idea that "network" is not a single process or daemon. Of course
> there is a set of things collectively called "network service".

which is why i suggested that he run 'locate network|grep -v icons'.

this would have shown him just how much is related to 'network'.

but what do i know. i am just a 'newbie' who has been using linux from
time of slackware release on cd, before there was a 'redhat'.

>
> poc
>

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