Further events;

On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 11:25 -0400, William Case wrote:
> Hi Kevin, Mikkel, Bruce et al;
>
> NetWorkMangager was the culprit ...
>
> On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 01:59 -0400, Kevin J. Cummings wrote:
>
> > I just went back and looked, you have a wired ethernet setup. Why are
> > you using NetworkManager? Have you tried disabling NetworkManager and
> > starting up the "network" service in its place?
>
> As you suggested, I turned off NetworkManger services. After rebooting,
> everything worked the way it should. No boot up warnings; browsers and
> Evolution started online; all connections were made.

I also tried the opposite just now. I.e turning off 'network' and
turning on NetworkManager. 'network' services would not turn off. From
the services gui I got a SELinux warning (even in permissive mode) from
the command line I got

]# service network stop
Shutting down interface eth0: [ OK ]
Shutting down loopback interface: [ OK ]

]# service NetworkManager start
Setting network parameters... [ OK ]
Starting NetworkManager daemon: [ OK ]
Waiting for network... [FAILED]

]# service NetworkManager status
NetworkManager (pid 4866) is running...

All I get is an empty notification panel gui that shows up and says no
network connection, when, in fact, everything is connected but offline.

]# service network status
Configured devices:
lo eth0
Currently active devices:
lo eth0

N.B. Tried to man 'network' -- no manual entry. Is there another name
to 'man' by?

[snip]
>
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Regards Bill;
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On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 12:50 -0400, William Case wrote:
> Further events;
[...]
> I also tried the opposite just now. I.e turning off 'network' and
> turning on NetworkManager. 'network' services would not turn off. From
> the services gui I got a SELinux warning (even in permissive mode)

In permissive mode SELinux will give you the warning but not act on it.

> from
> the command line I got
>
> ]# service network stop
> Shutting down interface eth0: [ OK ]
> Shutting down loopback interface: [ OK ]
>
> ]# service NetworkManager start
> Setting network parameters... [ OK ]
> Starting NetworkManager daemon: [ OK ]
> Waiting for network... [FAILED]
>
> ]# service NetworkManager status
> NetworkManager (pid 4866) is running...
>
> All I get is an empty notification panel gui that shows up and says no
> network connection, when, in fact, everything is connected but offline.

What does "connected but offline" mean?

> ]# service network status
> Configured devices:
> lo eth0
> Currently active devices:
> lo eth0

Try "ifconfig eth0" to see if the interface is up.

> N.B. Tried to man 'network' -- no manual entry. Is there another name
> to 'man' by?

"man -k network" will give you a list of places to start looking.

poc

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William Case wrote:
<snip>
> N.B. Tried to man 'network' -- no manual entry. Is there another name
> to 'man' by?

this is not to answer your questions as kevin and mikkel have been
doing for you. i am not up on networking as they are. this is to
help you find information related to questions that you are going
to continually run into.

1st, 'man locate' to see just how much it can do. then,

run 'locate network|grep -v icon|less', or save to a file with,
run 'locate network|grep -v icon>network-all' for all file related
to network. and with,
run 'locate network|grep help>network-help' for network help files,
run 'locate network|grep doc>network-doc' for network document files.
if you create a file, you can save time of scan for last 2 with,
'grep help network-all|less' or grep 'grep doc network-all|less'.

from following the many post for help with networking, one thing that
is apparent, 'network manager' is a good idea, but not without many
bugs. in most all of threads, main suggestion is 'turn it off'.

i would have suggested this to you when i sent what i did on 'aopen',
accept that i thought it had already been suggested, which is usually
among first suggestions. from your last couple post, it became evident
that it was not.

take it or leave. your choice.

rest assured, i am not trying to be 'off tone', 'snide', 'insulting',
or anything else of a negative attitude. just trying to offer you some
more help so you can enjoy a working linux system.

best to you.

- --

tc,hago.

g
.

in a free world without fences, who needs gates.

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Hi g;

On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 18:32 +0000, g wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> William Case wrote:
> <snip>
> > N.B. Tried to man 'network' -- no manual entry. Is there another name
> > to 'man' by?
>
[snip]

> from following the many post for help with networking, one thing that
> is apparent, 'network manager' is a good idea, but not without many
> bugs. in most all of threads, main suggestion is 'turn it off'.
>
I too saw those posts.

> i would have suggested this to you when i sent what i did on 'aopen',
> accept that i thought it had already been suggested, which is usually
> among first suggestions. from your last couple post, it became evident
> that it was not.

To me, at the moment, the problem is not solved by turning
NetworkManager off. (It is off for the moment so I can do some other
work easily.) I consider it a bit of a challenge to either get it
working or finding out what the real 'bug' is.

>
> rest assured, i am not trying to be 'off tone', 'snide', 'insulting',
> or anything else of a negative attitude. just trying to offer you some
> more help so you can enjoy a working linux system.
>
> best to you.

"The Hell you say."

> - --
>
> tc,hago.
>
> g
> .
>
> in a free world without fences, who needs gates.
>
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> Comment: Using GnuPG with Red Hat - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
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> lCy6PE0lavAKmbP2tZiycXA=
> =sVrI
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
--
Regards Bill;
Fedora 9, Gnome 2.22.3
Evo.2.22.3.1, Emacs 22.2.1

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hi william...

good to see you're back online!! as to networkmanager.. i've never gotten it
to "work" as it should. but given that it's basically a wrapper app, most of
the functionality to manage the nic is pretty straight forward either from
the cmd line, or from the text/gui system-config-network app...

let us know if you need any help!


-----Original Message-----
From: fedora-list-bounces@redhat.com
[mailto:fedora-list-bounces@redhat.com]On Behalf Of William Case
Sent: Wednesday, August 06, 2008 12:33 PM
To: For users of Fedora
Subject: Re: Messed up my ISP/Networkmanager connection !? -- [SOLVEDby
removing NetworkManager]


Hi g;

On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 18:32 +0000, g wrote:
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> Hash: SHA1
>
> William Case wrote:
> <snip>
> > N.B. Tried to man 'network' -- no manual entry. Is there another name
> > to 'man' by?
>
[snip]

> from following the many post for help with networking, one thing that
> is apparent, 'network manager' is a good idea, but not without many
> bugs. in most all of threads, main suggestion is 'turn it off'.
>
I too saw those posts.

> i would have suggested this to you when i sent what i did on 'aopen',
> accept that i thought it had already been suggested, which is usually
> among first suggestions. from your last couple post, it became evident
> that it was not.

To me, at the moment, the problem is not solved by turning
NetworkManager off. (It is off for the moment so I can do some other
work easily.) I consider it a bit of a challenge to either get it
working or finding out what the real 'bug' is.

>
> rest assured, i am not trying to be 'off tone', 'snide', 'insulting',
> or anything else of a negative attitude. just trying to offer you some
> more help so you can enjoy a working linux system.
>
> best to you.

"The Hell you say."

> - --
>
> tc,hago.
>
> g
> .
>
> in a free world without fences, who needs gates.
>
> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
> Version: GnuPG v1.4.5 (GNU/Linux)
> Comment: Using GnuPG with Red Hat - http://enigmail.mozdev.org
>
> iD8DBQFIme48+C4Bj9Rkw/wRAioBAJ9I6HP18WV2LiOEShFZov8/DoAKzQCeIaFm
> lCy6PE0lavAKmbP2tZiycXA=
> =sVrI
> -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>
--
Regards Bill;
Fedora 9, Gnome 2.22.3
Evo.2.22.3.1, Emacs 22.2.1

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William Case wrote:

Hi g;

On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 18:32 +0000, g wrote:
William Case wrote:
<snip>

N.B. Tried to man 'network' -- no manual entry. Is there another name
to 'man' by?

[snip]


from following the many post for help with networking, one thing that
is apparent, 'network manager' is a good idea, but not without many
bugs. in most all of threads, main suggestion is 'turn it off'.


I too saw those posts.


i would have suggested this to you when i sent what i did on 'aopen',
accept that i thought it had already been suggested, which is usually
among first suggestions. from your last couple post, it became evident
that it was not.


To me, at the moment, the problem is not solved by turning
NetworkManager off. (It is off for the moment so I can do some other
work easily.) I consider it a bit of a challenge to either get it
working or finding out what the real 'bug' is.


rest assured, i am not trying to be 'off tone', 'snide', 'insulting',
or anything else of a negative attitude. just trying to offer you some
more help so you can enjoy a working linux system.

best to you.


"The Hell you say."






If you'd like to learn more about linux networking, do as I did. Go to
/etc/sysconfig/networking and /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts directories
and poke around. Look at the scriplets and scripts in there and see how
networking gets configured. In particular, look at the ifcfg-eth0
script and the ifup stuff. See how it all fits together.
system-config-network does little more than put these scripts together
so that your networking comes up properly configured upon bootup. ifup
should configure and start a network interface, while ifdown should shut
one down. (duh!) the command "ifup eth0" and "ifdown eth0" should
start and stop networking on eth0 if its been configured properly.


Lots of fun!

--
Kevin J. Cummings
kjchome@rcn.com
cummings@kjchome.homeip.net
cummings@kjc386.framingham.ma.us
Registered Linux User #1232 (http://counter.li.org)

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William Case wrote:
<snip>
>> "The Hell you say."
not his time.

- --

tc,hago.

g
.

in a free world without fences, who needs gates.

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On Wed, Aug 6, 2008 at 8:25 AM, William Case <billlinux@rogers.com> wrote:

Hi Kevin, Mikkel, Bruce et al;



NetWorkMangager was the culprit ...



On Wed, 2008-08-06 at 01:59 -0400, Kevin J. Cummings wrote:



> I just went back and looked, you have a wired ethernet setup. *Why are

> you using NetworkManager? *Have you tried disabling NetworkManager and

> starting up the "network" service in its place?



As you suggested, I turned off NetworkManger services. *After rebooting,

everything worked the way it should. No boot up warnings; browsers and

Evolution started online; all connections were made.



> (Unless you are somehow

> married to using NetworkManager....) *"sysconfig-config-network" can

> then be used to configure the ethernet card, even for DHCP from your

> router.



I am not married to NetworkManager but ...

It would be nice to have a simple tool for ordinary users to configure

their networks, large or small.



[snip]



>From various comments made on the list, and my recent experience

NetworkManager is not yet ready for prime time. *I was willing to spend

the time, and still am, to help sort out NetworkMangager problems for

small wired LANs.



Summary:



My problem seems to have boiled down to this:



* * 1. As originally installed by Ananconda, NetworkManager worked, or

* * * *at least did not interfere, with my household and Internet

* * * *networking.

* * 2. When I tried to make changes manually, NetworkManager could not

* * * *recognize those changes if correct, nor give appropriate

* * * *meaningful *warnings if incorrect, nor reflect the state of

* * * *things in any of its fields. *It just quit working and would not

* * * *restart even after corrections had been made from the

* * * *commandline.



Suggested Solution:

* * 1. The developers continue to work on NetworkManager so that it is

* * * *robust enough to handle people messing about with its settings

* * * *either from the command line or within the gui.

* * 2. Because networking is complex and confusing for users (I don't

* * * *limit this comment to newbies) the error analysis should be

* * * *meaningful.

* * 3. In fact, I think it is well within the capabilities of today's

* * * *developers to build a robost network setup analysis tool.

* * 4. I would like to see two frontends for NetworkManager. One that

* * * *is written in plain language with lots of 'Help' and tool tips

* * * *and with the minimum of technospeak. *And, a second frontend

* * * *that is for advanced users. *One of the advantages of FOSS is

* * * *that you can write several different 'thingies' to be used by

* * * *different types of users. *It doesn't have to be one size fits

* * * *all like M$.



I was taking this opportunity to finally learn some stuff about

networking, so I don't begrudge the time. *In fact, that is what got me

in trouble in the first place, screwing around with my settings to see

what they would do.



Up until now I was content to let my networks be set up automagically.

If something goes wrong in Linux/Fedora it is tough to figure out how to

fix it. *In M$, it is almost impossible to follow. *To me this is an

area where we (Fedora, Linux and FOSS) could excel.



If anybody thinks all this to-do has been worth filing a bug against

NetworkManager. I will file. *If it has just been a self-induced problem

solved by shutting NetworkManager off, I'll leave things alone. *Let me

know.





--

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Fedora 9, Gnome 2.22.3

Evo.2.22.3.1, Emacs 22.2.1



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I would file a bug.* Anything that gets some attention placed towards NetworkManager is worth it.* I ended up disabled NM because it would screw up my wireless connection.* I don't think NM is ready for prime time.* I would also like to see system-config-network interface to NM (if present) rather than providing a different interface so that there is a consistant gui for configuring the network.


Paolo

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