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Old 07-28-2008, 10:16 PM
David
 
Default New support lists?

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Anne Wilson wrote:
| On Monday 28 July 2008 20:15:54 Mike Chambers wrote:
|> Hi all,
|>
|> Reading the last couple emails from another thread on maybe new list or
|> two, and to segregate the content to them was brought up and have couple
|> new list names that might help make sense or to get the ball rolling?
|>
|> fedora-list(this one) - General Fedora talk, opinions, suggestions,
|> comments, distro wars, all that type stuff not support related.
|>
|> fedora-user-list or fedora-support-list - Bug references, problems with
|> software, computer won't boot, email don't work, firefox plugins not
|> working, etc.. where problems are asked about and responded to on
|> *official releases*.
|>
|> fedora-testers-list - as is, for testing alpha, beta, preview, rc
|> releases when preparing a new release.
|>
|> fedora-devel-list - as is, for development of fedora, and the rest that
|> is currently used on that list.
|>
|> See the url below for currently created lists already being used..
|>
|> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/
|>
|> Would this help make things better?
|>
| In theory, yes. In practice, not unless there is moderator support
for making
| sure that non-support threads go to the relevant list.


The users that this situation seriously effects are those still on
dial-up and those with limited bandwidth.

I think it is very, very, rude to carry on these types of OT discussions
under those conditions. They should go private IMO.

- --


~ David
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Old 07-28-2008, 11:21 PM
Ed Greshko
 
Default New support lists?

Anne Wilson wrote:

On Monday 28 July 2008 23:08:15 Aaron Konstam wrote:

On Mon, 2008-07-28 at 22:04 +0200, Anders Karlsson wrote:

* Anne Wilson <cannewilson@googlemail.com> [20080728 21:48]:

On Monday 28 July 2008 20:15:54 Mike Chambers wrote:

[snip]


Would this help make things better?

In theory, yes. In practice, not unless there is moderator support for
making sure that non-support threads go to the relevant list.

I'm sure we could manage that.

/Anders

I don't think we could handle that. This split is a really bad idea.


For some of us it is an excellent idea


Yes it is an excellent idea. But, sadly, it probably won't work since it
relies on reasonable humans to understand and be willing and able to
separate their posts among the newly created lists.



--
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Old 07-29-2008, 02:16 AM
Antonio Olivares
 
Default New support lists?

> > > No but it explains why this list has become more
> useless, in that my
> > > questions are not answered. The redhat/fedora
> discussion has existed on
> > > a single list for more than a decade and a half.
> Why does it need to be broken
> > > up now?
> >
> > Because there used to be 95% support and 5% chat. Now
> it's the reverse
> >
> > Anne
> That is because people can't control
> themselves and they won't do any
> better under the split system. I hope this > is an idea that will just die. I have enough > trouble monitoring the 5 or 6 lists I
> must monitor now.
> --
>

+1

Antonio




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Old 07-29-2008, 02:17 AM
Aaron Konstam
 
Default New support lists?

On Mon, 2008-07-28 at 22:16 +0100, Anne Wilson wrote:
> On Monday 28 July 2008 23:04:20 Aaron Konstam wrote:
> > No but it explains why this list has become more useless, in that my
> > questions are not answered. The redhat/fedora discussion has existed on
> > a single list for more than a decade and a half. Why does it need to be broken
> > up now?
>
> Because there used to be 95% support and 5% chat. Now it's the reverse
>
> Anne
That is because people can't control themselves and they won't do any
better under the split system. I hope this is an idea that will jut
die. I have enough trouble monitoring the 5 or 6 lists I must monitor
now.
--
================================================== =====================
Q: What is orange and goes "click, click?" A: A ball point carrot.
================================================== =====================
Aaron Konstam telephone: (210) 656-0355 e-mail: akonstam@sbcglobal.net

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Old 07-29-2008, 04:16 AM
"linux.whiz@gmail.com"
 
Default New support lists?

On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 2:15 PM, Mike Chambers <mike@miketc.net> wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> Reading the last couple emails from another thread on maybe new list or
> two, and to segregate the content to them was brought up and have couple
> new list names that might help make sense or to get the ball rolling?
>
> fedora-list(this one) - General Fedora talk, opinions, suggestions,
> comments, distro wars, all that type stuff not support related.
>
> fedora-user-list or fedora-support-list - Bug references, problems with
> software, computer won't boot, email don't work, firefox plugins not
> working, etc.. where problems are asked about and responded to on
> *official releases*.
>
> fedora-testers-list - as is, for testing alpha, beta, preview, rc
> releases when preparing a new release.
>
> fedora-devel-list - as is, for development of fedora, and the rest that
> is currently used on that list.
>
> See the url below for currently created lists already being used..
>
> https://listman.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/
>
> Would this help make things better?

Not really. This list worked great until Alexandre hijacked it. He
needs to be booted for persisting in spewing all that OT shit into our
mailboxes after being asked repeatedly to stop.

I used to be ambivalent about the "Free Software" folks vs. the "Open
Source" folks. I'd like to congratulate Alexandre for fucking that
ambivalence. I now understand why the "Free Software" folks get
laughed at so hard, so often.

And my opinion of Red Hat is shit now, since they have a
representative like Alexandre fronting for them.

What a dipshit. Educated, maybe, but dumb as a rock.

LW

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Old 07-29-2008, 06:41 AM
Ric Moore
 
Default New support lists?

On Mon, 2008-07-28 at 23:16 -0500, linux.whiz@gmail.com wrote:

> Not really. This list worked great until Alexandre hijacked it. He
> needs to be booted for persisting in spewing all that OT shit into our
> mailboxes after being asked repeatedly to stop.
>
> I used to be ambivalent about the "Free Software" folks vs. the "Open
> Source" folks. I'd like to congratulate Alexandre for fucking that
> ambivalence. I now understand why the "Free Software" folks get
> laughed at so hard, so often.
>
> And my opinion of Red Hat is shit now, since they have a
> representative like Alexandre fronting for them.

Here's a quote from the new CEO of RedHat, Jim Whitehurst:

Red Hat appealed to me. Red Hat is different. By doing well as a company
at Red Hat, we are doing good. Open source is a way to focus on the
customer, letting us grow, succeed, and change the technology
landscape...all while doing something that is fundamentally good.
Fighting for open standards and open formats. These things will change
society. I'm thrilled to be here.

See the words "Open Source"? There's still hope. Ric

--
----------------------------------------------------
My father, Victor Moore (Vic) used to say:
"There are two Great Sins in the world...
..the Sin of Ignorance, and the Sin of Stupidity.
Only the former may be overcome." R.I.P. Dad.
Linux user# 44256 Sign up at: http://counter.li.org/
http://www.sourceforge.net/projects/oar
https://oar.dev.java.net/
Verizon Cell # 336-254-1339
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Old 07-29-2008, 07:20 AM
Tim
 
Default New support lists?

On Mon, 2008-07-28 at 14:15 -0500, Mike Chambers wrote:
> Reading the last couple emails from another thread on maybe new list
> or two, and to segregate the content to them was brought up and have
> couple new list names that might help make sense or to get the ball
> rolling?

Start a new list for something different, don't re-purpose an existing
list. i.e. Keep fedora-list as it always was (a general user support
list), and create some other chit-chat / advocacy lists for those who
want to continue an off-topic chat.

Though, having said that. There's already plenty of other places that
people can have their off-topics and rampant advocacy evangelising.
Some of them have their very own websites. They could all piss off,
over there, right now. But they won't, because they won't to romp in
and change everyone else's opinion to their own.

--
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -r
2.6.25.11-97.fc9.i686

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I
read messages from the public lists.



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Old 07-29-2008, 09:17 AM
Alan Cox
 
Default New support lists?

> And my opinion of Red Hat is shit now, since they have a
> representative like Alexandre fronting for them.

Red Hat doesn't. Alexandra just persists in abusing his redhat.com
address to advertise his own BLAG distribution in the wrong place.

He has been asked not to do that, and I imagine stronger persuasion to
take up such things using his personal email elsewhere will occur if he
doesn't.

Alan

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Old 07-29-2008, 09:26 AM
Alan Cox
 
Default New support lists?

> I used to be ambivalent about the "Free Software" folks vs. the "Open
> Source" folks. I'd like to congratulate Alexandre for fucking that
> ambivalence. I now understand why the "Free Software" folks get
> laughed at so hard, so often.

I'll make one other comment here. Most 'Free Software' people I know (and
I count myself as one) share your view of GNU/Alexandre and wish quite
frankly he was a microsoft fanboy instead as he'd do more good for Free
and Open Source software that way.

Alan

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Old 07-29-2008, 11:18 AM
Anne Wilson
 
Default New support lists?

On Tuesday 29 July 2008 00:21:22 Ed Greshko wrote:
> Anne Wilson wrote:
> > On Monday 28 July 2008 23:08:15 Aaron Konstam wrote:
> >> On Mon, 2008-07-28 at 22:04 +0200, Anders Karlsson wrote:
> >>> * Anne Wilson <cannewilson@googlemail.com> [20080728 21:48]:
> >>>> On Monday 28 July 2008 20:15:54 Mike Chambers wrote:
> >>>
> >>> [snip]
> >>>
> >>>>> Would this help make things better?
> >>>>
> >>>> In theory, yes. In practice, not unless there is moderator support
> >>>> for making sure that non-support threads go to the relevant list.
> >>>
> >>> I'm sure we could manage that.
> >>>
> >>> /Anders
> >>
> >> I don't think we could handle that. This split is a really bad idea.
> >
> > For some of us it is an excellent idea
>
> Yes it is an excellent idea. But, sadly, it probably won't work since it
> relies on reasonable humans to understand and be willing and able to
> separate their posts among the newly created lists.
>
Or a moderator willing to kick off anyone who refuses to comply

Anne


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