David Boles wrote:

>> But what is the point of having large numbers of passwords,
>> if one password will open all the locks?
>
> Gee Timothy. Do you lock all of the doors on your house with the same key?
> And your auto? How about the office door(s)? All with the same key?

But that is exactly my point.
One key - the KDE wallet key - _will_ open all the locks on my computer.

Mikkel has suggested one advantage, if I am using several systems.
But as it happens, I am not - all the passwords at issue
are on one computer.

> You 'lock' everything with the same key and then the key is stolen and/or
> cracked. Does that mean that you are really, really open then? ;-)

Again, that is exactly _my_ point.
If someone does get my KDE wallet key then they can open every lock
on my computer, as far as I can see.



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Timothy Murphy wrote:
> Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
> > So if your password on one system gets compromised, it does not
> > compromise your password on other systems.
>
> OK, that seems a valid point, but does not actually apply to me,
> as all the passwords in question in my case are on one computer.

Really? Well, *maybe* you don't have any email accounts on any servers but
receive all your email directly to your workstation, but if Network Manager
needs a key from the Gnome keyring, then it's because your wireless network
requires an access key, so that key isn't local to your computer.

Björn Persson

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Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:

>> But what is the point of having large numbers of passwords,
>> if one password will open all the locks?
>>
> So if your password on one system gets compromised, it does not
> compromise your password on other systems.

OK, that seems a valid point, but does not actually apply to me,
as all the passwords in question in my case are on one computer.

> And your keyring password is less likely to get compromised
> because it normally does not travel over the Internet.

I guess that is also a valid point, though not very applicable
in my case, I think.

> You also do not
> have to try and remember all the different passwords, so you will
> hopefully not use the same password for everything.

That I don't understand.
Surely if I forget a password it ceases to be of much value to me?
I guess I could write them all down and keep them at home.

Incidentally, I would not trust KDE wallet with any vital,
eg financial, information, as I do not know how it works.
I prefer to use some encryption method I can understand.

Anyway, thanks for your explication.
You have convinced me (just) that KDE wallet is a useful tool.

I still find the keyring used by NM a pointless nuisance, though.
I just want to get connected without any action on my part.








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Timothy Murphy wrote:

Again, that is exactly _my_ point.
If someone does get my KDE wallet key then they can open every lock
on my computer, as far as I can see.


which is why in using a 'wallet', it should have strongest password.

an easy way to derive a strong password that you do not have to write
down is to come up with a sentence and use 1st, 2nd, 3rd, what ever
letter of each word as you password and throw in numbers and special
symbols to add strength to it.

this should be done for your login password to make it harder for
someone to get to your wallet.


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Timothy Murphy wrote:

That I don't understand.
Surely if I forget a password it ceases to be of much value to me?
I guess I could write them all down and keep them at home.


better to carry with you. in your head is better.


I prefer to use some encryption method I can understand.


encryption for a password? even more hard to remember. see my reply to
other post in this thread.


I still find the keyring used by NM a pointless nuisance, though.
I just want to get connected without any action on my part.


laziness is not security.

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On Sun, 2008-07-20 at 19:00 -0300, Marcelo Magno T. Sales wrote:
> It's better to use distinct passwords for most important things.

Most definitely. And, in many cases, it's impossible to use the same
password for everything, as they have different rules.

Some daft ones only let you use passwords six to eight characters long,
other more sensible ones insist on something longer...

Of course, it does get a pain having to remember dozens of passwords for
different services, and that's where these password storage gadgets come
into their own. You use one password to authorise use of your password
store, and it provides the right password to the service that you want
to use, getting your computer to do the grunt work for you. You should,
also, have some backup, so *you* know your passwords, and can access
things without the password storage service.

I'm not sure why you'd object to it. Do you also refuse to let programs
store passwords? Do you type in your ISP access password each time you
connect to the internet? Do you type in your POP/IMAP password each
time you read your email? Do you type in your IM passwords each time
you start up pidgin/aim/skype/whatever...?

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On Mon, 2008-07-21 at 13:47 +0100, Timothy Murphy wrote:
> But I still find NM's request for a password very annoying.
> WiFi is my link to the Real World, and I just want it to start up
> when I log in.
>
> Actually I have Fedora set up to log me in automatically without
> password.

That may be your problem. Logically speaking, there should be at least
one password to protect it. Whether that be you logging into your
desktop, or you typing in the keyring password after an auto-login.

I have seen others write about getting their system so they didn't have
to type in a keyring password, but I don't recall whether any of them
had a password-less desktop log-in, as well.

> I do not suffer from the paranoia that seems endemic among IT gurus.

No house guests? No smart-alec friends who'll set your desktop
wallpaper to show naked hairy guys? Heck, even I'd be tempted to prank
some friends, if I could find a funny picture that I wouldn't get a
punch in the face for it. And I did pay out Mum with various animal
noise sound effects on her Windows PC.

I actually had to undo the hairy guy example on someone's Windows PC, a
few years back. Every time he booted, these two guys flashed up for a
moment, then disappeared to be replaced by *his* choice of wallpaper.

He didn't know about the difference between active desktop wallpaper,
and wallpaper without active desktop. He couldn't work out how to
remove the unwanted picture, he thought choosing his own picture would
fix it. But one goes on top of the other, his choice was applied to the
active desktop, which starts a few moments later, on top of the plain
desktop.

Naturally, seeing as I had an audience of two more people, and several
reboots would be needed to sort out his system, I left that little gem
as the last thing to repair.

Methinks he'll be very careful about right-click save-as-wallpaper in
his web browser in the future. ;-)

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2.6.25.10-86.fc9.i686

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Tim wrote:

> I'm not sure why you'd object to it. Do you also refuse to let programs
> store passwords? Do you type in your ISP access password each time you
> connect to the internet? Do you type in your POP/IMAP password each
> time you read your email? Do you type in your IM passwords each time
> you start up pidgin/aim/skype/whatever...?

OK, you have convinced me.
I will never say a rude word about KDE wallet again.

But I still find NM's request for a password very annoying.
WiFi is my link to the Real World, and I just want it to start up
when I log in.

Actually I have Fedora set up to log me in automatically without password.
I do not suffer from the paranoia that seems endemic among IT gurus.
In my view the probability of any of my neighbours listening in
is negligible, and I have much more important things to worry about,
like my cholesterol level and global warming.






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Timothy Murphy <gayleard <at> eircom.net> writes:
> I will never say a rude word about KDE wallet again.
>
> But I still find NM's request for a password very annoying.

That's because of gnome-keyring's designer's stupid arrogance not to allow
passwordless keyrings (unlike KWallet which empowers the user). Instead, we're
stuck with some PAM hackery which allows reusing the login password, which
obviously won't work if you use autologin, and which doesn't appear to be
working properly with KDM even if you don't. This is part of why I'm really
hoping for a KDE alternative to nm-applet which supports KWallet to come out
soon.

Kevin Kofler

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On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 8:21 AM, Kevin Kofler <kevin.kofler@chello.at> wrote:

> That's because of gnome-keyring's designer's stupid arrogance not to allow
> passwordless keyrings (unlike KWallet which empowers the user). Instead, we're
> stuck with some PAM hackery which allows reusing the login password, which
> obviously won't work if you use autologin, and which doesn't appear to be
> working properly with KDM even if you don't. This is part of why I'm really
> hoping for a KDE alternative to nm-applet which supports KWallet to come out
> soon.

knetworkmanager?


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