Hi All,

* I can not find laptop or desktop hardware that supports KVM Virtualization (Intel-VT or AMD-V).
I like Dell laptops but there is no information regarding hardware assisted virtualization (Hypervisor).

Can I get some recommendation?

Thanks,
-Alex

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On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 08:15:29 -0400
"Alex Katebi" <alex.katebi@gmail.com> wrote:

> I like Dell laptops but there is no information regarding hardware assisted
> virtualization (Hypervisor).

First, it is important to note that I may be completely wrong :-),
but I don't think anyone makes chips any longer without the virtual
support instructions, so odds are good that any machine made in the
last few months will do all the VM instructions.

Second, you'll get all the purists upset if you use the term
"hypervisor" in association with KVM :-). The whole point of KVM
is that it isn't a hypervisor, it is just regular old linux.

P.S. If you want to get fanatical, I bet you could find the details
of which cpu chips are used in the support section of dell's website,
then cross reference that with the intel docs to verify the chip
has VM support.

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On Sun, 2008-07-20 at 08:15 -0400, Alex Katebi wrote:
> Hi All,
>
> I can not find laptop or desktop hardware that supports KVM
> Virtualization (Intel-VT or AMD-V).
> I like Dell laptops but there is no information regarding hardware
> assisted virtualization (Hypervisor).
> Can I get some recommendation?

Actually this isn't as hard as it sounds if you're looking to buy a
*new* laptop. Pretty much anything out there today supports Intel VT /
AMD-V now. The main thing you'll need to make sure of is that you have
enabled this in the BIOS. There are quite a few systems that still ship
with this feature disabled for some reason.

As to Dell laptops, I like the Latitude series myself. They're well
supported by F9 generally speaking. Have a closer look at the Latitude
D830 or the XPS M1530.

While you're at it, be sure to check out the other brands as well.
HP/Compaq has some nice things to offer - I'm running F9 on an 8510w
now, and while they are still a bit "controversial" in terms of openly
supporting Linux, IBM/Lenovo is catching up somewhat (but I think they
still tend to be a bit pricey for what you get - just my opinion
though).

Cheers,

Chris


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come from people who have the habit
of making excuses."

--George Washington Carver

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On Sun, 2008-07-20 at 09:37 -0400, Tom Horsley wrote:
> On Sun, 20 Jul 2008 08:15:29 -0400
> "Alex Katebi" <alex.katebi@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I like Dell laptops but there is no information regarding hardware assisted
> > virtualization (Hypervisor).
>
> First, it is important to note that I may be completely wrong :-),
> but I don't think anyone makes chips any longer without the virtual
> support instructions, so odds are good that any machine made in the
> last few months will do all the VM instructions.
>
> Second, you'll get all the purists upset if you use the term
> "hypervisor" in association with KVM :-). The whole point of KVM
> is that it isn't a hypervisor, it is just regular old linux.

Hunh...??? Saying that KVM is not a hypervisor is needlessly splitting
hairs. Quote from the KVM folks from the Linux Symposium 2007
Proceedings, held June 27-30 in Ottawa, Ontario (Canada):

The Kernel-based Virtual Machine, or kvm, is a new
Linux subsystem which leverages these virtualization
extensions to add a virtual machine monitor (or hypervisor)
capability to Linux.

In other words, by leveraging the Intel VT and AMD/V hardware extensions
available in newer processors, KVM enables Linux to *be* the hypervisor.

If you look closely hypervisor technology and architectures, you'll see
that every stand-alone hypervisor (like VMware ESX/ESXi) is essentially
a mini-OS of sorts. Others, like VMware Workstation, VMware Server, and
VirtualBox, add a hypervisor layer on top of the OS (as opposed to in
the OS).

KVM gives the Linux kernel it's own hypervisor capability while
providing all of the benefits that Linux already has. Thus you get the
capability of a stand-alone hypervisor while getting rid of the need to
write / re-write (or for that matter, learn) a lot of other things that
a separate stand-alone hypervisor would have to have. This is what gives
KVM a significant and interesting advantage in the machine
virtualization field.

Cheers,

Chris


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Christopher A. Williams wrote:

On Sun, 2008-07-20 at 08:15 -0400, Alex Katebi wrote:

Hi All,

I can not find laptop or desktop hardware that supports KVM
Virtualization (Intel-VT or AMD-V).
I like Dell laptops but there is no information regarding hardware
assisted virtualization (Hypervisor).
Can I get some recommendation?


Actually this isn't as hard as it sounds if you're looking to buy a
*new* laptop. Pretty much anything out there today supports Intel VT /
AMD-V now. The main thing you'll need to make sure of is that you have
enabled this in the BIOS. There are quite a few systems that still ship
with this feature disabled for some reason.


Actually, Intel only enables it on the high-end Core2 chips, so you need to get
a chip that's at least somewhat high-end, or at least that was high-end when
first introduced on the market. Dell clearly identifies these with 'VT' in the
processor description. You do *not* need V-pro support. That's just for a
BIOS-based hypervisor that Intel offers for management, mostly for corporate
desktops.


AMD isn't so cryptic about it. Any current-generation Athlon64 X2 will have
hardware virtualization support, as far as I'm aware.



As to Dell laptops, I like the Latitude series myself. They're well
supported by F9 generally speaking. Have a closer look at the Latitude
D830 or the XPS M1530.

While you're at it, be sure to check out the other brands as well.
HP/Compaq has some nice things to offer - I'm running F9 on an 8510w
now, and while they are still a bit "controversial" in terms of openly
supporting Linux, IBM/Lenovo is catching up somewhat (but I think they
still tend to be a bit pricey for what you get - just my opinion
though).

Cheers,

Chris


--
====================================
"Ninety-nine percent of the failures
come from people who have the habit
of making excuses."

--George Washington Carver



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Chris Snook wrote:

Christopher A. Williams wrote:

On Sun, 2008-07-20 at 08:15 -0400, Alex Katebi wrote:

Hi All,

I can not find laptop or desktop hardware that supports KVM
Virtualization (Intel-VT or AMD-V).
I like Dell laptops but there is no information regarding hardware
assisted virtualization (Hypervisor).
Can I get some recommendation?


Actually this isn't as hard as it sounds if you're looking to buy a
*new* laptop. Pretty much anything out there today supports Intel VT /
AMD-V now. The main thing you'll need to make sure of is that you have
enabled this in the BIOS. There are quite a few systems that still ship
with this feature disabled for some reason.


Actually, Intel only enables it on the high-end Core2 chips, so you
need to get a chip that's at least somewhat high-end, or at least that
was high-end when first introduced on the market. Dell clearly
identifies these with 'VT' in the processor description. You do *not*
need V-pro support. That's just for a BIOS-based hypervisor that
Intel offers for management, mostly for corporate desktops.



No only that, but Dell goes to great pains to HIDE the virtualization
enabler switch in the BIOS. It can be under POST or CPU. And it is
always OFF by default.


Good Luck!

PS A a new Dell laptop is on order, and I won't know for sure if it
supports KVM until its on and working. And it needs to. There are 4
VMs that are needed to run from time to time.


There have been several systems received where virtualization should
have been available, but the BIOS simply didn't show it, although the
CPU has the exact same part number as other that do work. BIOS versions
were also identical.


YMMV, but Dell platinum support is ignorant of intel VT, or AMD VM
supported virtualization, its uses, how to enable it, or any other thing
about it.



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On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 9:37 AM, Christopher A. Williams <chriswfedora@cawllc.com> wrote:

On Sun, 2008-07-20 at 08:15 -0400, Alex Katebi wrote:

> Hi All,

>

> * I can not find laptop or desktop hardware that supports KVM

> Virtualization (Intel-VT or AMD-V).

> I like Dell laptops but there is no information regarding hardware

> assisted virtualization (Hypervisor).

> Can I get some recommendation?



Actually this isn't as hard as it sounds if you're looking to buy a

*new* laptop. Pretty much anything out there today supports Intel VT /

AMD-V now. The main thing you'll need to make sure of is that you have

enabled this in the BIOS. There are quite a few systems that still ship

with this feature disabled for some reason.
Hi Chris,

** Actually I prefer to buy a used Dell Latitude D630 or maybe an XPS M1530 from Ebay.* Dual Core 2.0 or better. Is the CPU VT and BIOS supports the VT for these models?


Thanks!
-Alex
*



As to Dell laptops, I like the Latitude series myself. They're well

supported by F9 generally speaking. Have a closer look at the Latitude

D830 or the XPS M1530.



While you're at it, be sure to check out the other brands as well.

HP/Compaq has some nice things to offer - I'm running F9 on an 8510w

now, and while they are still a bit "controversial" in terms of openly

supporting Linux, IBM/Lenovo is catching up somewhat (but I think they

still tend to be a bit pricey for what you get - just my opinion

though).



Cheers,



Chris





--

====================================

"Ninety-nine percent of the failures

come from people who have the habit

of making excuses."



--George Washington Carver



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On Mon, 2008-07-21 at 17:00 -0400, Alex Katebi wrote:
> On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 9:37 AM, Christopher A. Williams
> <chriswfedora@cawllc.com> wrote:
>
> On Sun, 2008-07-20 at 08:15 -0400, Alex Katebi wrote:
> > Hi All,
> >
> > I can not find laptop or desktop hardware that supports
> KVM
> > Virtualization (Intel-VT or AMD-V).
> > I like Dell laptops but there is no information regarding
> hardware
> > assisted virtualization (Hypervisor).
> > Can I get some recommendation?
>
>
> Actually this isn't as hard as it sounds if you're looking to
> buy a
> *new* laptop. Pretty much anything out there today supports
> Intel VT /
> AMD-V now. The main thing you'll need to make sure of is that
> you have
> enabled this in the BIOS. There are quite a few systems that
> still ship
> with this feature disabled for some reason.
>
> Hi Chris,
>
> Actually I prefer to buy a used Dell Latitude D630 or maybe an XPS
> M1530 from Ebay. Dual Core 2.0 or better. Is the CPU VT and BIOS
> supports the VT for these models?

Someone already answered this, but yes, most all dual-core Intel
processors should be OK. The challenge is going to be making sure you
have VT enabled in BIOS. That can be an interesting mystery to solve
with Dell systems.

Cheers,

Chris


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If you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher.

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Yes I did check couple of D630 from friends and the BIOS POST has the Virtualization option.
Thanks to everyone for helping out. I want to install Fedora on it as the Host OS, then run Fedora & Windows as guests OS. Has anyone done this?


Thanks,
-Alex

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 5:05 PM, Christopher A. Williams <chriswfedora@cawllc.com> wrote:

On Mon, 2008-07-21 at 17:00 -0400, Alex Katebi wrote:

> On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 9:37 AM, Christopher A. Williams

> <chriswfedora@cawllc.com> wrote:

>

> * * * * On Sun, 2008-07-20 at 08:15 -0400, Alex Katebi wrote:

> * * * * > Hi All,

> * * * * >

> * * * * > * I can not find laptop or desktop hardware that supports

> * * * * KVM

> * * * * > Virtualization (Intel-VT or AMD-V).

> * * * * > I like Dell laptops but there is no information regarding

> * * * * hardware

> * * * * > assisted virtualization (Hypervisor).

> * * * * > Can I get some recommendation?

>

>

> * * * * Actually this isn't as hard as it sounds if you're looking to

> * * * * buy a

> * * * * *new* laptop. Pretty much anything out there today supports

> * * * * Intel VT /

> * * * * AMD-V now. The main thing you'll need to make sure of is that

> * * * * you have

> * * * * enabled this in the BIOS. There are quite a few systems that

> * * * * still ship

> * * * * with this feature disabled for some reason.

>

> Hi Chris,

>

> * *Actually I prefer to buy a used Dell Latitude D630 or maybe an XPS

> M1530 from Ebay. *Dual Core 2.0 or better. Is the CPU VT and BIOS

> supports the VT for these models?



Someone already answered this, but yes, most all dual-core Intel

processors should be OK. The challenge is going to be making sure you

have VT enabled in BIOS. That can be an interesting mystery to solve

with Dell systems.



Cheers,



Chris





--

==================================

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If you get a good wife, you'll be happy.

If you get a bad one, you'll become a philosopher.



--Socrates



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Thanks for the DELL BIOS POST information!
-Alex

On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 1:38 PM, Phil Meyer <pmeyer@themeyerfarm.com> wrote:

Chris Snook wrote:


Christopher A. Williams wrote:


On Sun, 2008-07-20 at 08:15 -0400, Alex Katebi wrote:


Hi All,



*I can not find laptop or desktop hardware that supports KVM

Virtualization (Intel-VT or AMD-V).

I like Dell laptops but there is no information regarding hardware

assisted virtualization (Hypervisor).

Can I get some recommendation?




Actually this isn't as hard as it sounds if you're looking to buy a

*new* laptop. Pretty much anything out there today supports Intel VT /

AMD-V now. The main thing you'll need to make sure of is that you have

enabled this in the BIOS. There are quite a few systems that still ship

with this feature disabled for some reason.




Actually, Intel only enables it on the high-end Core2 chips, so you need to get a chip that's at least somewhat high-end, or at least that was high-end when first introduced on the market. *Dell clearly identifies these with 'VT' in the processor description. *You do *not* need V-pro support. *That's just for a BIOS-based hypervisor that Intel offers for management, mostly for corporate desktops.







No only that, but Dell goes to great pains to HIDE the virtualization enabler switch in the BIOS. *It can be under POST or CPU. *And it is always OFF by default.



Good Luck!



PS *A a new Dell laptop is on order, and I won't know for sure if it supports KVM until its on and working. *And it needs to. *There are 4 VMs that are needed to run from time to time.



There have been several systems received where virtualization should have been available, but the BIOS simply didn't show it, although the CPU has the exact same part number as other that do work. *BIOS versions were also identical.




YMMV, but Dell platinum support is ignorant of intel VT, or AMD VM supported virtualization, its uses, how to enable it, or any other thing about it.





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