While I think of it, it's a minor annoyance, but when I install KDE and
am already using GNOME, all of the KDE menu entries are all mixed in
together with GNOMES.


This has irked me since a few Fedora releases ago. I like to keep them
separate and like to have both desktops installed. Is there a way to
accomplish this?


Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure this wasn't always the case?


p.s. Kind of another question and probably deserves another post, but
being green and cutting down on list traffic, here goes ... What is the
idea of or notion behind firstboot? why can't the questions it asks be
done in the installer like it used to be like as was Red Hat 7.3 - just
wondering.


Thanks.


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Stewart Williams <lists <at> pinkyboots.co.uk> writes:
> While I think of it, it's a minor annoyance, but when I install KDE and
> am already using GNOME, all of the KDE menu entries are all mixed in
> together with GNOMES.

That's a feature. KDE apps work just fine in GNOME and vice-versa (thanks to
the powers of X11).

Kevin Kofler

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On Sat, 2008-07-19 at 22:33 +0100, Stewart Williams wrote:
> While I think of it, it's a minor annoyance, but when I install KDE and
> am already using GNOME, all of the KDE menu entries are all mixed in
> together with GNOMES.
>
> This has irked me since a few Fedora releases ago. I like to keep them
> separate and like to have both desktops installed. Is there a way to
> accomplish this?

Manually edit your menus, and repeat after any software updates?

I prefer the opposite. If I want to run *some* program, I want to be
able to find it easily, e.g. look for gimp in the graphics menu. I
don't want to have to separately wade through KDE or Gnome menus. I
always found the KDE menus to be quite a mess, so that was another nail
in the coffin for me using KDE.

> p.s. Kind of another question and probably deserves another post, but
> being green and cutting down on list traffic, here goes ... What is the
> idea of or notion behind firstboot? why can't the questions it asks be
> done in the installer like it used to be like as was Red Hat 7.3 - just
> wondering.

I would imagine it makes it easier to simply install to a collection of
boxes, identically, then configure individually.

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On Sun, 2008-07-20 at 16:04 +0930, Tim wrote:
> I always found the KDE menus to be quite a mess, so that was another
> nail in the coffin for me using KDE.

A total mess actually. However KDE4 is much better, and among other
goodies has the huge advantage of letting you search in the menu system
so you don't have to remember where everything is.

poc

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Tim:
>> I always found the KDE menus to be quite a mess, so that was another
>> nail in the coffin for me using KDE.

Patrick O'Callaghan:
> A total mess actually. However KDE4 is much better, and among other
> goodies has the huge advantage of letting you search in the menu system
> so you don't have to remember where everything is.

To me, having to open something then search for something is a really
tedious work around to having well organised menus, in the first place.

Simple:
graphics - image viewer
or:
sound & video - VLC media player

No click navigate, click navigate, click navigate...
Nor, click, navigate, navigate, navigate, send out the search party...
Nor, click, navigate, wait, start typing, wait...
Nor, click in the box, start typing...

Mousing's bad enough, without having to pick up the mouse to do start to
do something that requires going back to using the keyboard.

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2.6.25.10-86.fc9.i686

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On Mon, 2008-07-21 at 00:51 +0930, Tim wrote:
> Tim:
> >> I always found the KDE menus to be quite a mess, so that was another
> >> nail in the coffin for me using KDE.
>
> Patrick O'Callaghan:
> > A total mess actually. However KDE4 is much better, and among other
> > goodies has the huge advantage of letting you search in the menu system
> > so you don't have to remember where everything is.
>
> To me, having to open something then search for something is a really
> tedious work around to having well organised menus, in the first place.
>
> Simple:
> graphics - image viewer
> or:
> sound & video - VLC media player
>
> No click navigate, click navigate, click navigate...
> Nor, click, navigate, navigate, navigate, send out the search party...
> Nor, click, navigate, wait, start typing, wait...
> Nor, click in the box, start typing...
>
> Mousing's bad enough, without having to pick up the mouse to do start to
> do something that requires going back to using the keyboard.

Have you used KDE4? It's one click on the Menu, type a substring, then
click on one of the results.

poc

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Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:

>> I always found the KDE menus to be quite a mess, so that was another
>> nail in the coffin for me using KDE.
>
> A total mess actually. However KDE4 is much better, and among other
> goodies has the huge advantage of letting you search in the menu system
> so you don't have to remember where everything is.

I agree, this is very nice.

But I still find the menu arrangement rather puzzling.
Why do I find Paired Bluetooth Devices under Lost and Found?
Why is Terminal under System, while Display is under Administration?

I hate to say it, but Windows Control Center is so much better organized.




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Timothy Murphy wrote:

> But I still find the menu arrangement rather puzzling.
> Why do I find Paired Bluetooth Devices under Lost and Found?
> Why is Terminal under System, while Display is under Administration?

It's no mystery, and definitely not rocket-science.

Apps' .desktop files include app "Categories", and the menu system displays them accordingly. Lost and Found is where apps go that don't adhere to the menu-spec (ie, it's a bug).

See also:
http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/latest/

-- Rex


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On Sun, 2008-07-20 at 12:17 -0430, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote:
> Have you used KDE4?

No, and I'm not likely to.

> It's one click on the Menu, type a substring, then click on one of the
> results.

That's still alternating between mouse and keyboard. That's bad
ergonomics.

Menus should be a quick thing to do, that's *NOT. That's convoluted and
delaying.

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2.6.25.10-86.fc9.i686

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Rex Dieter wrote:

> Timothy Murphy wrote:
>
>> But I still find the menu arrangement rather puzzling.
>> Why do I find Paired Bluetooth Devices under Lost and Found?
>> Why is Terminal under System, while Display is under Administration?
>
> It's no mystery, and definitely not rocket-science.
>
> Apps' .desktop files include app "Categories", and the menu system
> displays them accordingly. Lost and Found is where apps go that don't
> adhere to the menu-spec (ie, it's a bug).
>
> See also:
> http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/latest/

I realize the category is specified in the .desktop file.

I looked at the document above, and didn't find it really answered my query.
In any case, Fedora does not seem to follow the categories suggested there.

In my view, the categories listed in the main Fedora menu
are not well-chosen.
In my main menu I have (among others) Administration, Utilities, Settings,
System and Development.
Maybe I am missing some kind of mental discrimination,
but I have no idea which of these categories a given application
will fall into.
By contrast, I very rarely have this problem
with the Windows XP Control Center,
which seems to me much better thought out.

I do agree, though, that the search facility in the Fedora 9 KDE menu
is a very good innovation.



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