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Old 07-10-2008, 04:40 PM
sean darcy
 
Default NetworkManager: How to set caching nameserver?

NM sets my nameserver based on the isp, which is _very_ slow. I've set
up a local caching nameserver which works well. But how do I tell NM to
use 127.0.0.1??


I've set up dhclient.conf with a prepend statement. If I just run
dhclient that works, i.e. /etc/resolv.conf has the local nameserver. But
if I just start NM, it doesn't. It looks like NM tells /sbin/dhclient
not to use the .conf file.


So now I manually edit the resolv.conf file. How can I configure NM to
use the local nameserver?


sean

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Old 07-10-2008, 05:10 PM
sean darcy
 
Default NetworkManager: How to set caching nameserver?

sean darcy wrote:
NM sets my nameserver based on the isp, which is _very_ slow. I've set
up a local caching nameserver which works well. But how do I tell NM to
use 127.0.0.1??


I've set up dhclient.conf with a prepend statement. If I just run
dhclient that works, i.e. /etc/resolv.conf has the local nameserver. But
if I just start NM, it doesn't. It looks like NM tells /sbin/dhclient
not to use the .conf file.


So now I manually edit the resolv.conf file. How can I configure NM to
use the local nameserver?


sean

And yes, I did try the DNS box in the NM edit connection box. But that
appends the local nameserver to the isp nameserver. I want the caching
nameserver to be prepended - that is, come first.


sean

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Old 07-10-2008, 08:58 PM
"Michael H. Warfield"
 
Default NetworkManager: How to set caching nameserver?

On Thu, 2008-07-10 at 13:10 -0400, sean darcy wrote:
> sean darcy wrote:
> > NM sets my nameserver based on the isp, which is _very_ slow. I've set
> > up a local caching nameserver which works well. But how do I tell NM to
> > use 127.0.0.1??
> >
> > I've set up dhclient.conf with a prepend statement. If I just run
> > dhclient that works, i.e. /etc/resolv.conf has the local nameserver. But
> > if I just start NM, it doesn't. It looks like NM tells /sbin/dhclient
> > not to use the .conf file.
> >
> > So now I manually edit the resolv.conf file. How can I configure NM to
> > use the local nameserver?
> >
> > sean
> >
> And yes, I did try the DNS box in the NM edit connection box. But that
> appends the local nameserver to the isp nameserver. I want the caching
> nameserver to be prepended - that is, come first.

This is exactly the problem I run into with my corporate VPN (AT&T
proprietary SSL based POS). I have to set up dnsmasq to forward only
certain requests down the VPN (DNS is ssslllooowww down the VPN) and
certain requests to my local (IPv6) name servers and the rest through
normal resolution. I've been searching for a solution myself.
Unfortunately, all the solutions I've been able to find are outdated and
already subverted by the NetworkManager developers (dhclient-script
hooks no longer function with the current verion of NetworkMangler).

I have a longer rant that I'm strongly tempted to send. NetworkManager
is an ill behaved application which refuses to honor any of the past
configuration options and scripting hooks. They've gone so far as to
replace the old dhclient script "/sbin/dhclient-script" with their own
uneditible binary when they invoke dhclient.

My solution, at this point, is "yum erase NetworkManger" and then go
back to the older scripts which WORK and work reliably.

Unless you're having problems with wireless (and there are better
solutions to that problem) NetworkManager has no advantages over the
ifup/ifdown scripts and a whole lot of disadvantages for those of us who
have custom configurations.

I've removed NetworkManger even from my laptop where I do move from
network to network and wired to wireless, because I can not tolerate its
behavior and its refusal to respect configuration options and
established scripting principles. It's just not worth the headaches it
creates, even in that environment.

You're only other choice at this point appears to be run the command
"chattr -i /etc/resolve.conf". That is, until they figure that one out
as well and make NetworkManager immutable aware and try to remove that
in another "screw you, we know better than you" manuver.

> sean

Mike
--
Michael H. Warfield (AI4NB) | (770) 985-6132 | mhw@WittsEnd.com
//|=mhw=|// | (678) 463-0932 | http://www.wittsend.com/mhw/
NIC whois: MHW9 | An optimist believes we live in the best of all
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Old 07-10-2008, 09:54 PM
stan
 
Default NetworkManager: How to set caching nameserver?

Michael H. Warfield wrote:

-snip-

My solution, at this point, is "yum erase NetworkManger" and then go
back to the older scripts which WORK and work reliably.

Unless you're having problems with wireless (and there are better
solutions to that problem) NetworkManager has no advantages over the
ifup/ifdown scripts and a whole lot of disadvantages for those of us who
have custom configurations.

I've removed NetworkManger even from my laptop where I do move from
network to network and wired to wireless, because I can not tolerate its
behavior and its refusal to respect configuration options and
established scripting principles. It's just not worth the headaches it
creates, even in that environment.


Thanks for this posting. Something clicked for me when I read it and I
removed all
the NetworkManager stuff. I'll occasionally get the network not coming
up on reboot
or timing out waiting for the network, that never used to happen.
Had a problem with a second ethernet card existing as a phantom after I
removed it.
Little irritations, easily remedied and then passed by. But it used to
be so reliable, it was forgettable.

Maybe this will bring that back.

If it doesn't, easy enough to reinstall NetworkManager.

I think you meant yum remove NetworkManager , erase is for RPM.


-snip-

Mike



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Old 07-11-2008, 12:39 AM
Neal Becker
 
Default NetworkManager: How to set caching nameserver?

sean darcy wrote:

> NM sets my nameserver based on the isp, which is _very_ slow. I've set
> up a local caching nameserver which works well. But how do I tell NM to
> use 127.0.0.1??
>
> I've set up dhclient.conf with a prepend statement. If I just run
> dhclient that works, i.e. /etc/resolv.conf has the local nameserver. But
> if I just start NM, it doesn't. It looks like NM tells /sbin/dhclient
> not to use the .conf file.
>
> So now I manually edit the resolv.conf file. How can I configure NM to
> use the local nameserver?
>
> sean
>
I wrote something on this before:
http://nbecker.dyndns.org:8080/misc/local_caching_ns.pdf

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Old 07-11-2008, 01:28 AM
"Michael H. Warfield"
 
Default NetworkManager: How to set caching nameserver?

On Thu, 2008-07-10 at 14:54 -0700, stan wrote:
> Michael H. Warfield wrote:
>
> -snip-
> > My solution, at this point, is "yum erase NetworkManger" and then go
> > back to the older scripts which WORK and work reliably.
> >
> > Unless you're having problems with wireless (and there are better
> > solutions to that problem) NetworkManager has no advantages over the
> > ifup/ifdown scripts and a whole lot of disadvantages for those of us who
> > have custom configurations.
> >
> > I've removed NetworkManger even from my laptop where I do move from
> > network to network and wired to wireless, because I can not tolerate its
> > behavior and its refusal to respect configuration options and
> > established scripting principles. It's just not worth the headaches it
> > creates, even in that environment.
> >
> >
> Thanks for this posting. Something clicked for me when I read it and I
> removed all
> the NetworkManager stuff. I'll occasionally get the network not coming
> up on reboot
> or timing out waiting for the network, that never used to happen.
> Had a problem with a second ethernet card existing as a phantom after I
> removed it.
> Little irritations, easily remedied and then passed by. But it used to
> be so reliable, it was forgettable.
> Maybe this will bring that back.
>
> If it doesn't, easy enough to reinstall NetworkManager.
>
> I think you meant yum remove NetworkManager , erase is for RPM.

No... Both work... "yum erase" works. I use "erase" with yum and
"-e" with rpm. OTOH... "remove" with yum and "--erase" with rpm are
functionally equivalently in each. Matter of taste is all.

yum - erase|remove

rpm - -e|--erase

From the man pages...

Mike
--
Michael H. Warfield (AI4NB) | (770) 985-6132 | mhw@WittsEnd.com
//|=mhw=|// | (678) 463-0932 | http://www.wittsend.com/mhw/
NIC whois: MHW9 | An optimist believes we live in the best of all
PGP Key: 0xDF1DD471 | possible worlds. A pessimist is sure of it!

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Old 07-11-2008, 04:48 PM
Rick Stevens
 
Default NetworkManager: How to set caching nameserver?

Michael H. Warfield wrote:

On Thu, 2008-07-10 at 13:10 -0400, sean darcy wrote:

sean darcy wrote:
NM sets my nameserver based on the isp, which is _very_ slow. I've set
up a local caching nameserver which works well. But how do I tell NM to
use 127.0.0.1??


I've set up dhclient.conf with a prepend statement. If I just run
dhclient that works, i.e. /etc/resolv.conf has the local nameserver. But
if I just start NM, it doesn't. It looks like NM tells /sbin/dhclient
not to use the .conf file.


So now I manually edit the resolv.conf file. How can I configure NM to
use the local nameserver?


sean

And yes, I did try the DNS box in the NM edit connection box. But that
appends the local nameserver to the isp nameserver. I want the caching
nameserver to be prepended - that is, come first.


This is exactly the problem I run into with my corporate VPN (AT&T
proprietary SSL based POS). I have to set up dnsmasq to forward only
certain requests down the VPN (DNS is ssslllooowww down the VPN) and
certain requests to my local (IPv6) name servers and the rest through
normal resolution. I've been searching for a solution myself.
Unfortunately, all the solutions I've been able to find are outdated and
already subverted by the NetworkManager developers (dhclient-script
hooks no longer function with the current verion of NetworkMangler).

I have a longer rant that I'm strongly tempted to send.


I'd wouldn't necessarily post your rant here, as most of us here agree
that NM is a bad idea gone wrong. You should, rather, post your rant as
a nice big, fat bugzilla report on the NM and/or Gnome bugzillas.

It'd also be nice if there was a decent how-to on the various aspects of
the configuraton of wpa_supplicant (what the various "key_mgmt",
"pairwise" and other parameters mean and how to find out what to use,
etc.) so normal non-geeks can sort it out. As far as I can see, people
submit to NM nastiness because they can't sort those out themselves.

[snip]
----------------------------------------------------------------------
- Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer rps2@nerd.com -
- Hosting Consulting, Inc. -
- -
- Do you know how to save five drowning lawyers? No? GOOD! -
----------------------------------------------------------------------

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Old 07-11-2008, 07:34 PM
Matthew Saltzman
 
Default NetworkManager: How to set caching nameserver?

On Fri, 2008-07-11 at 09:48 -0700, Rick Stevens wrote:
> Michael H. Warfield wrote:
> >
> > I have a longer rant that I'm strongly tempted to send.
>
> I'd wouldn't necessarily post your rant here, as most of us here agree
> that NM is a bad idea gone wrong.

Speak for yourself (unless you have hard data to back up your
assertion).

> You should, rather, post your rant as
> a nice big, fat bugzilla report on the NM and/or Gnome bugzillas.

Better would be a handful of focused, reproducible error reports, so
that the problems can be fixed and the tool improved. Rants aren't
really helpful as Bugzilla reports. They are, however, great ways to
generate traffic on mailing lists.

>
> It'd also be nice if there was a decent how-to on the various aspects of
> the configuraton of wpa_supplicant (what the various "key_mgmt",
> "pairwise" and other parameters mean and how to find out what to use,
> etc.) so normal non-geeks can sort it out. As far as I can see, people
> submit to NM nastiness because they can't sort those out themselves.

I agree with the need for more and better documentation for
wpa_supplicant and for NM. But I mostly "submit" to NM because it
mostly works for me.

--
Matthew Saltzman

Clemson University Math Sciences
mjs AT clemson DOT edu
http://www.math.clemson.edu/~mjs

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Old 07-11-2008, 09:32 PM
Rick Stevens
 
Default NetworkManager: How to set caching nameserver?

Matthew Saltzman wrote:

On Fri, 2008-07-11 at 09:48 -0700, Rick Stevens wrote:

Michael H. Warfield wrote:

I have a longer rant that I'm strongly tempted to send.

I'd wouldn't necessarily post your rant here, as most of us here agree
that NM is a bad idea gone wrong.


Speak for yourself (unless you have hard data to back up your
assertion).


Ok, maybe most don't think NM is evil. I do, because unless you have a
fairly pedestrian environment (no VPNs, no custom clients, you can talk
to external DNS servers and not rely on an internal one, etc.) it will
drive you absolutely batty.


You should, rather, post your rant as
a nice big, fat bugzilla report on the NM and/or Gnome bugzillas.


Better would be a handful of focused, reproducible error reports, so
that the problems can be fixed and the tool improved. Rants aren't
really helpful as Bugzilla reports. They are, however, great ways to
generate traffic on mailing lists.


I agree, but the "focused reports" often lose context of themselves.
Sometimes you need the surrounding data to pick up what the problem
truly is.


It'd also be nice if there was a decent how-to on the various aspects of
the configuraton of wpa_supplicant (what the various "key_mgmt",
"pairwise" and other parameters mean and how to find out what to use,
etc.) so normal non-geeks can sort it out. As far as I can see, people
submit to NM nastiness because they can't sort those out themselves.


I agree with the need for more and better documentation for
wpa_supplicant and for NM. But I mostly "submit" to NM because it
mostly works for me.


I know the theory is that it "just works", but it doesn't in MANY
environments. It doesn't play nice with dhclient, ignores other network
config data and, in fact, conflicts with most existing config data. It
doesn't appear that one can control just what it does, and if you can
there are no documents to indicate how to.

I didn't want to start a rant or a flame war here. I guess I let my
emotions get away with me. Ok, that's enough. I will let this thread
drop now.

----------------------------------------------------------------------
- Rick Stevens, Systems Engineer rps2@nerd.com -
- Hosting Consulting, Inc. -
- -
- "Microsoft is a cross between The Borg and the Ferengi. -
- Unfortunately they use Borg to do their marketing and Ferengi to -
- do their programming." -- Simon Slavin -
----------------------------------------------------------------------

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Old 07-12-2008, 07:56 PM
"Michael H. Warfield"
 
Default NetworkManager: How to set caching nameserver?

Hello,

On Fri, 2008-07-11 at 15:34 -0400, Matthew Saltzman wrote:
> On Fri, 2008-07-11 at 09:48 -0700, Rick Stevens wrote:
> > Michael H. Warfield wrote:
> > >
> > > I have a longer rant that I'm strongly tempted to send.
> >
> > I'd wouldn't necessarily post your rant here, as most of us here agree
> > that NM is a bad idea gone wrong.

> Speak for yourself (unless you have hard data to back up your
> assertion).

Which assertion? That NM is a bad idea gone wrong or that most of us
agree on it? I think I have some hard data on the former but not the
later.

> > You should, rather, post your rant as
> > a nice big, fat bugzilla report on the NM and/or Gnome bugzillas.

> Better would be a handful of focused, reproducible error reports, so
> that the problems can be fixed and the tool improved. Rants aren't
> really helpful as Bugzilla reports. They are, however, great ways to
> generate traffic on mailing lists.

> >
> > It'd also be nice if there was a decent how-to on the various aspects of
> > the configuraton of wpa_supplicant (what the various "key_mgmt",
> > "pairwise" and other parameters mean and how to find out what to use,
> > etc.) so normal non-geeks can sort it out. As far as I can see, people
> > submit to NM nastiness because they can't sort those out themselves.

> I agree with the need for more and better documentation for
> wpa_supplicant and for NM. But I mostly "submit" to NM because it
> mostly works for me.

There in lies the real problem. I agree with you 100%. NM "mostly
works" for me as well. I just got back from a conference in Vancouver
where it managed the WiFi connectivity issues beautifully. The problem
isn't when it works. The problem is when it doesn't. And it doesn't
all to often. It's not most of the time, just a minority of the time,
but way too often when you have to deal with a diverse changing set of
environments (which is what I THOUGHT it was suppose to be designed for)
as I do.

When and where it doesn't work, "the gods that be" can not help you
solve it. It's a closed box which doesn't allow for tinkering and
tuning and scripting to fix things. Yeah, it "mostly works", but the
times it doesn't are an unfixable abomination and a plague upon
civilization. When it doesn't, the only solution is to drive a stake
through its heart.

"Mostly works" doesn't work, when you close your system and don't allow
people to tune it and you refuse to acknowledge the parameters, and
hooks, and scripts which the users have specified (and that does NOT
mean forcing the user only through your myopic gui dialogs) and used
successfully in the past.

> --
> Matthew Saltzman
>
> Clemson University Math Sciences
> mjs AT clemson DOT edu
> http://www.math.clemson.edu/~mjs

Mike
--
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//|=mhw=|// | (678) 463-0932 | http://www.wittsend.com/mhw/
NIC whois: MHW9 | An optimist believes we live in the best of all
PGP Key: 0xDF1DD471 | possible worlds. A pessimist is sure of it!

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