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Old 07-12-2008, 09:00 PM
Matthew Saltzman
 
Default NetworkManager: How to set caching nameserver?

On Sat, 2008-07-12 at 15:56 -0400, Michael H. Warfield wrote:
> Hello,
>
> On Fri, 2008-07-11 at 15:34 -0400, Matthew Saltzman wrote:
> > On Fri, 2008-07-11 at 09:48 -0700, Rick Stevens wrote:
> > > Michael H. Warfield wrote:
> > > >
> > > > I have a longer rant that I'm strongly tempted to send.
> > >
> > > I'd wouldn't necessarily post your rant here, as most of us here agree
> > > that NM is a bad idea gone wrong.
>
> > Speak for yourself (unless you have hard data to back up your
> > assertion).
>
> Which assertion? That NM is a bad idea gone wrong or that most of us
> agree on it? I think I have some hard data on the former but not the
> later.

The former is strictly an opinion, and you are welcome to it. The
latter is an assertion of fact that I don't think you could back up.

>
> > > You should, rather, post your rant as
> > > a nice big, fat bugzilla report on the NM and/or Gnome bugzillas.
>
> > Better would be a handful of focused, reproducible error reports, so
> > that the problems can be fixed and the tool improved. Rants aren't
> > really helpful as Bugzilla reports. They are, however, great ways to
> > generate traffic on mailing lists.
>
> > >
> > > It'd also be nice if there was a decent how-to on the various aspects of
> > > the configuraton of wpa_supplicant (what the various "key_mgmt",
> > > "pairwise" and other parameters mean and how to find out what to use,
> > > etc.) so normal non-geeks can sort it out. As far as I can see, people
> > > submit to NM nastiness because they can't sort those out themselves.
>
> > I agree with the need for more and better documentation for
> > wpa_supplicant and for NM. But I mostly "submit" to NM because it
> > mostly works for me.
>
> There in lies the real problem. I agree with you 100%. NM "mostly
> works" for me as well. I just got back from a conference in Vancouver
> where it managed the WiFi connectivity issues beautifully. The problem
> isn't when it works. The problem is when it doesn't. And it doesn't
> all to often. It's not most of the time, just a minority of the time,
> but way too often when you have to deal with a diverse changing set of
> environments (which is what I THOUGHT it was suppose to be designed for)
> as I do.
>
> When and where it doesn't work, "the gods that be" can not help you
> solve it. It's a closed box which doesn't allow for tinkering and
> tuning and scripting to fix things. Yeah, it "mostly works", but the
> times it doesn't are an unfixable abomination and a plague upon
> civilization. When it doesn't, the only solution is to drive a stake
> through its heart.
>
> "Mostly works" doesn't work, when you close your system and don't allow
> people to tune it and you refuse to acknowledge the parameters, and
> hooks, and scripts which the users have specified (and that does NOT
> mean forcing the user only through your myopic gui dialogs) and used
> successfully in the past.

I won't presume to speak for the developers, but my belief is that what
we have is a system that is (a) pretty useful in many
circumstances--useful enough to deploy, even though it's (b) unfinished
and (c) undergoing rapid changes in order to improve it, and is (d)
poorly documented as a result of that instability.

That happens often enough in Linux and open-source development to be
pretty frustrating, but I don't ascribe malicious motives to the
developers (most of the time).

Meanwhile, I use it when it works, and I when it doesn't, I try to
troubleshoot it and file bugs or turn it off and use the individual
tools that it tries to tie together. And I try very hard to be
patient...
--
Matthew Saltzman

Clemson University Math Sciences
mjs AT clemson DOT edu
http://www.math.clemson.edu/~mjs

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Old 07-13-2008, 02:08 PM
Timothy Murphy
 
Default NetworkManager: How to set caching nameserver?

Matthew Saltzman wrote:

> Meanwhile, I use it when it works, and I when it doesn't, I try to
> troubleshoot it and file bugs or turn it off and use the individual
> tools that it tries to tie together. And I try very hard to be
> patient...

The basic problem with NM is not so much bugs
as the lack of any documentation,
or indication of what is wrong, and what might be done to put it right,
if NM does not work.

The NM developers must be perfectly well aware of this,
and must have decided that their time is better spent
introducing more features into NM
than documenting those already there.

One thing I will say for NM is that WiFi under Windows
seems to suffer from much the same fate, or worse -
if it does not work, the Windows WiFi troubleshooting wizard
is completely useless.
Maybe it is better to have no documentation
than useless documentation ...

Just to be a bit more precise, what I would like from NM
is error messages along the lines: "The AP you specify
does not accept your WEP code", or "There is no response
from the AP you specify", etc.
In the Good Old Days when memory and storage space was short
"Error no 18374" was acceptable.
Nowadays, inadequate error messages are just a sign of laziness
on the part of the developer.



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Old 07-14-2008, 01:03 AM
Tim
 
Default NetworkManager: How to set caching nameserver?

On Sun, 2008-07-13 at 15:08 +0100, Timothy Murphy wrote:
> Just to be a bit more precise, what I would like from NM
> is error messages along the lines: "The AP you specify
> does not accept your WEP code", or "There is no response
> from the AP you specify", etc.
> In the Good Old Days when memory and storage space was short
> "Error no 18374" was acceptable.
> Nowadays, inadequate error messages are just a sign of laziness
> on the part of the developer.

Seconded! That's the sort of thing that has needed, not another:

"An unknown error has occurred, because an error has occurred."

--
[tim@localhost ~]$ uname -r
2.6.25.9-76.fc9.i686

Don't send private replies to my address, the mailbox is ignored. I
read messages from the public lists.



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Old 07-14-2008, 12:59 PM
Matthew Saltzman
 
Default NetworkManager: How to set caching nameserver?

On Mon, 2008-07-14 at 10:33 +0930, Tim wrote:
> On Sun, 2008-07-13 at 15:08 +0100, Timothy Murphy wrote:
> > Just to be a bit more precise, what I would like from NM
> > is error messages along the lines: "The AP you specify
> > does not accept your WEP code", or "There is no response
> > from the AP you specify", etc.
> > In the Good Old Days when memory and storage space was short
> > "Error no 18374" was acceptable.
> > Nowadays, inadequate error messages are just a sign of laziness
> > on the part of the developer.
>
> Seconded! That's the sort of thing that has needed, not another:
>
> "An unknown error has occurred, because an error has occurred."

Somebody who knows wireless protocols better than I can correct me, but
ISTR from reading the NM mailing list that (at least for WEP), it may
not be possible to detect the reason for a failure to connect.

In the nm-applet display, one lit dot means you haven't succeeded in
connecting yet (bad key or something else) and two lit dots means you're
connected to the WAP but haven't got a DCHP address yet. But that's
about all there is in terms of information from the WAP.
--
Matthew Saltzman

Clemson University Math Sciences
mjs AT clemson DOT edu
http://www.math.clemson.edu/~mjs

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Old 07-20-2008, 04:14 PM
sean darcy
 
Default NetworkManager: How to set caching nameserver?

Neal Becker wrote:

sean darcy wrote:


NM sets my nameserver based on the isp, which is _very_ slow. I've set
up a local caching nameserver which works well. But how do I tell NM to
use 127.0.0.1??

I've set up dhclient.conf with a prepend statement. If I just run
dhclient that works, i.e. /etc/resolv.conf has the local nameserver. But
if I just start NM, it doesn't. It looks like NM tells /sbin/dhclient
not to use the .conf file.

So now I manually edit the resolv.conf file. How can I configure NM to
use the local nameserver?

sean


I wrote something on this before:
http://nbecker.dyndns.org:8080/misc/local_caching_ns.pdf


Actually, I had found that. That's where I got the idea for dhclient.conf.

But it no longer works on FC9. NM appears not to use dhclient-script,
but it's own dhclient, that pays no attention to dhclient.conf.


Are you seeing something different?

sean

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