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"Kevin J. Cummings" 06-22-2008 09:42 PM

Weird iwl3945 wireless problem
 
My laptop has an Intel 3945 wireless builtin. Under F9, I've had very
few problems with it connecting. At home, I have a Linksys wrt54g and
connect using WPA security. Work fine (95% of the time). Same at my
mother's house, where I set up a similar router. I'm using NetworkMangler.


This past weekend, I went on vacation to an inn. In the "barn" they
offered free wireless. WEP encrypted, and they gave me the passphrase.


NM found the network right off, and asked me for the passphrase. WHen
it prompted, it asked for the "WEP 128 passphrase". I typed it in.
The attempt timed out after 45 seconds, prompting for me to re-enter the
passphrase, but this time, its a "WEP 40/128 Hexadecimal" and passphrase
its trying to use is different from what I originally typed in, though I
might believe it is the passphrase encrypted for the network its trying
to connect to. Subsequent attempts to connect fail, whether I use what
it presents back to me, or I re-select WEP-128 Passphrase and re-type in
the passphrase.


Now, here's the funny part. When I retired to my room (which is
supposedly out of range of the inn's wireless, since that network no
longer appears in the network list), it connected right away to a nearby
non-secured network.


So, NM works for me with WPA and with no security, but not with WEP?
(Size of test sets: 2, 1, 1)


So, can someone tell me, please, if NM is broken (and I should file a
bug), or if I was doing something wrong, and what I should have done in
order to connect to the inn's network.


I'm including a cut/paste of my /var/log/messages for one of NM's
connection attempts. It looks to me like NM found the network, and
tried to connect, but died during DHCP lookup (ie, never got a response
from the serving router).


Jun 20 14:49:58 kjclap NetworkManager: <info> Activation (eth1) Stage 1 of 5 (Device Prepare) scheduled...
Jun 20 14:49:58 kjclap NetworkManager: <info> Activation (eth1) Stage 1 of 5 (Device Prepare) started...
Jun 20 14:49:58 kjclap NetworkManager: <info> (eth1): device state change: 6 -> 4
Jun 20 14:49:58 kjclap NetworkManager: <info> Activation (eth1) Stage 2 of 5 (Device Configure) scheduled...
Jun 20 14:49:58 kjclap NetworkManager: <info> Activation (eth1) Stage 1 of 5 (Device Prepare) complete.
Jun 20 14:49:58 kjclap NetworkManager: <info> Activation (eth1) Stage 2 of 5 (Device Configure) starting...
Jun 20 14:49:58 kjclap NetworkManager: <info> (eth1): device state change: 4 -> 5
Jun 20 14:49:58 kjclap NetworkManager: <info> Activation (eth1/wireless): connection 'Auto Lake Shore Farm' has security, and secrets exist. No new secrets needed.
Jun 20 14:49:58 kjclap NetworkManager: <info> Config: added 'ssid' value 'Lake Shore Farm'
Jun 20 14:49:58 kjclap NetworkManager: <info> Config: added 'scan_ssid' value '1'
Jun 20 14:49:58 kjclap NetworkManager: <info> Config: added 'key_mgmt' value 'NONE'
Jun 20 14:49:58 kjclap NetworkManager: <info> Config: added 'auth_alg' value 'OPEN'
Jun 20 14:49:58 kjclap NetworkManager: <info> Config: added 'wep_key0' value '<omitted>'
Jun 20 14:49:58 kjclap NetworkManager: <info> Config: added 'wep_tx_keyidx' value '0'
Jun 20 14:49:58 kjclap NetworkManager: <info> Activation (eth1) Stage 2 of 5 (Device Configure) complete.
Jun 20 14:49:58 kjclap NetworkManager: <info> (eth1): supplicant connection state change: 7 -> 0
Jun 20 14:49:58 kjclap NetworkManager: <info> Config: set interface ap_scan to 1
Jun 20 14:49:58 kjclap NetworkManager: <info> (eth1): supplicant connection state change: 0 -> 2
Jun 20 14:50:02 kjclap NetworkManager: <info> (eth1): supplicant connection state change: 2 -> 3
Jun 20 14:50:02 kjclap NetworkManager: <info> (eth1): supplicant connection state change: 3 -> 0
Jun 20 14:50:03 kjclap NetworkManager: <info> (eth1): supplicant connection state change: 0 -> 4
Jun 20 14:50:03 kjclap NetworkManager: <info> (eth1): supplicant connection state change: 4 -> 7
Jun 20 14:50:03 kjclap NetworkManager: <info> Activation (eth1/wireless) Stage 2 of 5 (Device Configure) successful. Connected to wireless network 'Lake Shore Farm'.
Jun 20 14:50:03 kjclap NetworkManager: <info> Activation (eth1) Stage 3 of 5 (IP Configure Start) scheduled.
Jun 20 14:50:03 kjclap NetworkManager: <info> Activation (eth1) Stage 3 of 5 (IP Configure Start) started...
Jun 20 14:50:03 kjclap NetworkManager: <info> (eth1): device state change: 5 -> 7
Jun 20 14:50:03 kjclap NetworkManager: <info> Activation (eth1) Beginning DHCP transaction.
Jun 20 14:50:03 kjclap NetworkManager: <info> dhclient started with pid 8502
Jun 20 14:50:03 kjclap NetworkManager: <info> Activation (eth1) Stage 3 of 5 (IP Configure Start) complete.
Jun 20 14:50:03 kjclap dhclient: Internet Systems Consortium DHCP Client 4.0.0

Jun 20 14:50:03 kjclap dhclient: Copyright 2004-2007 Internet Systems Consortium.
Jun 20 14:50:03 kjclap dhclient: All rights reserved.
Jun 20 14:50:03 kjclap dhclient: For info, please visit http://www.isc.org/sw/dhcp/
Jun 20 14:50:03 kjclap dhclient:
Jun 20 14:50:03 kjclap NetworkManager: <info> DHCP: device eth1 state changed normal exit -> preinit
Jun 20 14:50:03 kjclap dhclient: Listening on LPF/eth1/00:19:d2:5f:41:ae

Jun 20 14:50:03 kjclap dhclient: Sending on LPF/eth1/00:19:d2:5f:41:ae
Jun 20 14:50:03 kjclap dhclient: Sending on Socket/fallback
Jun 20 14:50:03 kjclap dhclient: DHCPDISCOVER on eth1 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 interval 4
Jun 20 14:50:07 kjclap dhclient: DHCPDISCOVER on eth1 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 interval 11
Jun 20 14:50:18 kjclap dhclient: DHCPDISCOVER on eth1 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 interval 14
Jun 20 14:50:32 kjclap dhclient: DHCPDISCOVER on eth1 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 interval 14
Jun 20 14:50:46 kjclap dhclient: DHCPDISCOVER on eth1 to 255.255.255.255 port 67 interval 15
Jun 20 14:50:48 kjclap NetworkManager: <info> Device 'eth1' DHCP transaction took too long (>45s), stopping it.
Jun 20 14:50:48 kjclap NetworkManager: <info> eth1: canceled DHCP transaction, dhclient pid 8502
Jun 20 14:50:48 kjclap NetworkManager: <info> Activation (eth1) Stage 4 of 5 (IP Configure Timeout) scheduled...
Jun 20 14:50:48 kjclap NetworkManager: <info> Activation (eth1) Stage 4 of 5 (IP Configure Timeout) started...
Jun 20 14:50:48 kjclap NetworkManager: <info> Activation (eth1/wireless): could not get IP configuration for connection 'Auto Lake Shore Farm'.
Jun 20 14:50:48 kjclap NetworkManager: <info> (eth1): device state change: 7 -> 6
Jun 20 14:50:48 kjclap NetworkManager: <info> Activation (eth1/wireless): asking for new secrets
Jun 20 14:50:48 kjclap NetworkManager: <info> Activation (eth1) Stage 4 of 5 (IP Configure Timeout) complete.


[I did have fun with kismet on the drive home, looking at *all* the
802.11 networks sniffable from the road. Quite a few linksys routers
still in factory setup! Wow!]


--
Kevin J. Cummings
kjchome@rcn.com
cummings@kjchome.homeip.net
cummings@kjc386.framingham.ma.us
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"Mikkel L. Ellertson" 06-22-2008 11:07 PM

Weird iwl3945 wireless problem
 
Kevin J. Cummings wrote:
My laptop has an Intel 3945 wireless builtin. Under F9, I've had very
few problems with it connecting. At home, I have a Linksys wrt54g and
connect using WPA security. Work fine (95% of the time). Same at my
mother's house, where I set up a similar router. I'm using NetworkMangler.


This past weekend, I went on vacation to an inn. In the "barn" they
offered free wireless. WEP encrypted, and they gave me the passphrase.


NM found the network right off, and asked me for the passphrase. WHen
it prompted, it asked for the "WEP 128 passphrase". I typed it in.
The attempt timed out after 45 seconds, prompting for me to re-enter the
passphrase, but this time, its a "WEP 40/128 Hexadecimal" and passphrase
its trying to use is different from what I originally typed in, though I
might believe it is the passphrase encrypted for the network its trying
to connect to. Subsequent attempts to connect fail, whether I use what
it presents back to me, or I re-select WEP-128 Passphrase and re-type in
the passphrase.


Now, here's the funny part. When I retired to my room (which is
supposedly out of range of the inn's wireless, since that network no
longer appears in the network list), it connected right away to a nearby
non-secured network.


So, NM works for me with WPA and with no security, but not with WEP?
(Size of test sets: 2, 1, 1)


So, can someone tell me, please, if NM is broken (and I should file a
bug), or if I was doing something wrong, and what I should have done in
order to connect to the inn's network.


I'm including a cut/paste of my /var/log/messages for one of NM's
connection attempts. It looks to me like NM found the network, and
tried to connect, but died during DHCP lookup (ie, never got a response
from the serving router).


One thing I have run into with NM and WEP is that you may have to
tell it that is is a restricted network and a shared key. The reason
for this is that when the router is set up that way, you have to
make an encrypted connection BEFORE you try to get a dhcp lease. If
you don't, then the router will not give you a lease.


One other thing - if I remember right, the default setup asks for
the 128 bit key as ASCII, or hex. (Start with 0x for hex.) It does
not want the pass phrase itself. There is a selection where you can
give it the pass phrase, and it will generate the hex or ASCII key.
I don't remember exactly how to access it - I am not on my laptop,
and it has not had to do it for a while.


Mikkel
--

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for thou art crunchy and taste good with Ketchup!

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"Kevin J. Cummings" 06-22-2008 11:23 PM

Weird iwl3945 wireless problem
 
Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:

One thing I have run into with NM and WEP is that you may have to tell
it that is is a restricted network and a shared key. The reason for this
is that when the router is set up that way, you have to make an
encrypted connection BEFORE you try to get a dhcp lease. If you don't,
then the router will not give you a lease.


Interesting info. I wish I knew that while I was still there and could
play around. In all of my attempts, I seem to remember trying both Open
Network (the default) and Shared Key. I wish NM was more verbose in the
*reason* it couldn't get a lease. I get really frustrated not knowing
how to tweak things and only hearing: Wrong, try again!


One other thing - if I remember right, the default setup asks for the
128 bit key as ASCII, or hex. (Start with 0x for hex.) It does not want
the pass phrase itself. There is a selection where you can give it the
pass phrase, and it will generate the hex or ASCII key. I don't remember
exactly how to access it - I am not on my laptop, and it has not had to
do it for a while.


If I delete the network and start again, it prompts for the passphrase.
After I've entered it, every subsequent attempt by NM uses the Hex
encrypted key, but it never started with 0x. I would have thought that
even though WEP is less secure than it was designed to be, that it would
be better known by software like NM and be easier to use! When the inn
tells me "no one else is having problems connecting" that Linux Wireless
(in particular the tools that support it) isn't where it needs to be yet.


There was a 3rd WEP option available to me while I was playing around, I
think it was WEP 40/128 ASCII. I wasn't able to use the passphrase or
the encrypted string here either.



Mikkel


Thanks for the response. Does anyone have a resource I can use to catch
up on this stuff? Obviously there is a lot I need to learn to be able
to use tools like NM effectively.


--
Kevin J. Cummings
kjchome@rcn.com
cummings@kjchome.homeip.net
cummings@kjc386.framingham.ma.us
Registered Linux User #1232 (http://counter.li.org)

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Matthew Saltzman 06-23-2008 02:35 AM

Weird iwl3945 wireless problem
 
On Sun, 2008-06-22 at 18:07 -0500, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
> Kevin J. Cummings wrote:
> One other thing - if I remember right, the default setup asks for
> the 128 bit key as ASCII, or hex. (Start with 0x for hex.) It does
> not want the pass phrase itself. There is a selection where you can
> give it the pass phrase, and it will generate the hex or ASCII key.
> I don't remember exactly how to access it - I am not on my laptop,
> and it has not had to do it for a while.

That's not correct for NM, though it is for system-config-network and
friends. In NM, there's a pulldown selector and you can choose (I
think--can't check right now) passphrase, ascii key or hex key. The hex
key does not start with 0x.

>
> Mikkel
--
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Clemson University Math Sciences
mjs AT clemson DOT edu
http://www.math.clemson.edu/~mjs

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Mike Chambers 06-23-2008 04:37 AM

Weird iwl3945 wireless problem
 
On Sun, 2008-06-22 at 22:35 -0400, Matthew Saltzman wrote:
> On Sun, 2008-06-22 at 18:07 -0500, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
> > Kevin J. Cummings wrote:
> > One other thing - if I remember right, the default setup asks for
> > the 128 bit key as ASCII, or hex. (Start with 0x for hex.) It does
> > not want the pass phrase itself. There is a selection where you can
> > give it the pass phrase, and it will generate the hex or ASCII key.
> > I don't remember exactly how to access it - I am not on my laptop,
> > and it has not had to do it for a while.
>
> That's not correct for NM, though it is for system-config-network and
> friends. In NM, there's a pulldown selector and you can choose (I
> think--can't check right now) passphrase, ascii key or hex key. The hex
> key does not start with 0x.

I thought when using hex key and the 0x, it was for when using like
system-config-network or the /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/key-file or
whatever? And using just passphrase is when using NM itself.

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Matthew Saltzman 06-23-2008 12:25 PM

Weird iwl3945 wireless problem
 
On Sun, 2008-06-22 at 23:37 -0500, Mike Chambers wrote:
> On Sun, 2008-06-22 at 22:35 -0400, Matthew Saltzman wrote:
> > On Sun, 2008-06-22 at 18:07 -0500, Mikkel L. Ellertson wrote:
> > > Kevin J. Cummings wrote:
> > > One other thing - if I remember right, the default setup asks for
> > > the 128 bit key as ASCII, or hex. (Start with 0x for hex.) It does
> > > not want the pass phrase itself. There is a selection where you can
> > > give it the pass phrase, and it will generate the hex or ASCII key.
> > > I don't remember exactly how to access it - I am not on my laptop,
> > > and it has not had to do it for a while.
> >
> > That's not correct for NM, though it is for system-config-network and
> > friends. In NM, there's a pulldown selector and you can choose (I
> > think--can't check right now) passphrase, ascii key or hex key. The hex
> > key does not start with 0x.
>
> I thought when using hex key and the 0x, it was for when using like
> system-config-network or the /etc/sysconfig/network-scripts/key-file or
> whatever? And using just passphrase is when using NM itself.

That's partly right. I read Mikkel's post as claiming that the '0x'
prefix was required for NM, which is not correct.

s-c-n and friends have only one way to enter a key and no way to specify
its type, so to distinguish hex from ascii, you need the starting '0x'
character. Otherwise ascii 'd3adb33f' and hex 'd3adb33f' would be
indistinguishable.

NM WEP has the pulldown menu to specify the key type. So you can choose
whether the key you enter is a passphrase or a hex key.

--
Matthew Saltzman

Clemson University Math Sciences
mjs AT clemson DOT edu
http://www.math.clemson.edu/~mjs

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"Mikkel L. Ellertson" 06-23-2008 01:21 PM

Weird iwl3945 wireless problem
 
Matthew Saltzman wrote:


That's partly right. I read Mikkel's post as claiming that the '0x'
prefix was required for NM, which is not correct.

s-c-n and friends have only one way to enter a key and no way to specify
its type, so to distinguish hex from ascii, you need the starting '0x'
character. Otherwise ascii 'd3adb33f' and hex 'd3adb33f' would be
indistinguishable.

NM WEP has the pulldown menu to specify the key type. So you can choose
whether the key you enter is a passphrase or a hex key.

Thats what I get for trying to do it from memory. That is why I
qualified it in my answer - I was not sure if I was remembering it
correctly - I wasn't, so I am glad you corrected me.


Mikkel
--

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Timothy Murphy 06-23-2008 04:31 PM

Weird iwl3945 wireless problem
 
Matthew Saltzman wrote:

> s-c-n and friends have only one way to enter a key and no way to specify
> its type, so to distinguish hex from ascii, you need the starting '0x'
> character. Otherwise ascii 'd3adb33f' and hex 'd3adb33f' would be
> indistinguishable.
>
> NM WEP has the pulldown menu to specify the key type. So you can choose
> whether the key you enter is a passphrase or a hex key.

With me, NM occasionally gets into a loop where it keeps asking me
for my encryption key.
I feel like screaming at it, "I've already told you 5 times
what the f-ing key is".
The only solution to this I have found is to re-boot.
(Even ctrl-alt-backspace, forcing a new login, does not work.)

Admittedly this only happens about 1 time in 10.

As far as I can see, NM is completely devoid of any documentation
that could conceivably help if it does not work.
The NM developers suffer from the delusion that their toy is infallible.


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Matthew Saltzman 06-23-2008 05:23 PM

Weird iwl3945 wireless problem
 
On Mon, 2008-06-23 at 17:31 +0100, Timothy Murphy wrote:
> Matthew Saltzman wrote:
>
> > s-c-n and friends have only one way to enter a key and no way to specify
> > its type, so to distinguish hex from ascii, you need the starting '0x'
> > character. Otherwise ascii 'd3adb33f' and hex 'd3adb33f' would be
> > indistinguishable.
> >
> > NM WEP has the pulldown menu to specify the key type. So you can choose
> > whether the key you enter is a passphrase or a hex key.
>
> With me, NM occasionally gets into a loop where it keeps asking me
> for my encryption key.
> I feel like screaming at it, "I've already told you 5 times
> what the f-ing key is".
> The only solution to this I have found is to re-boot.
> (Even ctrl-alt-backspace, forcing a new login, does not work.)

When this happens (haven't seen it recently in F8 fully up2date), I
begin by restarting the NetworkManager service. That's almost always
enough, but if not, I stop the service, rmmod the wireless driver,
modprobe the driver, then restart the service. I've not had to resort
to rebooting in quite a while.

(Note that NM is a system service that runs at boot. The applet runs at
login, but connects with the system service. Logging out has no effect
on the service.)

>
> Admittedly this only happens about 1 time in 10.
>
> As far as I can see, NM is completely devoid of any documentation
> that could conceivably help if it does not work.
> The NM developers suffer from the delusion that their toy is infallible.

That's way more plausible than the theory that they are spending their
time coding rather than documenting. The latter just never happens with
open-source projects...

--
Matthew Saltzman

Clemson University Math Sciences
mjs AT clemson DOT edu
http://www.math.clemson.edu/~mjs

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"Kevin J. Cummings" 06-23-2008 06:21 PM

Weird iwl3945 wireless problem
 
Matthew Saltzman wrote:

On Mon, 2008-06-23 at 17:31 +0100, Timothy Murphy wrote:

With me, NM occasionally gets into a loop where it keeps asking me
for my encryption key.
I feel like screaming at it, "I've already told you 5 times
what the f-ing key is".
The only solution to this I have found is to re-boot.
(Even ctrl-alt-backspace, forcing a new login, does not work.)


When this happens (haven't seen it recently in F8 fully up2date), I
begin by restarting the NetworkManager service. That's almost always
enough, but if not, I stop the service, rmmod the wireless driver,
modprobe the driver, then restart the service. I've not had to resort
to rebooting in quite a while.


I too have seen this "feature" in action. Nothing seems to fix it for
me. I've tried rebooting, I've tried powering down and back up again
too, and no difference. If NM doesn't want to connect, it won't connect.



(Note that NM is a system service that runs at boot. The applet runs at
login, but connects with the system service. Logging out has no effect
on the service.)


Yes, I understand this. Neither should restarting X have any effect
(for the same reasons).



Admittedly this only happens about 1 time in 10.


When I see it, NM and the "iwlist scan" command tend to agree with what
they "see" as far as available networks, so I suspect that the problem
here is really in the underlying driver software, and not NM.



As far as I can see, NM is completely devoid of any documentation
that could conceivably help if it does not work.
The NM developers suffer from the delusion that their toy is infallible.


That's way more plausible than the theory that they are spending their
time coding rather than documenting. The latter just never happens with
open-source projects...


B^)

--
Kevin J. Cummings
kjchome@rcn.com
cummings@kjchome.homeip.net
cummings@kjc386.framingham.ma.us
Registered Linux User #1232 (http://counter.li.org)

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