The program 'ToolKid' looks like a educational tool for teaching
programming concepts based on Logo.
It may be possible to replicate some of the functionality to the Logo
tools currently available and I can only see the following paths in
order of least work and greatest benefit:
1) Get in touch with the makers of ToolKid and persuade them to make it
Open Source software. They don't have to make their content free and you
could even pay them to license the code as GPL for instance.
2) Convince the makers of ToolKid to make a proprietary port to Ubuntu
and tie it's working on Ubuntu to the contract.
3) Find and/or develop the existing available Logo teaching tools
available in the repository and convince the MCGO to use that instead.
See eToys and KTurtle in the repositories.
4) Develop fixes for wine that enable the windows version of toolkid to
run under ubuntu.
5) Install windows xp on all your machines and use that instead of
ubuntu.
Looks like you've got your work cut out, good luck and let us know how
it goes and what route you take.
Best Regards, Martin Owens
On Tue, 2009-02-10 at 09:28 +0100, Spase Ivanovski wrote:
> ToolKid
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02-24-2009, 04:24 PM
Mackenzie Morgan
Question
On Tuesday 24 February 2009 7:22:44 am Martin Owens wrote:
> For extra information about this:
>
> http://www.mcgo.org.mk/toolkid.htm
>
> http://eurologo2005.oeiizk.waw.pl/PDF/E2005IvanovIlieva.pdf
>
> The program 'ToolKid' looks like a educational tool for teaching
> programming concepts based on Logo.
KTurtle?
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02-24-2009, 06:26 PM
Allen Zhu
Question
On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 4:22 AM, Martin Owens <doctormo@gmail.com> wrote:
> The program 'ToolKid' looks like a educational tool for teaching
> programming concepts based on Logo.
> It may be possible to replicate some of the functionality to the Logo
> tools currently available and I can only see the following paths in
> order of least work and greatest benefit:
> 1) Get in touch with the makers of ToolKid and persuade them to make it
> Open Source software. They don't have to make their content free and you
> could even pay them to license the code as GPL for instance.
> 2) Convince the makers of ToolKid to make a proprietary port to Ubuntu
> and tie it's working on Ubuntu to the contract.
> 3) Find and/or develop the existing available Logo teaching tools
> available in the repository and convince the MCGO to use that instead.
> See eToys and KTurtle in the repositories.
> 4) Develop fixes for wine that enable the windows version of toolkid to
> run under ubuntu.
> 5) Install windows xp on all your machines and use that instead of
> ubuntu.
5) is not an option because as stated at the root of the thread, the
machines are not theirs to install Windows on. These are the systems that
are part of the Ubuntu school deployment in Macedonia.
I think 4) should be given greater emphasis here. With Wine claiming "1.0"
status, it should be entirely possible to get this software working under
Wine, possibly with bugfixes to Wine that benefit users trying to get other
Windows applications working under Ubuntu. But the toolkid url above
doesn't appear to include a download link, and no specifics have been given
in this thread about how ToolKid fails under Wine; without that, there's not
much opportunity for forward progress.
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02-24-2009, 09:19 PM
Martin Owens
Question
Hi Steve,
> 5) is not an option because as stated at the root of the thread, the
> machines are not theirs to install Windows on. These are the systems that
> are part of the Ubuntu school deployment in Macedonia.
Interesting how the school system can enforce two systems that don't
work with each other. Oh well, left hand, right hand doing things etc.
> I think 4) should be given greater emphasis here. With Wine claiming "1.0"
> status, it should be entirely possible to get this software working.
And what progress is that then? I don't mean to be blunt, but wine is a
toxic workaround (a hack) for when you absolutely must have windows
programs working and your fairly confident that you have no other
choices. If this school system has ordered enough licenses and has
enough leverage with what appears to be a small enough company, the
options before wine offer much more stability and future proofing. I
disagree therefore in your re-weighting.
I know we like hunting for technical solutions here, but it makes us
look silly when nothing (seemingly) works with ubuntu unless it's using
windows compatibility layers.
Aside: Worryingly I tried eToys today in ubuntu 8.10, didn't work. Our
package is broken, the error appears to be with the --xrend option not
being recognised in the vm and then when you get it loaded it has all
sorts of errors. I ended up installed the deb from their website to get
it running.
Regards, Martin
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02-24-2009, 09:45 PM
Allen Zhu
Question
On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 11:53 AM, Steve Langasek <steve.langasek@ubuntu.com> wrote:
On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 07:22:44AM -0500, Martin Owens wrote:
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However, how will he find people to modify wine?
I mean, he has to find someone whose experienced and good at source.
Seems as if Mackenzie's suggestion, KTurtle might work?
Allen
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02-25-2009, 06:45 AM
"Spase Ivanovski"
Question
Hi to everyone and thanks for your efforts,
Steve this is the link that you can get Toolkid
http://it-sliven.dir.bg/_wm/pbasic/?df=274418&GDirId=c6847ce7204b03095c39353
5c7c86a8d/
Because it is in bulgarian just go to:
"Aﾐｺﾐｾ ﾐｶﾐｵﾐｻﾐｰﾐｵﾑひｵ ﾐｴﾐｰ ﾑﾐｲﾐｰﾐｻﾐｸﾑひｵ ﾐｿﾑ諌ｻﾐｽﾐｰﾑひｰ ﾐｲﾐｵﾑﾑﾐｸﾑ ﾐｽﾐｰ Comenius Logo ﾐｸ ToolKID, ﾐｽﾐｰﾑひｸﾑﾐｽﾐｵﾑひｵ
(click here) ﾑびσｺ!"
The paths written by Martin the #4 is the only one that I can think right
now, others are either not allowed or not applicable. But Allen mention some
virtualization that I did not tried.
What should I look for to try this process?
Any suggestions for the virtualization or if someone else knows about it
more to guide me.
Thanks again
> The program 'ToolKid' looks like a educational tool for teaching
> programming concepts based on Logo.
> It may be possible to replicate some of the functionality to the Logo
> tools currently available and I can only see the following paths in
> order of least work and greatest benefit:
> 1) Get in touch with the makers of ToolKid and persuade them to make it
> Open Source software. They don't have to make their content free and you
> could even pay them to license the code as GPL for instance.
> 2) Convince the makers of ToolKid to make a proprietary port to Ubuntu
> and tie it's working on Ubuntu to the contract.
> 3) Find and/or develop the existing available Logo teaching tools
> available in the repository and convince the MCGO to use that instead.
> See eToys and KTurtle in the repositories.
> 4) Develop fixes for wine that enable the windows version of toolkid to
> run under ubuntu.
> 5) Install windows xp on all your machines and use that instead of
> ubuntu.
5) is not an option because as stated at the root of the thread, the
machines are not theirs to install Windows on. These are the systems that
are part of the Ubuntu school deployment in Macedonia.
I think 4) should be given greater emphasis here. With Wine claiming "1.0"
status, it should be entirely possible to get this software working under
Wine, possibly with bugfixes to Wine that benefit users trying to get other
Windows applications working under Ubuntu. But the toolkid url above
doesn't appear to include a download link, and no specifics have been given
in this thread about how ToolKid fails under Wine; without that, there's not
much opportunity for forward progress.
--
Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS
Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developer http://www.debian.org/
slangasek@ubuntu.com vorlon@debian.org
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02-25-2009, 05:38 PM
Colin Watson
Question
On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 02:45:05PM -0800, Allen Zhu wrote:
> However, how will he find people to modify wine?
Well, my guess would be to start with the Wine developers!
http://wiki.winehq.org/FAQ links (section 8.4) to
http://wiki.winehq.org/HelpingWine. http://www.winehq.org/help/ also
indicates that paid support is available.
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02-25-2009, 06:04 PM
Steve Langasek
Question
On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 08:45:12AM +0100, Spase Ivanovski wrote:
> Hi to everyone and thanks for your efforts,
> Steve this is the link that you can get Toolkid
> http://it-sliven.dir.bg/_wm/pbasic/?df=274418&GDirId=c6847ce7204b03095c39353
> 5c7c86a8d/
> Because it is in bulgarian just go to:
> "Aﾐｺﾐｾ ﾐｶﾐｵﾐｻﾐｰﾐｵﾑひｵ ﾐｴﾐｰ ﾑﾐｲﾐｰﾐｻﾐｸﾑひｵ ﾐｿﾑ諌ｻﾐｽﾐｰﾑひｰ ﾐｲﾐｵﾑﾑﾐｸﾑ ﾐｽﾐｰ Comenius Logo ﾐｸ ToolKID, ﾐｽﾐｰﾑひｸﾑﾐｽﾐｵﾑひｵ
> (click here) ﾑびσｺ!"
> The paths written by Martin the #4 is the only one that I can think right
> now, others are either not allowed or not applicable. But Allen mention some
> virtualization that I did not tried.
Well, I've downloaded this application and it installs and runs just fine
for me under Wine in jaunty. The only problem I see is that the encoding is
wrong on all of the menus - it looks like KOI8-R -> ISO8859-1 mojibake.
Hard to say if that's a wine bug or a buggy application assumption without
more digging, but either way it seems like it should be very fixable - much
less of a problem than unimplemented Windows function calls!
There are also two problems with the menu entries added to the GNOME menu
for this program. First, the 'ToolKID' link has a path escaping problem,
and all the backslashes in the path to the kidspac.lgp demo file are
missing, causing a launch failure. (It launches fine from the commandline.)
Second, the 'update' link (ﾐ籍ｺﾑびσｰﾐｻﾐｸﾐｷﾐｰﾑﾐｸﾑ) doesn't show up, presumably because
of an encoding issue somewhere.
Are there other problems that you ran into when running this program under
Wine?
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Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world.
Ubuntu Developer http://www.debian.org/
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Question
