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Old 06-01-2010, 03:28 PM
Chen Lei
 
Default Inaccurate information about LiVES package

2010/6/1 salsaman <salsaman@gmail.com>:
> Please answer the question. I have been personally assured by
> representatives of the mplayer developers that the ffmpeg code contains *no
> patented code*. I spent over two years fighting to convince the debian
> developers that this was true, until they finally accepted it.
>
> I am very tired of this discussion, and I am not prepared to go through it
> all again with the fedora legal dept.
>
> packaging mailing list
> packaging@lists.fedoraproject.org
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/packaging
>

I suggest you to talk with spot who is the expert in fedora legal. He
can determine whether fedora can include ffmpeg or not.

mail: tcallawa AT redhat.com




Regards,
Chen Lei
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Old 06-01-2010, 03:30 PM
Jarod Wilson
 
Default Inaccurate information about LiVES package

On Tue, Jun 01, 2010 at 12:11:19PM -0300, salsaman wrote:
> Please answer the question. I have been personally assured by
> representatives of the mplayer developers that the ffmpeg code contains *no
> patented code*.

Are these mplayer developers legal experts in patent law?

> I spent over two years fighting to convince the debian
> developers that this was true, until they finally accepted it.

Again, Debian doesn't have the same level of exposure as a distribution
with a corporate backer in the US -- i.e. Red Hat. Red Hat legal has
already made a call on this. They would have to clear any change in stance
with respect to ffmpeg and the like.

> I am very tired of this discussion, and I am not prepared to go through it
> all again with the fedora legal dept.
>
> Please just point me to just one registered patent that the core of ffmpeg
> is known to violate.
> Otherwise you are just spreading FUD.

If you're not willing to talk to someone with legal expertise about a
legal matter, then you're not going to get anywhere here. Sorry.




> On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 11:56 AM, Daniel P. Berrange <berrange@redhat.com>wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Jun 01, 2010 at 11:41:21AM -0300, salsaman wrote:
> > > Please can you give an example of a patent which is violated in the
> > *core*
> > > of ffmpeg.
> >
> > This is the wrong place to raise legal questions wrt Fedora packaging, or
> > potential new packages for Fedora. They should be directed to Fedora Legal
> > team
> >
> > http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal
> >
> > "If you have any legal questions that can be discussed in public,
> > post to fedora-legal-list . If you have any private legal questions
> > send a mail to legal AT fedoraproject.org"
> >
> > Regards,
> > Daniel


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Old 06-01-2010, 04:26 PM
salsaman
 
Default Inaccurate information about LiVES package

On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 12:30 PM, Jarod Wilson <jarod@redhat.com> wrote:


On Tue, Jun 01, 2010 at 12:11:19PM -0300, salsaman wrote:

> Please answer the question. I have been personally assured by

> representatives of the mplayer developers that the ffmpeg code contains *no

> patented code*.



Are these mplayer developers legal experts in patent law?



No, but I am assuming they know which codecs are included in a minimal build of the libraries, and which codecs are known to be covered by patents/licensing agreements.



*
> I spent over two years fighting to convince the debian

> developers that this was true, until they finally accepted it.



Again, Debian doesn't have the same level of exposure as a distribution

with a corporate backer in the US -- i.e. Red Hat. Red Hat legal has

already made a call on this. They would have to clear any change in stance

with respect to ffmpeg and the like.



Debian has an extremely capable legal team who have many years of experience dealing with these matters. If something is cleared for inclusion in debian, you can pretty much assume it is legally OK.



*
> I am very tired of this discussion, and I am not prepared to go through it

> all again with the fedora legal dept.

>

> Please just point me to just one registered patent that the core of ffmpeg

> is known to violate.

> Otherwise you are just spreading FUD.



If you're not willing to talk to someone with legal expertise about a

legal matter, then you're not going to get anywhere here. Sorry.





I am perfectly willing to talk to anyone with legal expertise in these matters. I am just making the point that until you have seen an actual patent which ffmpeg supposedly violates, making statements like "ffmpeg violates patents !" is FUD.



(For the record, for example, I would not advise any distros to include Mono, since I have seen actual US patents which it supposedly violates.)



In the meantime, perhaps you could include LiVES in fedora, since as I have pointed out, ffmpeg/mplayer/mencoder are *not* required for either building or running the application. LiVES will check at runtime if any of these are available so users who wish to use "restricted" codecs can either build mplayer from source or pull it from another distro.





Regards,
Salsaman.




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Old 06-01-2010, 04:30 PM
Harry Rickards
 
Default Inaccurate information about LiVES package

2010/6/1 salsaman <salsaman@gmail.com>:
<snip>
>
> In the meantime, perhaps you could include LiVES in fedora, since as I have
> pointed out, ffmpeg/mplayer/mencoder are *not* required for either building
> or running the application. LiVES will check at runtime if any of these are
> available so users who wish to use "restricted" codecs can either build
> mplayer from source or pull it from another distro.
>

Just like to say to everyone that I'm currently packaging LiVES, and
although I've hit a couple of problems hope to have a review request
on bugzilla within the next couple of days.

--
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Vote Lib Dem - Building a fairer Britain - http://libdems.org.uk
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Old 06-01-2010, 04:33 PM
Jeff Spaleta
 
Default Inaccurate information about LiVES package

2010/6/1 salsaman <salsaman@gmail.com>:
> In the meantime, perhaps you could include LiVES in fedora, since as I have
> pointed out, ffmpeg/mplayer/mencoder are *not* required for either building
> or running the application. LiVES will check at runtime if any of these are
> available so users who wish to use "restricted" codecs can either build
> mplayer from source or pull it from another distro.

I'm still not clear on the capabilities that do not eventually require
ffmpeg or mplayer. Theora/ogg encoding requires mplayer in LIVES or
did I misread the previous post?

-jef
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Old 06-01-2010, 04:34 PM
Jeff Spaleta
 
Default Inaccurate information about LiVES package

On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 8:30 AM, Harry Rickards <harry@linux.com> wrote:
> Just like to say to everyone that I'm currently packaging LiVES, and
> although I've hit a couple of problems hope to have a review request
> on bugzilla within the next couple of days.


How functional is it without mplayer? And does the runtime detection
work such that if you install mplayer from rpmfusion full
functionality is recovered?

-jef
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Old 06-01-2010, 04:36 PM
salsaman
 
Default Inaccurate information about LiVES package

Theora/ogg encoding uses encoder_example from libtheora. Some packages rename this to theora_encoder_example (which will also work with LiVES) and include it in libtheora-bin package.

Salsaman.



http://lives.sourceforge.net
https://www.ohloh.net/accounts/salsaman




On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 1:33 PM, Jeff Spaleta <jspaleta@gmail.com> wrote:


2010/6/1 salsaman <salsaman@gmail.com>:

> In the meantime, perhaps you could include LiVES in fedora, since as I have

> pointed out, ffmpeg/mplayer/mencoder are *not* required for either building

> or running the application. LiVES will check at runtime if any of these are

> available so users who wish to use "restricted" codecs can either build

> mplayer from source or pull it from another distro.



I'm still not clear on the capabilities that do not eventually require

ffmpeg or mplayer. Theora/ogg encoding requires mplayer in LIVES or

did I misread the previous post?



-jef

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Old 06-01-2010, 04:43 PM
salsaman
 
Default Inaccurate information about LiVES package

On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 1:34 PM, Jeff Spaleta <jspaleta@gmail.com> wrote:


On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 8:30 AM, Harry Rickards <harry@linux.com> wrote:

> Just like to say to everyone that I'm currently packaging LiVES, and

> although I've hit a couple of problems hope to have a review request

> on bugzilla within the next couple of days.





How functional is it without mplayer? *And does the runtime detection

work such that if you install mplayer from rpmfusion full

functionality is recovered?



Without mplayer, you would be limited to the following formats (assuming you had all the other required libs installed):

decoding:

dv (audio and video)
ogg/theora (no audio)


animted gif

multiple images (i.e animation sequences)
generators (e.g. title generators)

external window and desktop capturing

clip imports from other copies of LiVES


encoding:
dv (via libdv)


ogg/theora (via encoder_example)
animated gif
flash/swf (using multiple jpeg)
pdf

mjpeg/pcm (possibly) via transcode



If a user installs mplayer/mencoder after installing LiVES, then they will inherit whatever functionality is in mplayer/mencoder.





Regards,
Salsaman.


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Old 06-01-2010, 04:43 PM
Jeff Spaleta
 
Default Inaccurate information about LiVES package

2010/6/1 salsaman <salsaman@gmail.com>:
> Theora/ogg encoding uses encoder_example from libtheora. Some packages
> rename this to theora_encoder_example (which will also work with LiVES) and
> include it in libtheora-bin package.


Thanks for the clarification. We may need to rework the libtheora
package to better support LIVES before it is introduced. The libtheora
we ship does not including any binary executables.. just the
libraries.

If you could find a way to support a theora/ogg gstreamer pipeline via
use of gst-launch for our users to use until mplayer is installed that
would be another option instead of the encoder_example.


-jef
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Old 06-01-2010, 04:45 PM
Ralf Corsepius
 
Default Inaccurate information about LiVES package

On 06/01/2010 06:26 PM, salsaman wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 1, 2010 at 12:30 PM, Jarod Wilson<jarod@redhat.com> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Jun 01, 2010 at 12:11:19PM -0300, salsaman wrote:

> In the meantime, perhaps you could include LiVES in fedora, since as I have
> pointed out, ffmpeg/mplayer/mencoder are *not* required for either building
> or running the application.
Which functional regressions will a missing dependency cause?

> LiVES will check at runtime if any of these are
> available so users who wish to use "restricted" codecs can either build
> mplayer from source or pull it from another distro.
It has a dependency on mpegtools (N/A in Fedora).

Ralf
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