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Old 02-03-2010, 05:40 PM
Hans de Goede
 
Default Python Guidelines Vote

Hi all,

On 02/03/2010 08:41 PM, Toshio Kuratomi wrote:
> From the summary for today's meeting:
> """
> The committee started voting on new Guidelines for python modules that
> includes Guidelines for python3 but suffered network difficulties in the
> middle of the discussion. This will ocntinue on the packaging mailing list
> and hopefully be voted on later this week.
>
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackagingDrafts/Python3
>
> Current state:
>
> For: 3 rdieter, tibbs, abadger1999
>
> Against: 1 racor racor wants to have a note in the guidelines of when the
> python-2.x package will be removed from Fedora. Other committee members
> argued that this was 1) out of scope for the FPC (would be a packagr or
> FESCo decision) and 2) impossible to know at this juncture as the uptake of
> python3 among module authors is not yet very high -- that leads to no one
> being able to port because their dependencies have not been
> ported.
> """
> Logs of this portion are at:
> http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2010-02-03/fedora-meeting.2010-02-03-16.04.log.html#l-175
>
> I'd like to have the vote continued, here on the mailing list to see if we
> can either get the 5 +1's we need or dig up issues that must be addressed.
> There is a Fedora 13 Feature that depends on this:
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Python3F13
>
> We should at least have some idea of whether there's large remaining
> problems to be worked out in the Guidelines for Feature Freeze (Tues next week).
>
> hansg was a +1 provided no big problems were brought up but couldn't be
> present for the discussion. Hans, are you still +1 after racor's objection?
>

Yes I'm still +1

Regards,

Hans
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Old 02-03-2010, 06:41 PM
Toshio Kuratomi
 
Default Python Guidelines Vote

From the summary for today's meeting:
"""
The committee started voting on new Guidelines for python modules that
includes Guidelines for python3 but suffered network difficulties in the
middle of the discussion. This will ocntinue on the packaging mailing list
and hopefully be voted on later this week.

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackagingDrafts/Python3

Current state:

For: 3 rdieter, tibbs, abadger1999

Against: 1 racor racor wants to have a note in the guidelines of when the
python-2.x package will be removed from Fedora. Other committee members
argued that this was 1) out of scope for the FPC (would be a packagr or
FESCo decision) and 2) impossible to know at this juncture as the uptake of
python3 among module authors is not yet very high -- that leads to no one
being able to port because their dependencies have not been
ported.
"""
Logs of this portion are at:
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2010-02-03/fedora-meeting.2010-02-03-16.04.log.html#l-175

I'd like to have the vote continued, here on the mailing list to see if we
can either get the 5 +1's we need or dig up issues that must be addressed.
There is a Fedora 13 Feature that depends on this:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Python3F13

We should at least have some idea of whether there's large remaining
problems to be worked out in the Guidelines for Feature Freeze (Tues next week).

hansg was a +1 provided no big problems were brought up but couldn't be
present for the discussion. Hans, are you still +1 after racor's objection?

limburgher, sorry we couldn't resolve you being able to speak in channel
until after the meeting. Care to cast your vote?

rathann, SmootherFrOgZ, spot, your votes would also be appreciated.

-Toshio
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Old 02-03-2010, 07:32 PM
Jon Ciesla
 
Default Python Guidelines Vote

Toshio Kuratomi wrote:
> From the summary for today's meeting:
> """
> The committee started voting on new Guidelines for python modules that
> includes Guidelines for python3 but suffered network difficulties in the
> middle of the discussion. This will ocntinue on the packaging mailing list
> and hopefully be voted on later this week.
>
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackagingDrafts/Python3
>
> Current state:
>
> For: 3 rdieter, tibbs, abadger1999
>
> Against: 1 racor racor wants to have a note in the guidelines of when the
> python-2.x package will be removed from Fedora. Other committee members
> argued that this was 1) out of scope for the FPC (would be a packagr or
> FESCo decision) and 2) impossible to know at this juncture as the uptake of
> python3 among module authors is not yet very high -- that leads to no one
> being able to port because their dependencies have not been
> ported.
> """
> Logs of this portion are at:
> http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/fedora-meeting/2010-02-03/fedora-meeting.2010-02-03-16.04.log.html#l-175
>
> I'd like to have the vote continued, here on the mailing list to see if we
> can either get the 5 +1's we need or dig up issues that must be addressed.
> There is a Fedora 13 Feature that depends on this:
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Features/Python3F13
>
> We should at least have some idea of whether there's large remaining
> problems to be worked out in the Guidelines for Feature Freeze (Tues next week).
>
> hansg was a +1 provided no big problems were brought up but couldn't be
> present for the discussion. Hans, are you still +1 after racor's objection?
>
> limburgher, sorry we couldn't resolve you being able to speak in channel
> until after the meeting. Care to cast your vote?
>
> rathann, SmootherFrOgZ, spot, your votes would also be appreciated.
>
> -Toshio
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> --
> packaging mailing list
> packaging@lists.fedoraproject.org
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/packaging
+1 from me. I got my IRC snag sorted out about 15 minutes after the
meeting ended. I would very much liked to have participated in the
discussion, but was heartened to watch my arguments in support of my
vote being made for me.

-J

--
in your fear, seek only peace
in your fear, seek only love

-d. bowie

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Old 02-04-2010, 03:32 AM
Ralf Corsepius
 
Default Python Guidelines Vote

On 02/03/2010 08:41 PM, Toshio Kuratomi wrote:
> From the summary for today's meeting:
> """
> The committee started voting on new Guidelines for python modules that
> includes Guidelines for python3 but suffered network difficulties in the
> middle of the discussion. This will ocntinue on the packaging mailing list
> and hopefully be voted on later this week.
>
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackagingDrafts/Python3
>
> Current state:
>
> For: 3 rdieter, tibbs, abadger1999
>
> Against: 1 racor racor wants to have a note in the guidelines of when the
> python-2.x package will be removed from Fedora. Other committee members
> argued that this was 1) out of scope for the FPC (would be a packagr or
> FESCo decision) and 2) impossible to know at this juncture as the uptake of
> python3 among module authors is not yet very high -- that leads to no one
> being able to port because their dependencies have not been
> ported.
This summary is not entirely incorrect.

I want the FPG to contain a statement on the intention of this proposal:

* to allow a smooth transition from python2 to python3, on the
background of a strong intention to abandon python2.
* to encourage upstreams and packagers to upgrade their works to python3.
* people to consider this python2/python3 parallelism to be temporary.


Background of this rationale:
* Continuing support for obsolete toolchains encourages developers to
not switch away from obsolete toolsets.
Experience tells, packages which rely on obsolete toolchains often tend
to be poorly maintained and to be gradually suffer from bit-rot in
longer terms

* Parallel installation causes bloat (DVD space) and additional effort.


My vote: -1, without explicity emphasize on an intention to abandon
python2 and the temporary nature of this rule.

In an ideal world, this rule would be combined with a projected deadline
of when Fedora intends to abandon python2.

Ralf
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