>>>>> "RD" == Rex Dieter <rdieter@math.unl.edu> writes:

RD> Packages, in general, should not create data outside of what's
RD> managed by %files.

Of course, the devil is in the specifics. I wouldn't expect that
uninstalling a package would remove its logs, for example.

I would hope that packagers would think about the data generated by the
running code and consider whether there's a valid reason for keeping it
around after the package is removed, or conversely whether removing it
is likely to delete something that the user expects to keep. Actually
deleting useful data is something to be avoided at all costs.

I suspect that there's no other rules that could be applied other than
common sense and the principle of least surprise.

- J<

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Should just note here that dpkg is quite nuanced in how it removes
packages compared to rpm:

There are two states: normal removal of a package doesn't remove any
configuration files. That's so you can reinstall a package and not
have to reconfigure it. So called "purge" removes the configuration
files too.

I would think the same thing applies to removing generated data --
that there should be 3 states: remove just the package, remove the
package and generated data, or remove the package and generated data
and configuration files.

Rich.

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On Wed, 18 Nov 2009, Richard W.M. Jones wrote:



Should just note here that dpkg is quite nuanced in how it removes
packages compared to rpm:

There are two states: normal removal of a package doesn't remove any
configuration files. That's so you can reinstall a package and not
have to reconfigure it. So called "purge" removes the configuration
files too.

I would think the same thing applies to removing generated data --
that there should be 3 states: remove just the package, remove the
package and generated data, or remove the package and generated data
and configuration files.


If y'all want to change the behavior of an rpm -e then you need to talking
to the rpm-maint list at rpm.org


not here.

-sv

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On 11/18/2009 12:49 PM, Rex Dieter wrote:

On 11/18/2009 11:44 AM, Tom Lane wrote:

John Dennis<jdennis@redhat.com> writes:

My inclination is the packaging guidelines should encourage the removal
of data files generated by the package when the package is removed.


In the case of the database packages the longstanding policy is the
opposite. I can see encouraging packagers to remove orphaned preference
or configuration files, but not potentially-high-value user data.


whole-heartedly agree, it's something that really is best managed on a
case-by-case basis (probably one reason why it's not in the
guidelines... yet).


Both Rex and Tom immediately converged on exactly the issue I was
thinking about, database style packages.


I can see a strong argument for preserving the content after package
removal, if this is the precedence I think the guidelines should at
least state this, but permit per-package interpretation as opposed to
enforcing a mandate.


However I can also see a strong argument for wanting a package to clean
up after itself so that a user does not have to find every place a
package has written files, which in many instances is not so easy to
discern. The principle of least surprise might suggest removing a
package removes everything associated with the package.


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On 11/18/2009 07:58 PM, Richard W.M. Jones wrote:

Should just note here that dpkg is quite nuanced in how it removes
packages compared to rpm:

There are two states: normal removal of a package doesn't remove any
configuration files. That's so you can reinstall a package and not
have to reconfigure it. So called "purge" removes the configuration
files too.

I would think the same thing applies to removing generated data --
that there should be 3 states: remove just the package,

great, let's just ignore %config(noreplace) / %config



remove the
package and generated data,
I would be more than unpleasantly surprised if rpm -e mysql-server
would remove the databases as well (you know, I might just want to move
them to another server and I've started by removing the software first)
or rpm -e rrdtool would remove all the collected / processed data. And
so on, you get the drill.
That is, unless you teach rpm about "--purge" or something similar,
which should be neither default nor discussed on this list but in rpm's
upstream.

or remove the package and generated data and configuration files.




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