On Tue, 1 Apr 2008, Warren Togami wrote:

I wonder if this will bring back the original reason why we got rid of
the various pictures in Anaconda. Because we can thank someone, only to
have other people we left out upset. We will never remember every
individual or company involved.


Every company: a relatively small subset. Red Hat clearly deserves the #1
spot here.


Every individual: a simple review of CLA signers.

--g

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On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 4:26 PM, Greg DeKoenigsberg <gdk@redhat.com> wrote:
>
> So I'm going to ask this question to you, the friendly Fedora marketing
> team.
>
> But first, a history lesson:
>
> http://lwn.net/Articles/83360/
>
> This is pretty much the most accurate depiction of how the great brand
> gulf between Fedora and Red Hat started. And in many people's minds, that
> gulf has grown to such an extent that many don't have any way of
> associating Red Hat with Fedora *at all*.

If people don't know there is an association between Fedora and Red
Hat I don't think they are paying very much attention. It is already
mentioned in the System-About Fedora menu, on the front page of
fedoraproject.org, and countless other places.

> So let me ask you:
>
> If, in splash screens for Fedora, we put a tasteful "sponsored by Red Hat"
> with the Shadowman logo somewhere small... how would you all feel about
> that?

Giving credit and thanks to supporters of the project, whether
corporate or individuals, is a good thing. I think choosing which to
single out might be difficult to do in a fair manner. How many
corporations support Fedora by encouraging/allowing employees to
contribute? What level of support is required to have your corporate
logo on display?

I'd like to maybe be a little more clear about the purpose of doing
this. If it is what can we do to make people think Red Hat when they
hear Fedora then we are thinking about issues not relevant to this
goal (although acknowledging contributors is always a great thing to
do). Are there other ways to perhaps accomplish this?

When I talk with people about Fedora they always learn about the
connection it has to Red Hat, they don't always learn about the
connection it has with many other commercial enterprises and the more
I think about that the more I feel I do a disservice to other valuable
contributors already. A summary of information about which
corporations contribute and how would be nice for ambassadors to have
access to so they can do more to spread the word about the breadth of
support Fedora gets from the commercial community.

John

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On Mon, 2008-03-31 at 17:52 -0400, Jon Stanley wrote:
> On Mon, Mar 31, 2008 at 5:26 PM, Greg DeKoenigsberg <gdk@redhat.com> wrote:
>
> > http://lwn.net/Articles/83360/
>
> That's ancient history at this point.

... but still the funniest thing I love to go back to re-read. It's
like a bruise on your funny bone -- hurts and makes you laugh at the
same time.

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On Mon, 2008-03-31 at 23:59 +0200, Jeroen van Meeuwen wrote:
> Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:
> > So let me ask you:
> >
> > If, in splash screens for Fedora, we put a tasteful "sponsored by Red
> > Hat" with the Shadowman logo somewhere small... how would you all feel
> > about that?
> >
>
> Maybe make it say "Heavily sponsored by Red Hat", as to not get only
> half the truth out there.

I first read that as "heavenly sponsored by Red Hat", which I think is
just a tad bit too much. 'Cause then people like me would be demiurges,
and I don't feel that pow'ful.

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On Tue, 2008-04-01 at 10:51 -0400, Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:
> On Tue, 1 Apr 2008, Francesco Ugolini wrote:
>
> >> > i will quote GregdeKoenigsberg:
> >> >
> >> > "The Fedora brand must evolve separately from Red Hat's brand. Fedora is very
> >> > important to Red Hat, but Fedora is not Red Hat. It's really crucial to
> >> > understand that distinction."
> >> >
> >> > so -1 again.
> >>
> >> +1 to Joerg, and -1 to co-branding.
>
> OK, then, let me propose something different and a bit less intrusive:

A quick discussion halt here.

Joerg -- your reply was made to a related but *completely different
discussion*. Greg's comment you quoted refers to a policy, not a
particular action.

Putting any kind of "sponsored by" stuff in Anaconda does not mean we
have suddenly changed all of our policy about co-branding.

One can still be against the concept of co-branding[1] while still
acknowledging sponsorship, partnerships, and other relationships.

Co-branding is a big effort; look at the situation with Red Hat and
JBoss to see how that is going. Personally, I don't think Fedora needs
co-branding to succeed, and it would distract from our mission.

But that's really orthogonal to if we want to show some love for Red Hat
(and other sponsors), as well as showing lots of love for the community.

[1] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co-branding


> maybe we could put a "corporate sponsorship" slide into the Anaconda
> install flow? "Thanks to our corporate sponsors". With a big Shadowman,
> and then smaller logos from lots of other companies. Since it would just
> be a single slide, we could make it as NASCAR-y as we wanted.
>
> --g
>
> --
> Greg DeKoenigsberg
> Community Development Manager
> Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255
> "To whomsoever much hath been given...
> ...from him much shall be asked"
>
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Am Dienstag, 1. April 2008 18:45:59 schrieb Karsten 'quaid' Wade:
> A quick discussion halt here.
>
> Joerg -- your reply was made to a related but *completely different
> discussion*. Greg's comment you quoted refers to a policy, not a
> particular action.

Karsten, i answered direct to a Topic from Greg called
"Associating the Red Hat and Fedora brands?"
<https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-marketing-list/2008-March/msg00300.html>
He asked for opinions and in my eyes this answer was related.
I would love to explain it more eloquent, but i am not so skilled with the
english language. Maybe some of my words are to straight - sorry for that.
First off all, as private Person i have a shadowman sticker on my notebook ;-)

I will try to explain my personal reasons, why this idea is supect for me.
I am not a Marketing Strategic Guy - i am a Fedora Ambassador and i love it,
because there is - besides all the work - fun!
From my perspective a mix with the RedHat Logo will complicate my work as
Ambassador, and this is not fun! ;-)
Nothing against a little sponsored by RedHat - but is this just the
beginning? Where will this end?
What when i want to use a Screenshot or a Artwork for a Poster that contain
the RedHat Brand in Relation with Fedora?
In the past we Ambassadors in Europe had especially Problems to clarify that a
non-RedHat Contributor is not allowed to use the RedHat Brand. And there was
endless discussions about it.

We had a lot work to do in Europe to tell the people that the Fedoraproject is
not a "RedHat-Fanboys use a RedHat produced Community Distribution"-Project!

We had also different discussions with the german press, because their
articles about Fedora started always with RedHat in the Headline - and that
was the wrong exposure. On events i watched other Linux Projects and I always
was proud that the FedoraProject was not so obvious dictated by a Company.
Some of this so-called Community Projects must pay for the booth - because the
Sponsors noise was a little bit to loud. And we in Germany face this Problem
also for Fedora. It is Fact , we all want serios evolution for the
Fedoraproject and everyone in the Fedoraproject tries to improve and do
his "Job" with the best that he can contribute.

Think over what would the Fedoraproject win and what would we lose.
I can only speak as one Ambassador who cover a lot of events, more loss then
win, because i had not one of the visitors who contributed to Fedoraproject
because i told him that we are sponsored by RedHat. They have to know that
they can use the knowledge from the Fedora Project for their work with RedHat
but that is something complete different.
I hope my words offended nobody - this was not my intention.

I have only one voice but still -1 (the third) ;-) -


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