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Old 04-25-2010, 03:14 PM
Gerard Braad
 
Default Chinese marketing

Hello,


soon I will go to Beijing, China (for family and work); I will be busy
with the promotion of FLOSS. One of those efforts deal with assisting
the Chinese Fedora Community. We have already done a lot, but I was
wondering if any efforts were taken to have marketing in the Chinese
language; if not... I can assist with the marketing which is tailored
towards the culture and audience and have people involved who can
assist in the longterm.

kind regards,


Gerard - 吉拉德

Fedora Ambassador
Project-lead Fedora-MIPS
Member of Fedora *文用户组
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Old 04-25-2010, 03:28 PM
Paul Frields
 
Default Chinese marketing

On Sun, Apr 25, 2010 at 11:14 AM, Gerard Braad <gbraad@fedoraproject.org> wrote:
> Hello,
>
>
> soon I will go to Beijing, China (for family and work); I will be busy
> with the promotion of FLOSS. One of those efforts deal with assisting
> the Chinese Fedora Community. We have already done a lot, but I was
> wondering if any efforts were taken to have marketing in the Chinese
> language; if not... I can assist with the marketing which is tailored
> towards the culture and audience and have people involved who can
> assist in the longterm.

Gerard,

We would be *very* interested. We have a few Ambassadors in China, as
I'm sure you're aware. We have a fairly strong translation community
in China, but we should strive to do more than just provide
translations of existing content. It would be very helpful to have
someone who can bridge the considerable language gap.

For a start, Gerard, maybe you can identify some of the primary gaps
we have. What questions to Chinese Fedora users and potential
contributors have? In what areas can we improve information we offer
to Chinese speaking people?

Another question in which I'm keenly interested is, where do Chinese
users get Fedora? If they're using mirrors in China, are there enough
of them? Can we find more administrators willing to distribute Fedora
on mirrors?

Paul
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Old 04-26-2010, 11:12 AM
Mel Chua
 
Default Chinese marketing

> For a start, Gerard, maybe you can identify some of the primary gaps
> we have. What questions to Chinese Fedora users and potential
> contributors have? In what areas can we improve information we offer
> to Chinese speaking people?
>
> Another question in which I'm keenly interested is, where do Chinese
> users get Fedora? If they're using mirrors in China, are there enough
> of them? Can we find more administrators willing to distribute Fedora
> on mirrors?

Congratulations on the move, Gerard! I'd add to Paul's list of questions
above with "how can we make it easier for members of the Chinese Fedora
community to participate in the Marketing (and Ambassadors) teams, and
how can we better keep up with what they're doing?

I know we now have a mailing list (thanks to you and Kaio and everyone
else who made this happen!)
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chinese and that
there's been a Planet for a while (http://planet.fedora-zh.org/), but
I'm not sure if there's anywhere else that would be good to watch - or
actually, if we want to specifically start discussing global/regional
marketing and PR strategies here, perhaps for the F14 release. So far
we've just been making deliverables in English and considering any
translation we get to be a very happy bonus.

--Mel
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Old 04-26-2010, 11:31 AM
Paul Frields
 
Default Chinese marketing

On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 7:12 AM, Mel Chua <mel@redhat.com> wrote:
>> For a start, Gerard, maybe you can identify some of the primary gaps
>> we have. What questions to Chinese Fedora users and potential
>> contributors have? In what areas can we improve information we offer
>> to Chinese speaking people?
>>
>> Another question in which I'm keenly interested is, where do Chinese
>> users get Fedora? If they're using mirrors in China, are there enough
>> of them? Can we find more administrators willing to distribute Fedora
>> on mirrors?
>
> Congratulations on the move, Gerard! I'd add to Paul's list of questions
> above with "how can we make it easier for members of the Chinese Fedora
> community to participate in the Marketing (and Ambassadors) teams, and how
> can we better keep up with what they're doing?
>
> I know we now have a mailing list (thanks to you and Kaio and everyone else
> who made this happen!)
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/chinese and that there's
> been a Planet for a while (http://planet.fedora-zh.org/), but I'm not sure
> if there's anywhere else that would be good to watch - or actually, if we
> want to specifically start discussing global/regional marketing and PR
> strategies here, perhaps for the F14 release. So far we've just been making
> deliverables in English and considering any translation we get to be a very
> happy bonus.

I just saw the planet feed Mel pointed out above. Gerard, I could use
some help here relaying to the Chinese community our trademark
concerns. Generally, communities are definitely allowed to use our CSS
for their sites, but they can't mix that with the use of the Fedora
trademarks. When I visit that site, it looks exactly like a Fedora
Project official site, when in fact we have no control over it. We
need the site maintainers to do a couple things:

* Remove the Fedora logo from the top left.
* Make sure the copyright notice at the bottom does not indicate that
the site is owned or sponsored by Red Hat or the Fedora Project.

Our trademark guidelines are located here, in case they're useful:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Legal:Trademark_guidelines

Gerard, you might want to point out to these folks that we can provide
a planet.fp.o/zh "official" feed for them to use if they're
interested, which would then be allowed to carry the trademarks since
it's run by Fedora itself. But they'd still need to make the changes
shown above. These requirements are the same for all Fedora comunity
members that set up non-commercial Fedora-related sites. Let me know
if I can provide some more help or explanation if needed.

Paul
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Old 04-26-2010, 07:17 PM
Gerard Braad
 
Default Chinese marketing

Hi Paul,

> Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2010 11:28:22 -0400 From: Paul Frields
> <stickster@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Chinese marketing Message-ID:
> <l2sef93afcf1004250828m73202e71v6c243f347c6422b0@m ail.gmail.com>
Sorry for breaking the thread; issue with the tools, digest-mode and
Gmail's IMAP.

I recently got involved in the Chinese Fedora Community... and try to
assist them anyway possible by being the bridge between language and
culture.

With several ambassadors I set out a long term vision for the Chinese
community: "Growing the Chinese community into a self-organizing and
healthy community. The main goal is to enlarge the Chinese Fedora
Community and seeking new talents to contribute to the mainstream
development. We pursue a very good involvement with and from the Western
Fedora Community and having a yearly FAD"... and show China can be a
host for a FUDcon in the APAC area ;-).

In a document I set out several points to focus on: Mirroring
possibilities, Packaging and Development, Translation work, MIPS port of
Fedora, Organizing a Fedora event, Ambassadors and Mentoring, Creating a
better platform for the community and Marketing.
> For a start, Gerard, maybe you can identify some of the primary gaps
> we have. What questions to Chinese Fedora users and potential
> contributors have? In what areas can we improve information we offer
> to Chinese speaking people?
>

A solution to the gap and have the Chinese community more involved, was
to have the Chinese mailinglist hosted by Fedora. This is now done...
but still more can be done. As you pointed out in another email, having
the planet hosted in the same way would be great!

The biggest issue is that the Fedora brand is not very well known. That
is the reason why I want to focus on the marketing side of Fedora.
Distributions like Ubuntu and Gentoo have a large group of followers and
enthusiasts; IMO Fedora would be a perfect solution between these. But
for this there needs to be means to convey the message; who we focus on,
what we provide, the four foundations, etc. At the moment, this kind of
material is non-existent.

I would seldom talk about them, but the other issue is of course the
'cultural difference'. For example, most Chinese I spoke did not have
the sense of Summer Coding... as they saw this as Western-only
'competition'. After explaining them what it means and could provide
them, it opens them up more and they see it as a competitive
advantage... but until now, I have not seen any of them enter the FSC.

But we also have simple problems which can easily be addressed: the
Fedora Ambassadors have no shirts. I am planning to have these made in
China, according to the logo guidelines, so we can issue these. Goal:
the Ambassadors should be able to promote the brand during for instance
a local Software Freedom Day 2010 event! (and of course as a general
means to show their involvement).
> Another question in which I'm keenly interested is, where do Chinese
> users get Fedora? If they're using mirrors in China, are there enough
> of them? Can we find more administrators willing to distribute Fedora
> on mirrors?
>
This was the first thing I started to work when I approached Mel an
Kaio. By that time four active mirrors were available for all of China.
Mike McGrath told me that Chinese seldom approach them about mirroring
options; this is also not something in the nature of the Chinese. My
goal was to gain two new mirrors before the release of Fedora 13. After
a long haul we finally gained an extra mirror in Beijing. For the moment
I think we have a good foundation to cope with community and userbase
growth (a good start to focus on the brand and getting people involved) ;-).

As you can see, a lot has been started... but it is far from done.

kind regards,


Gerard - 吉拉德

Fedora Ambassador
Project-lead Fedora-MIPS
Member of Fedora *文用户组
--
marketing mailing list
marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
 
Old 04-26-2010, 11:36 PM
"Paul W. Frields"
 
Default Chinese marketing

On Mon, Apr 26, 2010 at 09:17:57PM +0200, Gerard Braad wrote:
> Hi Paul,
>
> > Date: Sun, 25 Apr 2010 11:28:22 -0400 From: Paul Frields
> > <stickster@gmail.com> Subject: Re: Chinese marketing Message-ID:
> > <l2sef93afcf1004250828m73202e71v6c243f347c6422b0@m ail.gmail.com>
> Sorry for breaking the thread; issue with the tools, digest-mode and
> Gmail's IMAP.
>
> I recently got involved in the Chinese Fedora Community... and try to
> assist them anyway possible by being the bridge between language and
> culture.
>
> With several ambassadors I set out a long term vision for the Chinese
> community: "Growing the Chinese community into a self-organizing and
> healthy community. The main goal is to enlarge the Chinese Fedora
> Community and seeking new talents to contribute to the mainstream
> development. We pursue a very good involvement with and from the Western
> Fedora Community and having a yearly FAD"... and show China can be a
> host for a FUDcon in the APAC area ;-).
>
> In a document I set out several points to focus on: Mirroring
> possibilities, Packaging and Development, Translation work, MIPS port of
> Fedora, Organizing a Fedora event, Ambassadors and Mentoring, Creating a
> better platform for the community and Marketing.

Your goal statement is perfect, Gerard. The goal of building the
community should definitely be to give them the tools, and help them
become self-sustainable.

> > For a start, Gerard, maybe you can identify some of the primary gaps
> > we have. What questions to Chinese Fedora users and potential
> > contributors have? In what areas can we improve information we offer
> > to Chinese speaking people?
> >
>
> A solution to the gap and have the Chinese community more involved, was
> to have the Chinese mailinglist hosted by Fedora. This is now done...
> but still more can be done. As you pointed out in another email, having
> the planet hosted in the same way would be great!

Excellent, glad to hear it.

> The biggest issue is that the Fedora brand is not very well known. That
> is the reason why I want to focus on the marketing side of Fedora.
> Distributions like Ubuntu and Gentoo have a large group of followers and
> enthusiasts; IMO Fedora would be a perfect solution between these. But
> for this there needs to be means to convey the message; who we focus on,
> what we provide, the four foundations, etc. At the moment, this kind of
> material is non-existent.

Fedora has always taken a hit in terms of brand recognition because
our sponsor did not invest in carpet-bombing the planet with discs.
On the other hand, we have worked hard to create reasonable
expectations around our distribution and project and encourage
contribution.

Our wiki does have a lot of this information, but the wiki itself is
not well-equipped for translation in place. It's certainly *open*
enough, though, so if there are a small number of translators who are
willing to read and translate that content into new wiki pages for
Chinese readers, they could begin essentially at any time.

Another possibility is to create a more formal document using
Publican, and then use translation infrastructure to provide Chinese
contributors a way to translate it -- and at the same time, any other
locales as well. However, someone would need to pull together all the
content, and convert it into a Publican format (DocBook XML).

> I would seldom talk about them, but the other issue is of course the
> 'cultural difference'. For example, most Chinese I spoke did not have
> the sense of Summer Coding... as they saw this as Western-only
> 'competition'. After explaining them what it means and could provide
> them, it opens them up more and they see it as a competitive
> advantage... but until now, I have not seen any of them enter the FSC.
>
> But we also have simple problems which can easily be addressed: the
> Fedora Ambassadors have no shirts. I am planning to have these made in
> China, according to the logo guidelines, so we can issue these. Goal:
> the Ambassadors should be able to promote the brand during for instance
> a local Software Freedom Day 2010 event! (and of course as a general
> means to show their involvement).
> > Another question in which I'm keenly interested is, where do Chinese
> > users get Fedora? If they're using mirrors in China, are there enough
> > of them? Can we find more administrators willing to distribute Fedora
> > on mirrors?
> >
> This was the first thing I started to work when I approached Mel an
> Kaio. By that time four active mirrors were available for all of China.
> Mike McGrath told me that Chinese seldom approach them about mirroring
> options; this is also not something in the nature of the Chinese. My
> goal was to gain two new mirrors before the release of Fedora 13. After
> a long haul we finally gained an extra mirror in Beijing. For the moment
> I think we have a good foundation to cope with community and userbase
> growth (a good start to focus on the brand and getting people involved) ;-).
>
> As you can see, a lot has been started... but it is far from done.

I think having someone present in China to bridge the divide is going
to be a very important step for us, Gerard. I've had several email
conversations over the last year trying to find different ways to get
system administrators and other tech contacts to help us find people
in China who want to contribute to free software and Fedora. It's
been very difficult because the language barrier gets even higher over
email.

So your email clearly indicates our outreach needs to be very
proactive to make progress in the Chinese community. What people,
places, or groups do you propose to visit or talk with as a start?

--
Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/
gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/
Where open source multiplies: http://opensource.com
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Old 05-03-2010, 07:28 PM
Gerard Braad
 
Default Chinese marketing

A little belated reaction... have been very busy recently with
arranging stuff for my move to China.

On Tue, Apr 27, 2010 at 1:36 AM, Paul W. Frields <stickster@gmail.com> wrote:
> Your goal statement is perfect, Gerard. *The goal of building the
> community should definitely be to give them the tools, and help them
> become self-sustainable.

The statement is not perfect in my own opinion as I only geared it
towards the western community as being 'leading'. Recently I got in
touch with Rahul Sundaram and see how we facing similar challenges and
how we can cooperate. The same goes for the other Asian communities...

> Fedora has always taken a hit in terms of brand recognition because
> our sponsor did not invest in carpet-bombing the planet with discs.

Well, for the Asian area it is easier to do carpet-bombing of
LiveDVDs. These are generally easy to produce in China and also very
cheap. It might be possible to distribute them from here to other
places...

> Another possibility is to create a more formal document using
> Publican, and then use translation infrastructure to provide Chinese
> contributors a way to translate it -- and at the same time, any other
> locales as well. *However, someone would need to pull together all the
> content, and convert it into a Publican format (DocBook XML).

It does not sound like this is easy to do. A lot of time would be
wasted on preparing it, but maybe in the long-term this would allow to
better manage our marketing efforts in any language.

> I think having someone present in China to bridge the divide is going
> to be a very important step for us, Gerard. *I've had several email
> conversations over the last year trying to find different ways to get
> system administrators and other tech contacts to help us find people
> in China who want to contribute to free software and Fedora. *It's
> been very difficult because the language barrier gets even higher over
> email.
> So your email clearly indicates our outreach needs to be very
> proactive to make progress in the Chinese community.

It takes time, especially to win trust. I am luckily for having a
Chinese partner and understanding the culture... since knowing Chinese
language, even just a little, can win this more easily. But I also
want it to be their community. The focus should remain on it being a
Chinese effort, more than being Western. I would say, give them the
means to develop... provide them with a platform... deliver the
tools... but don't take direction away from them, just steer them.

> What people,
> places, or groups do you propose to visit or talk with as a start?

I currently have planned to meet up with some people in Beijing.
Mostly in different fields of the Open Source community and even
hardware and software. As soon as I am in China again I will focus on
commitment of the current ambassadors as I said before; shirts and get
events planned like participation in SFD 2010. In July I will also
give a presentation about Fedora at the BeijingLUG. I haven't settle
for a subject yet, but probably a general talk. Introduce Fedora an
the project and explain how people can involve. And related to it I
wanted to start a Fedora interest group for activities.

As you notice most activities currently deal with Beijing. Depending
on possible employment I can plan further activities for other cities.
Currently this is unknown. I am also trying to see what the other
ambassadors can do in e.g. Xi'an, Shanghai, HongKong, etc.

Let me first set foot in China as things will be a lot easier being in
the same timezone again.


Gerard - 吉拉德
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