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Old 04-21-2010, 04:07 PM
Nelson Marques
 
Default Why Linux isn't attracting young developers

Though this seems to be a very specific article, it is still valid, and
the most interesting is actually the replies its having.

http://linux.slashdot.org/story/10/04/18/1557220/Why-Linux-Is-Not-Attracting-Young-Developers

In case someone wants to check it out, I recommend it. And yes, this is
deeply related and a good source for Marketing people 8)

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Old 04-21-2010, 04:13 PM
"Jan Wildeboer"
 
Default Why Linux isn't attracting young developers

The *real* problem however is that young people hardly see any benefit in
becoming a develoiper. With universities that effectively are microsoft gold
resellers, with twitter, Facebook, Apple telling them that it still all is
AOL' 95, why should they care?

;-)

Jan

----- Original Message -----
From: marketing-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org
<marketing-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org>
To: For discussions about marketing and expanding the Fedora user base
<marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org>
Sent: Wed Apr 21 12:07:17 2010
Subject: Why Linux isn't attracting young developers


Though this seems to be a very specific article, it is still valid, and
the most interesting is actually the replies its having.

http://linux.slashdot.org/story/10/04/18/1557220/Why-Linux-Is-Not-Attracting-Young-Developers

In case someone wants to check it out, I recommend it. And yes, this is
deeply related and a good source for Marketing people 8)

--
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https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
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Old 04-21-2010, 04:15 PM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default Why Linux isn't attracting young developers

On 04/21/2010 09:37 PM, Nelson Marques wrote:
> Though this seems to be a very specific article, it is still valid, and
> the most interesting is actually the replies its having.
>
> http://linux.slashdot.org/story/10/04/18/1557220/Why-Linux-Is-Not-Attracting-Young-Developers
>
> In case someone wants to check it out, I recommend it. And yes, this is
> deeply related and a good source for Marketing people 8)
>

You might also want to read LWN's response (available only to
subscribers but I give you a free link offlist if you want)

Rahul

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Old 04-21-2010, 04:17 PM
Tony Guntharp
 
Default Why Linux isn't attracting young developers

This article primarily relates to Kernel development. The real issue
is that kernel development is in fact "hard". It's generally far more
difficult that anything you learn in school/university and most
developers don't get to the skill level required to work on the kernel
until they've been in the corporate workforce for years solving real
problems not theoretical ones.

-t

Tony Guntharp
Co-Founder SourceForge.net
1 (415) 694-3732



On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 09:13, Jan Wildeboer <jwildebo@redhat.com> wrote:
> The *real* problem however is that young people hardly see any benefit in
> becoming a develoiper. With universities that effectively are microsoft gold
> resellers, with twitter, Facebook, Apple telling them that it still all is
> AOL' 95, why should they care?
>
> ;-)
>
> Jan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: marketing-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org
> <marketing-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org>
> To: For discussions about marketing and expanding the Fedora user base
> <marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org>
> Sent: Wed Apr 21 12:07:17 2010
> Subject: Why Linux isn't attracting young developers
>
>
> *Though this seems to be a very specific article, it is still valid, and
> the most interesting is actually the replies its having.
>
> http://linux.slashdot.org/story/10/04/18/1557220/Why-Linux-Is-Not-Attracting-Young-Developers
>
> *In case someone wants to check it out, I recommend it. And yes, this is
> deeply related and a good source for Marketing people 8)
>
> --
> marketing mailing list
> marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
> --
> marketing mailing list
> marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
>
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Old 04-21-2010, 04:29 PM
Robyn Bergeron
 
Default Why Linux isn't attracting young developers

On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 9:17 AM, Tony Guntharp <fusion94@gmail.com> wrote:
> This article primarily relates to Kernel development. The real issue
> is that kernel development is in fact "hard". It's generally far more
> difficult that anything you learn in school/university and most
> developers don't get to the skill level required to work on the kernel
> until they've been in the corporate workforce for years solving real
> problems not theoretical ones.

Well - and as is pointed out - the kernel wasn't this complicated back
when many of the developers were -in college- (or their early careers,
etc). If they were confronted then with what one is facing now as a
beginning kernel dev... it would be a whole different story.

There are also significantly more places to contribute now than 15+
years ago; people aren't as focused on "making my computer work" as
they are on "i want this XYZ application of mine to work." I think
the problem is really that very few people think about how they could
further enhance how things work, fundamentally, when they're - for the
most part - generally happy with how things are working now.




>
> -t
>
> Tony Guntharp
> Co-Founder SourceForge.net
> 1 (415) 694-3732
>
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 09:13, Jan Wildeboer <jwildebo@redhat.com> wrote:
>> The *real* problem however is that young people hardly see any benefit in
>> becoming a develoiper. With universities that effectively are microsoft gold
>> resellers, with twitter, Facebook, Apple telling them that it still all is
>> AOL' 95, why should they care?
>>
>> ;-)
>>
>> Jan
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: marketing-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org
>> <marketing-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org>
>> To: For discussions about marketing and expanding the Fedora user base
>> <marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org>
>> Sent: Wed Apr 21 12:07:17 2010
>> Subject: Why Linux isn't attracting young developers
>>
>>
>> *Though this seems to be a very specific article, it is still valid, and
>> the most interesting is actually the replies its having.
>>
>> http://linux.slashdot.org/story/10/04/18/1557220/Why-Linux-Is-Not-Attracting-Young-Developers
>>
>> *In case someone wants to check it out, I recommend it. And yes, this is
>> deeply related and a good source for Marketing people 8)
>>
>> --
>> marketing mailing list
>> marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org
>> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
>> --
>> marketing mailing list
>> marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org
>> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
>>
> --
> marketing mailing list
> marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
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Old 04-21-2010, 04:31 PM
Tony Guntharp
 
Default Why Linux isn't attracting young developers

That's a fair assessment. The kernel has no progressed to the point
where it's stable and mature. Besides kids today want to work on
what's sexy and cool and trust me, kernel development isn't either.

-t

Tony Guntharp
Co-Founder SourceForge.net
1 (415) 694-3732



On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 09:29, Robyn Bergeron <robyn.bergeron@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 9:17 AM, Tony Guntharp <fusion94@gmail.com> wrote:
>> This article primarily relates to Kernel development. The real issue
>> is that kernel development is in fact "hard". It's generally far more
>> difficult that anything you learn in school/university and most
>> developers don't get to the skill level required to work on the kernel
>> until they've been in the corporate workforce for years solving real
>> problems not theoretical ones.
>
> Well - and as is pointed out - the kernel wasn't this complicated back
> when many of the developers were -in college- (or their early careers,
> etc). If they were confronted then with what one is facing now as a
> beginning kernel dev... it would be a whole different story.
>
> There are also significantly more places to contribute now than 15+
> years ago; people aren't as focused on "making my computer work" as
> they are on "i want this XYZ application of mine to work." *I think
> the problem is really that very few people think about how they could
> further enhance how things work, fundamentally, when they're - for the
> most part - generally happy with how things are working now.
>
>
>
>
>>
>> -t
>>
>> Tony Guntharp
>> Co-Founder SourceForge.net
>> 1 (415) 694-3732
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 09:13, Jan Wildeboer <jwildebo@redhat.com> wrote:
>>> The *real* problem however is that young people hardly see any benefit in
>>> becoming a develoiper. With universities that effectively are microsoft gold
>>> resellers, with twitter, Facebook, Apple telling them that it still all is
>>> AOL' 95, why should they care?
>>>
>>> ;-)
>>>
>>> Jan
>>>
>>> ----- Original Message -----
>>> From: marketing-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org
>>> <marketing-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org>
>>> To: For discussions about marketing and expanding the Fedora user base
>>> <marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org>
>>> Sent: Wed Apr 21 12:07:17 2010
>>> Subject: Why Linux isn't attracting young developers
>>>
>>>
>>> *Though this seems to be a very specific article, it is still valid, and
>>> the most interesting is actually the replies its having.
>>>
>>> http://linux.slashdot.org/story/10/04/18/1557220/Why-Linux-Is-Not-Attracting-Young-Developers
>>>
>>> *In case someone wants to check it out, I recommend it. And yes, this is
>>> deeply related and a good source for Marketing people 8)
>>>
>>> --
>>> marketing mailing list
>>> marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org
>>> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
>>> --
>>> marketing mailing list
>>> marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org
>>> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
>>>
>> --
>> marketing mailing list
>> marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org
>> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
>
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Old 04-21-2010, 04:46 PM
Nelson Marques
 
Default Why Linux isn't attracting young developers

I have submited this, not to focus on kernel develop, though the article
is nice and the featured links provide good information, we need to:

# think out of the box

>From all those comments, I've went through many of them... and I got to
recognize that there are some valid stuff there that we can actually
related to Fedora and possibly use such input for thinking in a
different way about it.

Though it's pointed kernel development, I would believe that some of
those problems are also shared with us. I'm not after why the
corporations this or that, or if there would be corporations or not. The
important part is what people who have gone through and not went through
FOSS devep have to say, their points of view. Eventually we can dig in
some important info from here to think over on ways in which we can be
more attractive to new developers/etc enrolling on FOSS projects such as
Fedora.

For those who are not aware, there is also some fuss about the future
of OpenSolaris and whatever Oracle want's to do with it. Some say
"FORK", but forking starts with knifes and some backstabs on their own,
because such communities many times do not have structure to fork
whatever they want to fork. And unlike us, they probably don't have so
many people committed to it.

Honestly, facing the very huge allegations and replies from slashdot
users... can we take some points to think over stuff we can actually
improve here on Fedora so that no one would write or refer to us in that
way? Basically, what can we take from there that could help us continue
a great story of success ?

I mean, we need to get more people enrolled 8)



On Wed, 2010-04-21 at 17:07 +0100, Nelson Marques wrote:
> Though this seems to be a very specific article, it is still valid, and
> the most interesting is actually the replies its having.
>
> http://linux.slashdot.org/story/10/04/18/1557220/Why-Linux-Is-Not-Attracting-Young-Developers
>
> In case someone wants to check it out, I recommend it. And yes, this is
> deeply related and a good source for Marketing people 8)
>


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Old 04-21-2010, 04:46 PM
Leigh Cantrell Day
 
Default Why Linux isn't attracting young developers

Is there any demographic data available that accurately depicts the
Fedora community, beyond the maintainer group?

thx,
leigh


Jan Wildeboer wrote:
> The *real* problem however is that young people hardly see any benefit in
> becoming a develoiper. With universities that effectively are microsoft gold
> resellers, with twitter, Facebook, Apple telling them that it still all is
> AOL' 95, why should they care?
>
> ;-)
>
> Jan
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: marketing-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org
> <marketing-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org>
> To: For discussions about marketing and expanding the Fedora user base
> <marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org>
> Sent: Wed Apr 21 12:07:17 2010
> Subject: Why Linux isn't attracting young developers
>
>
> Though this seems to be a very specific article, it is still valid, and
> the most interesting is actually the replies its having.
>
> http://linux.slashdot.org/story/10/04/18/1557220/Why-Linux-Is-Not-Attracting-Young-Developers
>
> In case someone wants to check it out, I recommend it. And yes, this is
> deeply related and a good source for Marketing people 8)
>

--
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Old 04-21-2010, 04:57 PM
Robyn Bergeron
 
Default Why Linux isn't attracting young developers

Other than geographical locations - not really.

On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 9:46 AM, Leigh Cantrell Day <lday@redhat.com> wrote:
> Is there any demographic data available that accurately depicts the
> Fedora community, beyond the maintainer group?
>
> thx,
> leigh
>
>
> Jan Wildeboer wrote:
>> The *real* problem however is that young people hardly see any benefit in
>> becoming a develoiper. With universities that effectively are microsoft gold
>> resellers, with twitter, Facebook, Apple telling them that it still all is
>> AOL' 95, why should they care?
>>
>> ;-)
>>
>> Jan
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: marketing-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org
>> <marketing-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org>
>> To: For discussions about marketing and expanding the Fedora user base
>> <marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org>
>> Sent: Wed Apr 21 12:07:17 2010
>> Subject: Why Linux isn't attracting young developers
>>
>>
>> *Though this seems to be a very specific article, it is still valid, and
>> the most interesting is actually the replies its having.
>>
>> http://linux.slashdot.org/story/10/04/18/1557220/Why-Linux-Is-Not-Attracting-Young-Developers
>>
>> *In case someone wants to check it out, I recommend it. And yes, this is
>> deeply related and a good source for Marketing people 8)
>>
>
> --
> marketing mailing list
> marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
>
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Old 04-21-2010, 07:14 PM
Mel Chua
 
Default Why Linux isn't attracting young developers

>> On Wed, Apr 21, 2010 at 9:46 AM, Leigh Cantrell Day<lday@redhat.com> wrote:
>> Is there any demographic data available that accurately depicts the
>> Fedora community, beyond the maintainer group?

>On 04/21/2010 12:57 PM, Robyn Bergeron wrote:
> Other than geographical locations - not really.

Perhaps the question(s) should be "what kinds of demographic data would
we like, how can we get it, and what would we be able to do with it?"

The last one is the interesting one to me; there are some ideas on what
we might do with quantitative data
(https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Talk:Statistics_2.0#Marketing_Use_Cases)
but I have heard few discussions of how to gather and use qualitative
data - why is it that people do or don't join open source as
contributors, how do contributors get started, etc - and it seems to me
that those things may help us answer some of the questions brought up in
this thread.

Ccing Diana Martin since she's doing qualitative research on the Fedora
community and may have some insights as to how this sort of questions
would be tackled with those sorts of research tools. (Diana, the
original thread is
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/marketing/2010-April/012587.html,
for context.)

--Mel
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