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Old 04-20-2010, 04:04 PM
Adam Williamson
 
Default In the news: Zarafa

So, Zarafa is getting a lot of press attention:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=6298

some of it is fairly unflattering:

http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.php/3877446/Fedora-13-Beta-The-Seen-and-Troubling-Unseen.htm

I'm a bit uncomfortable with this myself; the availability of Zarafa in
Fedora seems to be being read in ways in which we certainly didn't
intend it (as an aspect of commercialization, as some kind of Red
Hat-parachuted feature and hence an indication of RH's future
directions, etc).

I'm wondering if perhaps we should pull Zarafa's mention as a 'feature'
of Fedora 13, or if not that, then certainly develop a more coherent
story about its inclusion, what it's for, why it's in Fedora, and the
whole 'open core' angle on it...

What do people think?
--
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org
http://www.happyassassin.net

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Old 04-20-2010, 04:59 PM
Stephen John Smoogen
 
Default In the news: Zarafa

On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 10:04 AM, Adam Williamson <awilliam@redhat.com> wrote:
> So, Zarafa is getting a lot of press attention:
>
> http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=6298
>
> some of it is fairly unflattering:
>
> http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.php/3877446/Fedora-13-Beta-The-Seen-and-Troubling-Unseen.htm
>
> I'm a bit uncomfortable with this myself; the availability of Zarafa in
> Fedora seems to be being read in ways in which we certainly didn't
> intend it (as an aspect of commercialization, as some kind of Red
> Hat-parachuted feature and hence an indication of RH's future
> directions, etc).
>
> I'm wondering if perhaps we should pull Zarafa's mention as a 'feature'
> of Fedora 13, or if not that, then certainly develop a more coherent
> story about its inclusion, what it's for, why it's in Fedora, and the
> whole 'open core' angle on it...
>
> What do people think?

>From experience with past releases, pulling it now will just get a lot
of press of another Red Hat 'FAIL' or confirmation that it was a
future direction. Its a no win situation with some kinds of press and
for others they just need to know what is really going on and they
will correct themselves.




--
Stephen J Smoogen.
“The core skill of innovators is error recovery, not failure avoidance.”
Randy Nelson, President of Pixar University.
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Old 04-20-2010, 05:47 PM
"Jan Wildeboer"
 
Default In the news: Zarafa

Now I am not in the "told you so" department, but it unfolds as I expected.

Not much we can do now without harming either Fedora or Zarafa.

Maybe Zarafa can think of renaming the open source edition just as fedora v
RHEL?

Jan

----- Original Message -----
From: marketing-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org
<marketing-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org>
To: marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org <marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org>
Sent: Tue Apr 20 12:04:28 2010
Subject: In the news: Zarafa

So, Zarafa is getting a lot of press attention:

http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=6298

some of it is fairly unflattering:

http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.php/3877446/Fedora-13-Beta-The-Seen-and-Troubling-Unseen.htm

I'm a bit uncomfortable with this myself; the availability of Zarafa in
Fedora seems to be being read in ways in which we certainly didn't
intend it (as an aspect of commercialization, as some kind of Red
Hat-parachuted feature and hence an indication of RH's future
directions, etc).

I'm wondering if perhaps we should pull Zarafa's mention as a 'feature'
of Fedora 13, or if not that, then certainly develop a more coherent
story about its inclusion, what it's for, why it's in Fedora, and the
whole 'open core' angle on it...

What do people think?
--
Adam Williamson
Fedora QA Community Monkey
IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org
http://www.happyassassin.net

--
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Old 04-20-2010, 07:01 PM
Joerg Simon
 
Default In the news: Zarafa

Hi Jan,

Am Dienstag, 20. April 2010 19:47:22 schrieb Jan Wildeboer:
> Now I am not in the "told you so" department, but it unfolds as I expected.
> Not much we can do now without harming either Fedora or Zarafa.

Harm? This sounds dramatized. Fedora is in the press with zarafa as a feature
- and we disussed pro and contra already a lot.

It is easy to oppose and disagree on new contributions - i know that it is
part of your job at Red Hat to be a "pain" to non-FOSS Vendors - but Fedora
is about enable and encourage people to contribute and i want to see that
Press, Users, - the world - get the right message - i already explained in
detail why it is good that a community driven feature should advertised [1]

Clarification and truth have nothing to do with harming - it is about enlighten
them and evangelize them to spread it right. We talk about FOSS Software here
and it seems Paul clarified things already to the author.

cu Joerg

[1] http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/marketing/2010-April/012472.html

--
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jsimon@fedoraproject.org
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon
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Old 04-20-2010, 07:17 PM
Nelson Marques
 
Default In the news: Zarafa

I see much much stuff around Zarafa and miss to see great pieces of FOSS
engineering like Nouveau, ATI drivers (no longer experimental?), Mesa
7.8.

Are we providing free ammunition to the people and failing into
highlight real FOSS featured software?



On Tue, 2010-04-20 at 21:01 +0200, Joerg Simon wrote:
> Hi Jan,
>
> Am Dienstag, 20. April 2010 19:47:22 schrieb Jan Wildeboer:
> > Now I am not in the "told you so" department, but it unfolds as I expected.
> > Not much we can do now without harming either Fedora or Zarafa.
>
> Harm? This sounds dramatized. Fedora is in the press with zarafa as a feature
> - and we disussed pro and contra already a lot.
>
> It is easy to oppose and disagree on new contributions - i know that it is
> part of your job at Red Hat to be a "pain" to non-FOSS Vendors - but Fedora
> is about enable and encourage people to contribute and i want to see that
> Press, Users, - the world - get the right message - i already explained in
> detail why it is good that a community driven feature should advertised [1]
>
> Clarification and truth have nothing to do with harming - it is about enlighten
> them and evangelize them to spread it right. We talk about FOSS Software here
> and it seems Paul clarified things already to the author.
>
> cu Joerg
>
> [1] http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/marketing/2010-April/012472.html
>
> --
> marketing mailing list
> marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing


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Old 04-20-2010, 07:19 PM
Nelson Marques
 
Default In the news: Zarafa

I do love how the journalist starts the article on
itmanagement.earthweb.com.

Nelson Marques
http://redwing.hutman.net/~mreed/warriorshtm/evilclown.htm

On Tue, 2010-04-20 at 09:04 -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
> So, Zarafa is getting a lot of press attention:
>
> http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=6298
>
> some of it is fairly unflattering:
>
> http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.php/3877446/Fedora-13-Beta-The-Seen-and-Troubling-Unseen.htm
>
> I'm a bit uncomfortable with this myself; the availability of Zarafa in
> Fedora seems to be being read in ways in which we certainly didn't
> intend it (as an aspect of commercialization, as some kind of Red
> Hat-parachuted feature and hence an indication of RH's future
> directions, etc).
>
> I'm wondering if perhaps we should pull Zarafa's mention as a 'feature'
> of Fedora 13, or if not that, then certainly develop a more coherent
> story about its inclusion, what it's for, why it's in Fedora, and the
> whole 'open core' angle on it...
>
> What do people think?
> --
> Adam Williamson
> Fedora QA Community Monkey
> IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org
> http://www.happyassassin.net
>


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Old 04-20-2010, 07:29 PM
David Nalley
 
Default In the news: Zarafa

On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 12:04 PM, Adam Williamson <awilliam@redhat.com> wrote:
> So, Zarafa is getting a lot of press attention:
>
> http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=6298
>
> some of it is fairly unflattering:
>
> http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.php/3877446/Fedora-13-Beta-The-Seen-and-Troubling-Unseen.htm
>
> I'm a bit uncomfortable with this myself; the availability of Zarafa in
> Fedora seems to be being read in ways in which we certainly didn't
> intend it (as an aspect of commercialization, as some kind of Red
> Hat-parachuted feature and hence an indication of RH's future
> directions, etc).
>
> I'm wondering if perhaps we should pull Zarafa's mention as a 'feature'
> of Fedora 13, or if not that, then certainly develop a more coherent
> story about its inclusion, what it's for, why it's in Fedora, and the
> whole 'open core' angle on it...
>
> What do people think?
> --
> Adam Williamson
> Fedora QA Community Monkey
> IRC: adamw | Fedora Talk: adamwill AT fedoraproject DOT org
> http://www.happyassassin.net
>
> --
> marketing mailing list
> marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing
>

First, I don't think we can pull it at this point (Streisand effect and all).
Second, this (Zarafa's inclusion in Fedora) is a wonderful success
story that I think we should use the opportunity to highlight that a
community member (or two) worked to get this feature in the
distribution. Even if we have to tell that story as a correction -
it's still a powerful one, IMO.
--
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Old 04-20-2010, 07:41 PM
"Paul W. Frields"
 
Default In the news: Zarafa

On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 09:04:28AM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
> So, Zarafa is getting a lot of press attention:
>
> http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=6298
>
> some of it is fairly unflattering:
>
> http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.php/3877446/Fedora-13-Beta-The-Seen-and-Troubling-Unseen.htm
>
> I'm a bit uncomfortable with this myself; the availability of Zarafa in
> Fedora seems to be being read in ways in which we certainly didn't
> intend it (as an aspect of commercialization, as some kind of Red
> Hat-parachuted feature and hence an indication of RH's future
> directions, etc).
>
> I'm wondering if perhaps we should pull Zarafa's mention as a 'feature'
> of Fedora 13, or if not that, then certainly develop a more coherent
> story about its inclusion, what it's for, why it's in Fedora, and the
> whole 'open core' angle on it...
>
> What do people think?

As some others noted, I think pulling the feature is unwarranted. At
least part of the compelling story around Zarafa is that it's included
because a volunteer took advantage of our open, community process to
get a cool piece of software into the distribution. This happens
quite a lot, and deja-dup is another good example. But that story
wasn't clear in the talking point, so I've corrected it for future
reporters who only read the talking point.

Comparing Deja-Dup and Zarafa in Fedora to something like Ubuntu's
Ubuntu One music store is comparing apples to oranges. The Fedora
Project has no commercial agreements with these companies and receives
no money for them. They're provided because volunteers decided they
brought worthwhile solutions to users with 100% FOSS.

Also, I've dropped a comment at the article site, pushed a change to
the BFO FAQ indicating clearly that BFO is not part of Anaconda
itself. That was the only location I could find that looked
potentially unclear.



--
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gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
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Old 04-20-2010, 07:43 PM
Greg DeKoenigsberg
 
Default In the news: Zarafa

On Tue, 20 Apr 2010, David Nalley wrote:

> On Tue, Apr 20, 2010 at 12:04 PM, Adam Williamson <awilliam@redhat.com> wrote:
>> So, Zarafa is getting a lot of press attention:
>>
>> http://blogs.zdnet.com/open-source/?p=6298
>>
>> some of it is fairly unflattering:
>>
>> http://itmanagement.earthweb.com/osrc/article.php/3877446/Fedora-13-Beta-The-Seen-and-Troubling-Unseen.htm
>>
>> I'm a bit uncomfortable with this myself; the availability of Zarafa in
>> Fedora seems to be being read in ways in which we certainly didn't
>> intend it (as an aspect of commercialization, as some kind of Red
>> Hat-parachuted feature and hence an indication of RH's future
>> directions, etc).
>>
>> I'm wondering if perhaps we should pull Zarafa's mention as a 'feature'
>> of Fedora 13, or if not that, then certainly develop a more coherent
>> story about its inclusion, what it's for, why it's in Fedora, and the
>> whole 'open core' angle on it...
>>
>> What do people think?
>
> First, I don't think we can pull it at this point (Streisand effect and
> all). Second, this (Zarafa's inclusion in Fedora) is a wonderful success
> story that I think we should use the opportunity to highlight that a
> community member (or two) worked to get this feature in the
> distribution. Even if we have to tell that story as a correction - it's
> still a powerful one, IMO. -- marketing mailing list
> marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/marketing

ZAFARA: THREAT OR MENACE?



As an editor of a publication myself, I know the power of an interesting
title. If Bruce wants to allege that some of these changes are
"troubling", that's his right -- but let's not draw any more attention
than is due here. Of the four commenters, three of them are us.

I think our defense is strong enough. I'd say let things ride.

--g

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Old 04-20-2010, 07:43 PM
"Jan Wildeboer"
 
Default In the news: Zarafa

As long as it doesn't becom Fedora investing time and ressources on
correcting and defending openCore companies, fine with me.

I still would advice Zarafa to call the opensource version different. Makes
all of our lives easier. But that is mid-term and up to Zarafa. Short term
we should try to set it right where needed by commenting and talking to
authors of articles.

But we should focus more on the true goodies of Fedora. Zarafa is - as you
said - only one of them.

Jan

----- Original Message -----
From: marketing-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org
<marketing-bounces@lists.fedoraproject.org>
To: For discussions about marketing and expanding the Fedora user base
<marketing@lists.fedoraproject.org>
Sent: Tue Apr 20 15:01:34 2010
Subject: Re: In the news: Zarafa

Hi Jan,

Am Dienstag, 20. April 2010 19:47:22 schrieb Jan Wildeboer:
> Now I am not in the "told you so" department, but it unfolds as I
> expected.
> Not much we can do now without harming either Fedora or Zarafa.

Harm? This sounds dramatized. Fedora is in the press with zarafa as a
feature
- and we disussed pro and contra already a lot.

It is easy to oppose and disagree on new contributions - i know that it is
part of your job at Red Hat to be a "pain" to non-FOSS Vendors - but
Fedora
is about enable and encourage people to contribute and i want to see that
Press, Users, - the world - get the right message - i already explained in
detail why it is good that a community driven feature should advertised [1]

Clarification and truth have nothing to do with harming - it is about
enlighten
them and evangelize them to spread it right. We talk about FOSS Software
here
and it seems Paul clarified things already to the author.

cu Joerg

[1]
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/marketing/2010-April/012472.html

--
Joerg (kital) Simon
jsimon@fedoraproject.org
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/JoergSimon
http://kitall.blogspot.com
Key Fingerprint:
3691 0989 2DCA 58A2 8D1F 2CAC C823 558E 5B5B 5688
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