+1 we have real work to do.
On Sun, 2010-03-28 at 13:44 -0700, Robyn Bergeron wrote:
> Comments inline -
> On Sun, Mar 28, 2010 at 12:48 PM, Nelson Marques <firstname.lastname@example.org> wrote:
> > On Sun, 2010-03-28 at 21:19 +0200, wonderer wrote:
> >> Hy Nelson,
> >> > meeting to introduce and discuss some topics:
> >> >
> >> > * Cultural aspects in Communication - it's importance, as Fedora aims
> >> > to an International Community.
> >> > * Consider what we shouldn't associate with Fedora.
> >> > * Symbology and Brand Association
> >> > * Restriction policy towards potential "harmful" symbology
> >> >
> >> I see your point regarding the mailings you posted also across the
> >> ambassadors list. But (me personally) also I think there is at THIS
> >> point in time more important work to do regarding upcoming F13 release
> >> (feature freeze is already on the move), the marketing tasks already on
> >> the move and upcoming marketing tasks. We should have such things in
> >> mind if it comes to new slogans and icons and stuff like that, but also
> >> know that there are also a Red Hat legal Department which will have a
> >> look at our work as far as I know and if there would be a potentional
> >> harm there would be persons who let us know about it. Also there are
> >> many blogposts, irc discussions, etc. around and if something with bad
> >> influence came up it had popped up already.
> >> Also I think words like "restriction policy" is here totally wrong.
> >> Maybe one tiny section in the upcoming kind of brandbook or Design
> >> Guideline should be enough
> >> > Give me 2 weeks to get prepared, set a document and gather some
> >> > scientific marketing production to backup this subject and present it.
> >> > If possible I would like to go remote on voice aswell for this.
> >> >
> >> I think we ALWAYS could find something that can be uses "against" some
> >> freedom ideas, symbols, etc. Somebody can say that the "f" look like a
> >> hook and associate it with "we hook you up" or "I plow with that hook to
> >> your nose" or something more surreal ;-)
> >> I'm looking forward to read about your thesis and I know what you mean,
> >> but also I think that we are so far really good with "our" symbolism.
> >> But thats only my 2Cents
> > I'm not dumping a thesis neither I will take much time, 20 minutes
> > should be enough. All I want to do is to show how symbology, cultures
> > and sub-cultures (in the field of Anthropology) are important for our
> > work. By ignoring those we are providing free ammunition to be used
> > against ourselfs. In a real corporate world, companies like Coca Cola,
> > Nike, Citroen and others have already loss loads of money and hurt their
> > brands because of small/tiny things like this
> 20 minutes is not enough to cover what you have listed. We have major
> issues in marketing meetings currently (IMO) just trying to stick to
> agendas and topics without losing time, and we can barely get through
> agenda items in one hour. You're essentially proposing that we cover
> four major discussion topics at 5 minutes apiece, and I'm afraid that
> is just unrealistic, given the curiosity levels of our group (which is
> a good thing, btw). The topics are important enough that they should
> be allocated an appropriate amount of time; however, in terms of
> prioritization, the deliverables that we are currently committed to as
> far as the F13 release are just, quite simply, higher priority. These
> are items we have essentially signed our names to as far as on-time
> delivery - it is a matter of our own reputations within the community
> to get them out the door as agreed.
> If you want to have a meeting on a schedule that is not the standard
> marketing meeting time, put it on your blog and email to mktg and
> ambassadors, then that is certainly permitted. I would suggest taking
> a look at the meeting schedule for the #fedora-meeting rooms at
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Communicate/FedoraMeetingChannel and
> pick a time that won't be a conflict for most people. Right now, we
> -need- the scheduled marketing meeting for tracking and/or sprinting
> on deliverables right now.
> > It is something we can try to achieve. I'm going to place it in the
> > Agenda, still today and prepare a small presentation for everyone who
> > wants to read it based on some practical examples I am aware off. Then
> > if people find it is relevant, good, else, I rest my case and will
> > release a document for those who want to read it.
> > By the way, this is not an issue in the field of Legal Departments, they
> > are not trained in cultural movements/sub-cultures/symbology. This is
> > mainly a part of Anthropology, which alongside with some other behavior
> > sciences are a part of Marketing.
> > And please that "f" example (which I've always associated with inFinity)
> > is something rather different. No one was ever arrested and prosecuted
> > for such, which people have been arrested and prosecuted in Europe due
> > to using the "Hands Horns" gesture, to be precise, 5 people in Italy
> > during a Vatican event. So I think this gives a new insight about
> > things, considering that 1.1 billion people might feel offended by such
> > symbology, which is apparent un-harmfull for US citizens. That sign
> > excepting Northern America is deeply related to religion in all the
> > places, dodging such topics would be great for us, right ? Not to enter
> > the cultural/sub-cultural movements that I referred previously on the
> > ambassadors list.
> > I'm just trying to help, nothing more, nothing less. And since Red Hat
> > owns the Fedora brand, I do think they should send a representative to
> > check out if this issues are worth looking or not. I'm pretty sure they
> > will agree with some things.
> I'm not sure I speak for marketing, ambassadors, or really, anyone
> else in the Fedora community - but I, personally, am not down with the
> idea of "calling in the Red Hat Referee to see who they agree with."
> We have a Board for this purpose, with a mix of people employed and
> not employed by Red Hat. We are a community; what we prioritize as a
> community should be agreed upon by the -community-, not by our
> sponsor. (But I'd like to take a moment and say: Thank you, Daddy
> Shadowman, for allowing us the freedom to be Fedora!)
> > nelson
> >> mit freundlichen Grüßen / best regards
> >> Henrik Heigl - email@example.com
> >> PGP/GnuPG: 8237 D432 0616 D567 DBC6 3FE3 0D52 B374 F468 A5F0
> > --
> > Nelson Marques <firstname.lastname@example.org>
> > --
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