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Old 12-16-2009, 01:03 PM
Kara Schiltz
 
Default Review: 3 top Linux distros go for different users

Computerworld
12.16.09

Review: 3 top Linux distros go for different users
By Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols

[clip]

Paul Frields, Red Hat's Fedora Project Leader, described Fedora to me as
being "first and foremost for users interested in and capable of
contributing to open source." So if you're a Linux power user, you're
going to love Fedora. If you're not, this probably isn't the distro for
you.


It's not that Fedora is hard to use. While it's not as beginner-friendly
as Ubuntu, most Linux users shouldn't have any trouble working with
Fedora even if they're not developers.


[clip]

For all of its many excellent features, Fedora isn't the best
distribution for new or business users. But if you're a user like me who
already lives his computing life on Linux, it's a great choice.


Full post:
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9142148/Review_3_top_Linux_distros_go_for_different_users? taxonomyId=18&pageNumber=1



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Old 12-16-2009, 02:49 PM
"Paul W. Frields"
 
Default Review: 3 top Linux distros go for different users

On Wed, Dec 16, 2009 at 09:03:41AM -0500, Kara Schiltz wrote:
> Computerworld
> 12.16.09
>
> Review: 3 top Linux distros go for different users
> By Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols
>
> [clip]
>
> Paul Frields, Red Hat's Fedora Project Leader, described Fedora to
> me as being "first and foremost for users interested in and capable
> of contributing to open source." So if you're a Linux power user,
> you're going to love Fedora. If you're not, this probably isn't the
> distro for you.

Hm, that's an interesting takeaway from my quote. Aren't non-power
users capable of contributing to FOSS? Aren't non-power users
interested in contributing too? I'll endeavor to make that
distinction clearer in future interviews -- I usually do so but
apparently it wasn't clear in this one. :-)

> It's not that Fedora is hard to use. While it's not as
> beginner-friendly as Ubuntu, most Linux users shouldn't have any
> trouble working with Fedora even if they're not developers.

Well, that's nice to hear in any case! Does it partially contradict
the assertions above though?

> [clip]
>
> For all of its many excellent features, Fedora isn't the best
> distribution for new or business users. But if you're a user like me
> who already lives his computing life on Linux, it's a great choice.
>
> Full post:
> http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9142148/Review_3_top_Linux_distros_go_for_different_users? taxonomyId=18&pageNumber=1

There are a couple of puzzlers in this article, such as the
implication that being able to find lesser-known utilities makes a
distribution more suitable for the masses. I would argue that the
masses don't care about such things. What's most important is a
working set of well-integrated functionality that behaves consistently
and predictably. The ability to fine tune that later is certainly
great, but the average user isn't interested in spending time finding
and learning new, off-the-beaten-path utilities.

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irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug

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Old 12-16-2009, 03:01 PM
Nicu Buculei
 
Default Review: 3 top Linux distros go for different users

On 12/16/2009 05:49 PM, Paul W. Frields wrote:

Review: 3 top Linux distros go for different users
By Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols

[clip]

Paul Frields, Red Hat's Fedora Project Leader, described Fedora to
me as being "first and foremost for users interested in and capable
of contributing to open source." So if you're a Linux power user,
you're going to love Fedora. If you're not, this probably isn't the
distro for you.



It's not that Fedora is hard to use. While it's not as
beginner-friendly as Ubuntu, most Linux users shouldn't have any
trouble working with Fedora even if they're not developers.


Well, that's nice to hear in any case! Does it partially contradict
the assertions above though?


No, I think his idea is something like: if you are a Linux user, you
will find Fedora familiar, if you are a Linux *power* user, you will
*love* it.



There are a couple of puzzlers in this article, such as the
implication that being able to find lesser-known utilities makes a
distribution more suitable for the masses. I would argue that the
masses don't care about such things. What's most important is a
working set of well-integrated functionality that behaves consistently
and predictably. The ability to fine tune that later is certainly
great, but the average user isn't interested in spending time finding
and learning new, off-the-beaten-path utilities.


Trying to decipher, I think the meaning here is: an user who know little
stuff and want to learn as little as possible, will do a Google search,
end on some forum, copy/paste a few commands he does not understand and
bang! everything is working.

I am not sure we want to paint such image about ourselves.

--
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Old 12-16-2009, 03:14 PM
Máirín Duffy
 
Default Review: 3 top Linux distros go for different users

On Wed, 2009-12-16 at 09:03 -0500, Kara Schiltz wrote:
> Computerworld
> 12.16.09
>
> Review: 3 top Linux distros go for different users
> By Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols
>
> [clip]
>
> Paul Frields, Red Hat's Fedora Project Leader, described Fedora to me as
> being "first and foremost for users interested in and capable of
> contributing to open source." So if you're a Linux power user, you're
> going to love Fedora. If you're not, this probably isn't the distro for
> you.

Whoah that's a leap in logic.

~m

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Old 01-04-2010, 05:42 AM
Robyn Bergeron
 
Default Review: 3 top Linux distros go for different users

A few "first blush" thoughts, I'll think more on this though:

1) Tiemann's idea on setting preferences to treat "linux" as "fedora"
is interesting. One problem I can see with that is that if the
browser with the preferences is, say, not yet installed because the
user is going through some process similar to what he's went through
below, and they happen to be a first-time user or this is (or going to
be) their only Fedora machine, then they're defaulting to going and
using google on their "other" machine, which isn't going to have those
preferences anyhow.

2) Unless we make the distinction -VERY VERY- clear when people are
installing that we are going to be slightly altering their google
results via some set preference, I could see a lot of community uproar
over this, particularly from developers who are developing / testing
on multiple platforms, who don't necessarily want to have fedora-tuned
results.

3) All that said - rather than changing preferences, doing something
like a Fedora toolbar that is a plug-in to the browser might be a
better idea. We could probably include a google search box that would
tune search results, links to community "stuff" like mailing lists and
documentation, etc. (And Fedora Insight!) We could recommend that
people install it (a) when they're installing the Fedora OS, and/or
(b) when they're downloading it, quite possibly from a machine that is
-not- the machine they will be installing it on, and would be the
machine they would be consulting in the very unlikely situation that
they do not have a flawless installation. ie: "Installing Fedora?
We don't anticipate that you'll need our help. But if you do, this
toolbar has the magic."

4) SEO -never- hurts.

On Sun, Jan 3, 2010 at 10:41 PM, Mel Chua <mel@redhat.com> wrote:
> Forwarded with Michael Tiemann's permission. The short version: should we
> look into (1) figuring out an optional (opt-in, I'd suggest) tweak to get
> Fedora-specific search results when looking for Linux howtos, and/or (2) SEO
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_engine_optimization) at some point?
>
> --Mel
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: Review: 3 top Linux distros go for different users
> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 09:13:05 -0500
> From: Michael Tiemann <tiemann@redhat.com>
>
> Kara Schiltz wrote:
>>
>> Computerworld
>> 12.16.09
>>
>> Review: 3 top Linux distros go for different users
>> By Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols
>>
>> [clip]
>>
>> Paul Frields, Red Hat's Fedora Project Leader, described Fedora to me
>> as being "first and foremost for users interested in and capable of
>> contributing to open source." So if you're a Linux power user, you're
>> going to love Fedora. If you're not, this probably isn't the distro
>> for you.
>
> I just installed Fedora 12 (DVD iso x86_64) this past weekend on a very
> hostile piece of hardware: an old MacBookPro version 2,1. *By hostile I
> mean that it's now old enough to reject the installation of modern
> versions of Mac OSX. *The installation process went perfectly smoothly
> until it was time to reboot, and that failed because the MBR and/or the
> GPT has a "bootable" flag that needed to be reset. *I reset the flag,
> and then grub failed. *Some googling led me to question whether my ext4
> boot partition was really a proper choice, and when I backed up /boot to
> some temp space in my rescued filesystem image, reformatted /boot as
> ext2, and restored the contents, everything worked perfectly
> thereafter. *WIN!
>
> What does this have to do with Ubuntu, the implied distro for non-power
> users, you might ask?
>
> I have yet to find a way to search via Google for answers to my Fedora
> problems without Ubuntu being a prominent, if not nearly exclusive
> search result. *Well, that's not quite true...by adding +fedora -ubuntu
> I start to get the kinds of results I'm looking for, but by golly for
> all that Google is supposed to be my Big Brother, it keeps trying to
> lead me away from Fedora and over to Ubuntu.
>
> If there were some way to make technical support help focus on the OS
> installed on one's machine, I think we'd find at least a level playing
> field. *Any way we could set up Mozilla preferences (and other browsers) to
> treat "Linux" like Fedora?
>
> M
>
> --
> GPG Key: F0AD 3368 D24A 56CD A2AD *6A12 CAB3 2E89 EA0A C0E4
>
> The structure of world peace cannot be the work of one man, or one
> party, or one nation...it must be a peace which rests on the cooperative
> effort of the whole world. -- Franklin Delano Roosevelt
>
> Part of the tragedy is of the artist is that there is no real goal in
> achieving what you are naturally good at. The real satisfaction lies in
> the things you accomplish by practice and effort.
> *-- Joris van den Berg, commenting on the death of H. Cartier Bresson
>
> Dream so big you can share -- me
>
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Old 01-30-2010, 01:33 AM
inode0
 
Default Review: 3 top Linux distros go for different users

On Sun, Jan 3, 2010 at 11:41 PM, Mel Chua <mel@redhat.com> wrote:
> Forwarded with Michael Tiemann's permission. The short version: should we
> look into (1) figuring out an optional (opt-in, I'd suggest) tweak to get
> Fedora-specific search results when looking for Linux howtos, and/or (2) SEO
> (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Search_engine_optimization) at some point?
>
> --Mel
>
> -------- Original Message --------
> Subject: Re: Review: 3 top Linux distros go for different users
> Date: Wed, 16 Dec 2009 09:13:05 -0500
> From: Michael Tiemann <tiemann@redhat.com>
>
> Kara Schiltz wrote:
>>
>> Computerworld
>> 12.16.09
>>
>> Review: 3 top Linux distros go for different users
>> By Steven J. Vaughan-Nichols
>>
>> [clip]
>>
>> Paul Frields, Red Hat's Fedora Project Leader, described Fedora to me
>> as being "first and foremost for users interested in and capable of
>> contributing to open source." So if you're a Linux power user, you're
>> going to love Fedora. If you're not, this probably isn't the distro
>> for you.
>
> I just installed Fedora 12 (DVD iso x86_64) this past weekend on a very
> hostile piece of hardware: an old MacBookPro version 2,1. *By hostile I
> mean that it's now old enough to reject the installation of modern
> versions of Mac OSX. *The installation process went perfectly smoothly
> until it was time to reboot, and that failed because the MBR and/or the
> GPT has a "bootable" flag that needed to be reset. *I reset the flag,
> and then grub failed. *Some googling led me to question whether my ext4
> boot partition was really a proper choice, and when I backed up /boot to
> some temp space in my rescued filesystem image, reformatted /boot as
> ext2, and restored the contents, everything worked perfectly
> thereafter. *WIN!
>
> What does this have to do with Ubuntu, the implied distro for non-power
> users, you might ask?
>
> I have yet to find a way to search via Google for answers to my Fedora
> problems without Ubuntu being a prominent, if not nearly exclusive
> search result. *Well, that's not quite true...by adding +fedora -ubuntu
> I start to get the kinds of results I'm looking for, but by golly for
> all that Google is supposed to be my Big Brother, it keeps trying to
> lead me away from Fedora and over to Ubuntu.
>
> If there were some way to make technical support help focus on the OS
> installed on one's machine, I think we'd find at least a level playing
> field. *Any way we could set up Mozilla preferences (and other browsers) to
> treat "Linux" like Fedora?

I've been meaning to reply to this for a while and was reminded again
tonight when reading

http://poelcat.wordpress.com/2010/01/29/gnome-desktop-full-of-files-directories/

As a Fedora user I occasionally encounter some problem, usually fairly
obscure. I search and occasionally find a solution embedded in some
similar problem encountered by someone using Ubuntu or another
distribution. I can see how from a marketing perspective it might be
nice if I found a solution to my problem on a Fedora related link but
the truth is that as a user I really don't care. I have a problem I
want solved, I really just want the fastest access to the solution so
I can move on. And I write it off as those other guys have so many
people having problems it is just natural that I'd find the resolution
on one of their links.

Without knowing whether the solution actually did exist on a Fedora
link I would be very much against changing the search behavior that we
have now. I like finding answers more than seeing Fedora related links
especially in the negative context of having problems.

On the plus side have you ever checked the number of Google matches
for the following?

I hate Ubuntu - about 6,420,000
I hate Fedora - about 364,000

Maybe the fact that we can't find problems on Fedora links isn't
really such a bad thing.

John
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