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Old 01-02-2008, 02:23 PM
Greg DeKoenigsberg
 
Default dormant bugs and our perception

On Mon, 31 Dec 2007, Jon Stanley wrote:


I was triaging old bugs in the FC6 kernel, and got this back form a
reporter. While I agree that a lack of response can be frustrating
to a reporter, I'm not entirely sure what (if anything) we can do
about it.- I'm sending this to marketing-list since it seems to be a
problem for us rather than QA - though probably both, and I'm sure
alot of us are on both.


Handling this exact kind of problem is why bug triagers are worth their
weight in gold.


Because here's the thing: people don't expect all of their bugs to be
magically fixed. (Well, some do, but it doesn't make good business sense
or good community sense to cater to unreasonable people.)


What they *do* expect is for someone to say, "gee, thanks for posting this
bug, we'll set the priority accordingly and maybe poke a developer." And
we fail pretty miserably at that.


Cross-posting to the Fedora advisory board list. Our inability to create
and nurture a bug triage community continues to be painful, and our
current QA resources within Red Hat continue to be (necessarily)
technically focused rather than community focused. This is a problem we
need to solve.


--g

--
Greg DeKoenigsberg
Community Development Manager
Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255
"To whomsoever much hath been given...
...from him much shall be asked"

--
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Fedora-marketing-list@redhat.com
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Old 01-02-2008, 02:47 PM
Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay
 
Default dormant bugs and our perception

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:

> Cross-posting to the Fedora advisory board list. Our inability to
> create and nurture a bug triage community continues to be painful, and
> our current QA resources within Red Hat continue to be (necessarily)
> technically focused rather than community focused. This is a problem we
> need to solve.

A QA/BugTriage community or lack thereof is a situation for a large
number of FOSS Projects. Which is kind of strange since it provides a
relatively practical means to learn about the internals as well as earn
developer respect. Perhaps projects along the line of GHOP (not that
specifically, but like that) which allow putting such building blocks of
knowledge as means to contribute would help. Presentations/workshops
specifically don't - Rahul / mether has been doing them on and off but
without much uptake

~sankarshan



- --

http://www.gutenberg.net - Fine literature digitally re-published
http://www.plos.org - Public Library of Science
http://www.creativecommons.org - Flexible copyright for creative work


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Old 01-02-2008, 02:56 PM
Tim Burke
 
Default dormant bugs and our perception

Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay wrote:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:



Cross-posting to the Fedora advisory board list. Our inability to
create and nurture a bug triage community continues to be painful, and
our current QA resources within Red Hat continue to be (necessarily)
technically focused rather than community focused. This is a problem we
need to solve.



A QA/BugTriage community or lack thereof is a situation for a large
number of FOSS Projects. Which is kind of strange since it provides a
relatively practical means to learn about the internals as well as earn
developer respect. Perhaps projects along the line of GHOP (not that
specifically, but like that) which allow putting such building blocks of
knowledge as means to contribute would help. Presentations/workshops
specifically don't - Rahul / mether has been doing them on and off but
without much uptake


Is some form of reward or point-based recognition likely to have much
impact?


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Old 01-02-2008, 03:00 PM
inode0
 
Default dormant bugs and our perception

On Jan 2, 2008 9:23 AM, Greg DeKoenigsberg <gdk@redhat.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 31 Dec 2007, Jon Stanley wrote:
>
> > I was triaging old bugs in the FC6 kernel, and got this back form a
> > reporter. While I agree that a lack of response can be frustrating
> > to a reporter, I'm not entirely sure what (if anything) we can do
> > about it.- I'm sending this to marketing-list since it seems to be a
> > problem for us rather than QA - though probably both, and I'm sure
> > alot of us are on both.
>
> Handling this exact kind of problem is why bug triagers are worth their
> weight in gold.
>
> Because here's the thing: people don't expect all of their bugs to be
> magically fixed. (Well, some do, but it doesn't make good business sense
> or good community sense to cater to unreasonable people.)
>
> What they *do* expect is for someone to say, "gee, thanks for posting this
> bug, we'll set the priority accordingly and maybe poke a developer." And
> we fail pretty miserably at that.
>
> Cross-posting to the Fedora advisory board list. Our inability to create
> and nurture a bug triage community continues to be painful, and our
> current QA resources within Red Hat continue to be (necessarily)
> technically focused rather than community focused. This is a problem we
> need to solve.

I know ideas are a dime a dozen but here is one idea anyway ...

We've been discussing how universities can take a more active role in
helping students find suitable open source projects to participate in
and ways they can find a fit between their skills and the needs of
open source projects elsewhere.

I think it would be immensely helpful to those of us at universities
who don't have a lot of direct access to students to have one
marketing tool available to us ... an eye-catching poster that we
could scatter around campus ... perhaps containing a short list of
fedora needs that don't require a lot of technical skill and an empty
spot where we might add some mentor contact information for anyone
interested.

John

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Old 01-02-2008, 03:00 PM
inode0
 
Default dormant bugs and our perception

On Jan 2, 2008 9:23 AM, Greg DeKoenigsberg <gdk@redhat.com> wrote:
> On Mon, 31 Dec 2007, Jon Stanley wrote:
>
> > I was triaging old bugs in the FC6 kernel, and got this back form a
> > reporter. While I agree that a lack of response can be frustrating
> > to a reporter, I'm not entirely sure what (if anything) we can do
> > about it.- I'm sending this to marketing-list since it seems to be a
> > problem for us rather than QA - though probably both, and I'm sure
> > alot of us are on both.
>
> Handling this exact kind of problem is why bug triagers are worth their
> weight in gold.
>
> Because here's the thing: people don't expect all of their bugs to be
> magically fixed. (Well, some do, but it doesn't make good business sense
> or good community sense to cater to unreasonable people.)
>
> What they *do* expect is for someone to say, "gee, thanks for posting this
> bug, we'll set the priority accordingly and maybe poke a developer." And
> we fail pretty miserably at that.
>
> Cross-posting to the Fedora advisory board list. Our inability to create
> and nurture a bug triage community continues to be painful, and our
> current QA resources within Red Hat continue to be (necessarily)
> technically focused rather than community focused. This is a problem we
> need to solve.

I know ideas are a dime a dozen but here is one idea anyway ...

We've been discussing how universities can take a more active role in
helping students find suitable open source projects to participate in
and ways they can find a fit between their skills and the needs of
open source projects elsewhere.

I think it would be immensely helpful to those of us at universities
who don't have a lot of direct access to students to have one
marketing tool available to us ... an eye-catching poster that we
could scatter around campus ... perhaps containing a short list of
fedora needs that don't require a lot of technical skill and an empty
spot where we might add some mentor contact information for anyone
interested.

John

--
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Old 01-02-2008, 03:00 PM
seth vidal
 
Default dormant bugs and our perception

On Wed, 2008-01-02 at 10:56 -0500, Tim Burke wrote:
> Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay wrote:
> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
> > Hash: SHA1
> >
> > Greg DeKoenigsberg wrote:
> >
> >
> >> Cross-posting to the Fedora advisory board list. Our inability to
> >> create and nurture a bug triage community continues to be painful, and
> >> our current QA resources within Red Hat continue to be (necessarily)
> >> technically focused rather than community focused. This is a problem we
> >> need to solve.
> >>
> >
> > A QA/BugTriage community or lack thereof is a situation for a large
> > number of FOSS Projects. Which is kind of strange since it provides a
> > relatively practical means to learn about the internals as well as earn
> > developer respect. Perhaps projects along the line of GHOP (not that
> > specifically, but like that) which allow putting such building blocks of
> > knowledge as means to contribute would help. Presentations/workshops
> > specifically don't - Rahul / mether has been doing them on and off but
> > without much uptake
> >
> >
> Is some form of reward or point-based recognition likely to have much
> impact?
>

Can we get enough olpc's to give away as rewards? B/c if so we could
probably get people coming out of the woodwork.

-sv


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Old 01-02-2008, 03:04 PM
Greg DeKoenigsberg
 
Default dormant bugs and our perception

On Wed, 2 Jan 2008, Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay wrote:

A QA/BugTriage community or lack thereof is a situation for a large
number of FOSS Projects. Which is kind of strange since it provides a
relatively practical means to learn about the internals as well as earn
developer respect. Perhaps projects along the line of GHOP (not that
specifically, but like that) which allow putting such building blocks of
knowledge as means to contribute would help. Presentations/workshops
specifically don't - Rahul / mether has been doing them on and off but
without much uptake


Honestly, it's pretty thankless work.

What we need is a leader. Someone who wants to step up and say "we will
have Fedora bug days every Friday (or whatever) from this time to this
time, and I will be in #fedora-qa doing it myself, and teaching everyone
else who wants to learn."


I would do it, but, um, I'm washing my hair on Fridays.

--g

--
Greg DeKoenigsberg
Community Development Manager
Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255
"To whomsoever much hath been given...
...from him much shall be asked"

_______________________________________________
fedora-advisory-board mailing list
fedora-advisory-board@redhat.com
http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-advisory-board
 
Old 01-02-2008, 03:07 PM
Greg DeKoenigsberg
 
Default dormant bugs and our perception

On Wed, 2 Jan 2008, Tim Burke wrote:

Is some form of reward or point-based recognition likely to have much
impact?


Maybe. GNOME certainly tries this, as does Ubuntu. But Ubuntu's triage
situation isn't much better than ours, from what I can tell.


First, though, there needs to be someone who says "I Am The Bugmaster For
Fedora." If the right leader emerges, the rest would probably follow
quite naturally from that, I think.


--g

--
Greg DeKoenigsberg
Community Development Manager
Red Hat, Inc. :: 1-919-754-4255
"To whomsoever much hath been given...
...from him much shall be asked"

_______________________________________________
fedora-advisory-board mailing list
fedora-advisory-board@redhat.com
http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-advisory-board
 
Old 01-02-2008, 03:09 PM
Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay
 
Default dormant bugs and our perception

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

seth vidal wrote:

> Can we get enough olpc's to give away as rewards? B/c if so we could
> probably get people coming out of the woodwork.

The thing I was planning to write

~sankarshan

- --

http://www.gutenberg.net - Fine literature digitally re-published
http://www.plos.org - Public Library of Science
http://www.creativecommons.org - Flexible copyright for creative work


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Old 01-02-2008, 03:09 PM
Jesse Keating
 
Default dormant bugs and our perception

On Wed, 2 Jan 2008 11:04:12 -0500 (EST)
Greg DeKoenigsberg <gdk@redhat.com> wrote:

> Honestly, it's pretty thankless work.
>
> What we need is a leader. Someone who wants to step up and say "we
> will have Fedora bug days every Friday (or whatever) from this time
> to this time, and I will be in #fedora-qa doing it myself, and
> teaching everyone else who wants to learn."
>
> I would do it, but, um, I'm washing my hair on Fridays.


It needs a fulltime person who does nothing but bugzilla. No working
on new tools, no testing the releases, none of those other 4 jobs that
Will is doing. We need a full time bug person to A) triage and B)
coordinate other triaging.

--
Jesse Keating
Fedora -- All my bits are free, are yours?
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