Over the past few weeks, some of us have been diligently working on a
number of projects on the marketing front. As many of you know, and as
many of you have participated, I have over the last two weeks been
talking to many of us, privately, trying to poll the crowd and see what
those amongst us thought were the best areas for improvement and/or
optimization of the marketing team. Based on that feedback, I've
developed this proposal which lays out those key areas, identifies what
can be improved upon and how we can go about doing it. The solution
pretty much encompasses everything, so I'll just present the 3 key
issues and then what I think is the best course forward. Please note, I
am looking to solicit feedback on this, this isnt like a dictatorial
edict or anything, just one man's thoughts.
As it stands right now, Fedora Marketing is very strong. I make that
statement based on the character of all those involved and the quality
of the discussions which we have. There is a perceived weakness
however, which many attribute to lack of communication. The truth is, I
think that any weakness which exists, whether its lack of organization
or the relatively low amount of traffic on the mailing list I attribute
to an inefficient workflow. So I ask myself, and everyone else, maybe
there is alot of room for improvement and a maybe its just a few small
steps we can take that can have us running at max efficiency?
There are 3 main areas in which we can improve:
1. Better organization and workflow - we know what we need to do, just
that often times we don't know when. Also, records and methods of
tracking are sufficient, sub-optimally efficient.
2. Better and clearer delegation of tasks - we know what we need to do,
just that often times, we don't know who is responsible for it. A large
problem with this also is that some people refrain from picking up
certain tasks because they assume it belongs to someone are afraid to
step on toes.
3. Better coordination with other sub projects and project groups - part
of marketings goal relies on 3 other groups, ambassadors, art and docs.
There are ample opportunities for improving communication, coordination
and collaboration with these three teams, to ensure that we get done
what we need to get done and that they get done what they need to get
done which requires input from us.
The proposed solution:
A better, calendar based, workflow! The reality is that our workflow is
cyclical in nature, it is based on a release schedule and we have mostly
the same, or a majority of similar tasks/milestones that need to be done
for each release. If we shift our current workflow and task tracking to
a similar scheme, it may be easier for us to stay on top of things and
operate more efficiently. It also allows us to have clear "due dates"
for each item, and have it clearly marked with an owner. Right off the
bat I see us knocking out two of our major issues. Plus, clarity when
it comes to responsibility and accountability will facilitate better
communications amongst ourselves. Also, I propose that part of this
schedule system includes 2-3 meetings with members of the other relevant
projects, and this way, anything that hinges on us for them, or them on
us, will be clearly defined, we achieve mutual understanding, and can
delegate those tasks to people in Marketing.
So for example, we start out at T-Minus 6 weeks from the alpha, have
everything necessary from that until the alpha on a grid marked with a
task, date, owner. Same for Beta, same for GA. A Good example can be
found at John Poelstra's Schedule Pages found here
http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-11/ .
Also, this should all be kept under
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Schedule with trailing
/releasever and an anchor from that main page to whatever the current
release is.
A little bit of refactoring might do us alot of good, but we all need
each other's feedback and each other's help, as a team and as a community!
What do you guys think?
Jack
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02-19-2009, 01:59 PM
Karsten Wade
Proposal: The New Fedora Marketing
On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 06:18:02PM -0500, Jack Aboutboul wrote:
> Also, this should all be kept under
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Schedule with trailing
> /releasever and an anchor from that main page to whatever the current
> release is.
Just a note that this fakey-nesting is deprecated under our page
naming guidelines.
Natural language page names, e.g. [[Marketing schedule for F10]], are
easier to translate, easier to find via search, and less exclusive.
Fakey-nesting requires each community member to learn the hierarchy,
which are not consistent across Fedora sub-projects.
Since we're restarting the Marketing, we might want to take the chance
to clean-up, rename, and categorize key pages to make them work better
under MediaWiki.
- Karsten
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02-19-2009, 02:35 PM
Jack Aboutboul
Proposal: The New Fedora Marketing
Karsten Wade wrote:
On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 06:18:02PM -0500, Jack Aboutboul wrote:
Also, this should all be kept under
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Schedule with trailing
/releasever and an anchor from that main page to whatever the current
release is.
Just a note that this fakey-nesting is deprecated under our page
naming guidelines.
Natural language page names, e.g. [[Marketing schedule for F10]], are
easier to translate, easier to find via search, and less exclusive.
Fakey-nesting requires each community member to learn the hierarchy,
which are not consistent across Fedora sub-projects.
Since we're restarting the Marketing, we might want to take the chance
to clean-up, rename, and categorize key pages to make them work better
under MediaWiki.
That's great feedback man. Thanks, and I absolutely agree. Are there
any wiki masters amongst us that would be willing to sit and do session
or two cleaning up the wiki. I would help, but I'm definitely not the
best person to take the lead on this one...
Jack
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02-19-2009, 02:51 PM
Karsten Wade
Proposal: The New Fedora Marketing
Sorry, I should have included an overall "+1" to the plan. Makes good
sense, follows known Fedora practices, builds well for the future,
etc. Thus, I had only one note to make about the page naming, quite
trivial in comparison.
On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 06:59:09AM -0800, Karsten Wade wrote:
> On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 06:18:02PM -0500, Jack Aboutboul wrote:
>
> > Also, this should all be kept under
> > https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Schedule with trailing
> > /releasever and an anchor from that main page to whatever the current
> > release is.
>
> Just a note that this fakey-nesting is deprecated under our page
> naming guidelines.
>
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Help:Wiki_structure
>
> Natural language page names, e.g. [[Marketing schedule for F10]], are
> easier to translate, easier to find via search, and less exclusive.
> Fakey-nesting requires each community member to learn the hierarchy,
> which are not consistent across Fedora sub-projects.
>
> Since we're restarting the Marketing, we might want to take the chance
> to clean-up, rename, and categorize key pages to make them work better
> under MediaWiki.
>
> - Karsten
> --
> Karsten 'quaid' Wade, Community Gardener
> http://quaid.fedorapeople.org
> AD0E0C41
> --
> Fedora-marketing-list mailing list
> Fedora-marketing-list@redhat.com
> https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
--
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02-19-2009, 02:56 PM
Sankarshan Mukhopadhyay
Proposal: The New Fedora Marketing
On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 4:48 AM, Jack Aboutboul <jaa@redhat.com> wrote:
[a snip here]
> There are 3 main areas in which we can improve:
>
> 1. Better organization and workflow - we know what we need to do, just that
> often times we don't know when. Also, records and methods of tracking are
> sufficient, sub-optimally efficient.
> 2. Better and clearer delegation of tasks - we know what we need to do, just
> that often times, we don't know who is responsible for it. A large problem
> with this also is that some people refrain from picking up certain tasks
> because they assume it belongs to someone are afraid to step on toes.
> 3. Better coordination with other sub projects and project groups - part of
> marketings goal relies on 3 other groups, ambassadors, art and docs. There
> are ample opportunities for improving communication, coordination and
> collaboration with these three teams, to ensure that we get done what we
> need to get done and that they get done what they need to get done which
> requires input from us.
[another snip here]
A solid plan. Takes learning from the best parts of the project and
re-applies them to a part that required a helmsman.
+1 to world domination !
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02-19-2009, 03:01 PM
Francesco Ugolini
Proposal: The New Fedora Marketing
On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 12:18 AM, Jack Aboutboul <jaa@redhat.com> wrote:
>
> What do you guys think?
>
> Jack
As I just said during the meeting, I totally agree with the points
moved by you: they clearly underline the situation and propose
possible solution to move ahead.
I think Marketing should really focus on these points and should work
together (involving the wider part of the project) on them.
>From the other project collaboration, I can assure that Ambassadors
(and, surely, FAmSCo) will cooperate to achieve the goals.
As it was said by someone during the meeting, we should start working
as soon as it could be possible, in order to not have those great
ideas dispersed.
Regards
Francesco Ugolini
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02-19-2009, 03:03 PM
"Paul W. Frields"
Proposal: The New Fedora Marketing
On Thu, Feb 19, 2009 at 10:35:40AM -0500, Jack Aboutboul wrote:
> Karsten Wade wrote:
>> On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 06:18:02PM -0500, Jack Aboutboul wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Also, this should all be kept under
>>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Schedule with trailing
>>> /releasever and an anchor from that main page to whatever the current
>>> release is.
>>>
>>
>> Just a note that this fakey-nesting is deprecated under our page
>> naming guidelines.
>>
>> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Help:Wiki_structure
>>
>> Natural language page names, e.g. [[Marketing schedule for F10]], are
>> easier to translate, easier to find via search, and less exclusive.
>> Fakey-nesting requires each community member to learn the hierarchy,
>> which are not consistent across Fedora sub-projects.
>>
>> Since we're restarting the Marketing, we might want to take the chance
>> to clean-up, rename, and categorize key pages to make them work better
>> under MediaWiki.
>>
> That's great feedback man. Thanks, and I absolutely agree. Are there
> any wiki masters amongst us that would be willing to sit and do session
> or two cleaning up the wiki. I would help, but I'm definitely not the
> best person to take the lead on this one...
This particular facet of wiki usage is not too difficult, fortunately
-- use English for page names, not slashes.
I just corrected a few pages linked from the [[Marketing]] page; it's
pretty easy to do. Just check "What links here" on the side for a
page you're going to rename, making sure that you correct all the main
namespace ones. I typically don't change links on users' personal
pages or translated pages when I move a page name.
On Wed, Feb 18, 2009 at 06:18:02PM -0500, Jack Aboutboul wrote:
> The proposed solution:
>
> A better, calendar based, workflow! The reality is that our workflow is
> cyclical in nature, it is based on a release schedule and we have mostly
> the same, or a majority of similar tasks/milestones that need to be done
> for each release. If we shift our current workflow and task tracking to
> a similar scheme, it may be easier for us to stay on top of things and
> operate more efficiently. It also allows us to have clear "due dates"
> for each item, and have it clearly marked with an owner. Right off the
> bat I see us knocking out two of our major issues. Plus, clarity when it
> comes to responsibility and accountability will facilitate better
> communications amongst ourselves. Also, I propose that part of this
> schedule system includes 2-3 meetings with members of the other relevant
> projects, and this way, anything that hinges on us for them, or them on
> us, will be clearly defined, we achieve mutual understanding, and can
> delegate those tasks to people in Marketing.
>
> So for example, we start out at T-Minus 6 weeks from the alpha, have
> everything necessary from that until the alpha on a grid marked with a
> task, date, owner. Same for Beta, same for GA. A Good example can be
> found at John Poelstra's Schedule Pages found here
> http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-11/ .
>
> Also, this should all be kept under
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Schedule with trailing
> /releasever and an anchor from that main page to whatever the current
> release is.
+1 to Karsten's suggestion. Make sure we're following the wiki
guidelines for pages so that when someone searches, they get what they
need to participate.
As for the overall solution, IMHO the schedule for release-based tasks
does need to be coordinated with the other teams on the release
calendar, so +1 to that.
I thought this was something the group had more or less agreed at a
previous meeting, but I could be wrong. If we do have consensus, then
we need to see real dates pronto and start dealing with concrete "to
do" items. Maybe set a time limit on discussion of the plan in
today's meeting, and then move on to turning it into action items that
can be assigned and achieved.
On Thu, 2009-02-19 at 11:04 -0500, Paul W. Frields wrote:
> +1 to Karsten's suggestion. Make sure we're following the wiki
> guidelines for pages so that when someone searches, they get what they
> need to participate.
>
> As for the overall solution, IMHO the schedule for release-based tasks
> does need to be coordinated with the other teams on the release
> calendar, so +1 to that.
>
> I thought this was something the group had more or less agreed at a
> previous meeting, but I could be wrong. If we do have consensus, then
> we need to see real dates pronto and start dealing with concrete "to
> do" items. Maybe set a time limit on discussion of the plan in
> today's meeting, and then move on to turning it into action items that
> can be assigned and achieved.
Yes, we agreed on this schedule during the last meeting, for the people
who were there. As a goal for today's meeting I propose to update our
schedule page with all the important milestones and sub-tasks. At least
for the next month or so...
About the wiki cleanup, I also propose to take another meeting to
cleanup most of the page, I frankly think that half of them can be
deleted for good as they are pretty much very outdated and not
maintained. It's useless for us and gives a bad image of the marketing
group in general, don't you think?
Steven
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02-19-2009, 04:16 PM
Steven Moix
Proposal: The New Fedora Marketing
On Wed, 2009-02-18 at 18:18 -0500, Jack Aboutboul wrote:
> Hello All,
>
> Over the past few weeks, some of us have been diligently working on a
> number of projects on the marketing front. As many of you know, and as
> many of you have participated, I have over the last two weeks been
> talking to many of us, privately, trying to poll the crowd and see what
> those amongst us thought were the best areas for improvement and/or
> optimization of the marketing team. Based on that feedback, I've
> developed this proposal which lays out those key areas, identifies what
> can be improved upon and how we can go about doing it. The solution
> pretty much encompasses everything, so I'll just present the 3 key
> issues and then what I think is the best course forward. Please note, I
> am looking to solicit feedback on this, this isnt like a dictatorial
> edict or anything, just one man's thoughts.
>
> As it stands right now, Fedora Marketing is very strong. I make that
> statement based on the character of all those involved and the quality
> of the discussions which we have. There is a perceived weakness
> however, which many attribute to lack of communication. The truth is, I
> think that any weakness which exists, whether its lack of organization
> or the relatively low amount of traffic on the mailing list I attribute
> to an inefficient workflow. So I ask myself, and everyone else, maybe
> there is alot of room for improvement and a maybe its just a few small
> steps we can take that can have us running at max efficiency?
>
> There are 3 main areas in which we can improve:
>
> 1. Better organization and workflow - we know what we need to do, just
> that often times we don't know when. Also, records and methods of
> tracking are sufficient, sub-optimally efficient.
> 2. Better and clearer delegation of tasks - we know what we need to do,
> just that often times, we don't know who is responsible for it. A large
> problem with this also is that some people refrain from picking up
> certain tasks because they assume it belongs to someone are afraid to
> step on toes.
> 3. Better coordination with other sub projects and project groups - part
> of marketings goal relies on 3 other groups, ambassadors, art and docs.
> There are ample opportunities for improving communication, coordination
> and collaboration with these three teams, to ensure that we get done
> what we need to get done and that they get done what they need to get
> done which requires input from us.
>
> The proposed solution:
>
> A better, calendar based, workflow! The reality is that our workflow is
> cyclical in nature, it is based on a release schedule and we have mostly
> the same, or a majority of similar tasks/milestones that need to be done
> for each release. If we shift our current workflow and task tracking to
> a similar scheme, it may be easier for us to stay on top of things and
> operate more efficiently. It also allows us to have clear "due dates"
> for each item, and have it clearly marked with an owner. Right off the
> bat I see us knocking out two of our major issues. Plus, clarity when
> it comes to responsibility and accountability will facilitate better
> communications amongst ourselves. Also, I propose that part of this
> schedule system includes 2-3 meetings with members of the other relevant
> projects, and this way, anything that hinges on us for them, or them on
> us, will be clearly defined, we achieve mutual understanding, and can
> delegate those tasks to people in Marketing.
>
> So for example, we start out at T-Minus 6 weeks from the alpha, have
> everything necessary from that until the alpha on a grid marked with a
> task, date, owner. Same for Beta, same for GA. A Good example can be
> found at John Poelstra's Schedule Pages found here
> http://poelstra.fedorapeople.org/schedules/f-11/ .
>
> Also, this should all be kept under
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Marketing/Schedule with trailing
> /releasever and an anchor from that main page to whatever the current
> release is.
>
> A little bit of refactoring might do us alot of good, but we all need
> each other's feedback and each other's help, as a team and as a community!
>
> What do you guys think?
>
Right now, I could see something like this as a starting structure:
Milestones, based on
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Releases/11/Schedule:
FUDCon:
* Renew the news distribution network people list to always have
motivated people
* Cleanup the wiki from the obsolete marketing cycles
* Cycle the wiki pages to the new release
Alpha Release:
* Assign marketing people to Fedora features/developers for the rest of
the cycle
* Assign marketing people to SIGs for the rest of the cycle
Feature Freeze:
* Update the features page
* Update the talking points
Beta Release:
* Developer interviews on the coming release?
Preview Release (artwork is generally done at this point):
* Update the screenshots page
* Update the Fedora tour page
Final Release:
* Spam the world
* Have a beer
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