FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
» Video Reviews

» Linux Archive

Linux-archive is a website aiming to archive linux email lists and to make them easily accessible for linux users/developers.


» Sponsor

» Partners

» Sponsor

Go Back   Linux Archive > Redhat > Fedora Marketing

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
 
Old 01-03-2009, 03:20 PM
Ian Weller
 
Default Picture Book....

On Sat, Jan 03, 2009 at 08:53:19AM +0100, Max Spevack wrote:
> I (along with the CommArch budget) am happy to help with accounting to
> whatever extent I am needed.
>
Woo! Get your name on the people list.
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Picture_book

--
Ian Weller <ianweller@gmail.com> http://ianweller.org
GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36
"Technology is a word that describes something that doesn't work yet."
~ Douglas Adams
--
Fedora-marketing-list mailing list
Fedora-marketing-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
 
Old 01-03-2009, 10:18 PM
Ian Weller
 
Default Picture Book....

On Sat, Jan 03, 2009 at 07:45:45AM -0800, Doug Berry wrote:
> > I don't see any reason why not. We just want to make
> > sure we know who is holding the money, and how much there
> > ends up being. I think it's a pretty simple &
> > straightforward problem to solve.
>
> If I may jump in on this for a moment. The only way we
> would ever sell or handle any books ourselves, would be
> if we chose to buy them from Lightning Source and sell
> them.
>
> Otherwise all sales would be handled by Lightning Source
> and they would provide us with strict accounting for each
> sale. They are a division of Ingram Book Services, which
> handles half the books in the world and is a multi-billion
> dollar enterprise.
>
> Once the book(s) are in the Ingram database, we can just
> direct any buyers to Amazon, Wal-mart, any book store with
> a computer, and a zillion other on-line vendors.
>
Do we want to set up a website somewhere and point shoppers to
Amazon.com or whatnot? (Gah, I'm thinking way too far ahead again)

> Lightning Source would then send us a royalty check, I
> think it's every three months. We can just have them send
> it to Max and he can disburse any funds.
>
You OK with this, Max? We could just plan for this, and it would make me
feel a lot better if we got this problem out of the way first ^_^


> Also, I have a bunch of documents that Lightning Source
> sent me. They are pretty thorough in breaking down the
> costs and establishing what we can expect from them. I
> tried to send them to some people over the mailing lists
> email, but the file size was to big and it crashed. I also
> sent them to Ian, so if anyone wants a copy, they would
> need to provide him or I with a outside email address.
>
I've placed them here: http://ianweller.fedorapeople.org/lsi-docs/

<braindump type="mine!">

So here's what I'm thinking initially: we publish four books ("Volumes
1-4"), each entitled something like "The Fedora Book: Friends", or
whatever, for each of the four foundations (freedom, friends, features,
first).

Each book would contain about 80 pages. (LSI requires page counts in
multiples of 4; for reference, The Love Book has 96 pages.) If we go
less than 80 pages, we can't put text on the spine (which would
definitely help in identifying the book on a shelf with four or so
different copies of The Fedora Book).

80 pages: (odd pages on right side, even on left)
1. Title page
2. Copyright (CC-BY-SA, right?)/cataloging data
3-4. Introduction by current FPL (if Paul doesn't take up two pages,
make page 3 blank)
5. Introduction of the foundation whose story is being told in this
book, with wonderful Four Foundations livery provided by Mo
6-77. Photos and stories of contributors
78-79. Index of contributors across all books published so far
80. Left blank because LSI told us to (they stick an internal barcode
on here)

I envision the pages being in full color. LSI will print a full color
book, sized 8.5" x 8.5" (whoa, another parallel to The Love Book!) with
80 pages, for $8.20 per unit (book). Setup for the title comes out to
$75 (half for the cover, half for the pages), and to make the book
available to Amazon and the like, we are charged $12/yr for each ISBN.

Add to this cost the necessity of getting a proof for each individual
book. For an 80-page book, this would be $22.20. And, we need ISBNs.
Doug mentioned this would be $275 for a block of 10 ISBNs.

The initial cost, then, is $711.80 for the four books. Setting the
wholesale markup to $15 keeps the price reasonable for both buyers and
us -- we can recoup the cost for all four books with 105 sales.[1] Add
to this an additional $48/yr after the first year -- and remember, this
isn't including any additional books that we may want to produce after
these four. Also, keep in mind that we still have six more ISBNs to do
whatever with. The initial cost for the next six books would be $87 plus
$12 per year after the first year.

[1]: This is overall sales of all the four books, not each one.

(For those who may be wondering where any of this information is, it's
not in the POD manual (USOPSMANUAL080108.pdf), it's in US COLOR PRICE
SHEET 091508.pdf.)

I would like to mention that the proposal Doug emailed to me pertains to
only one book, while this pertains to an initial four.

</braindump>

Questions I have for you guys:
1. Does this sound reasonable? Does it seem viable that we can sell 105
copies in a year? For those who will be in the book, or other Fedora
contributors, or other Fedora fans, the $60 for the first set of four
price seems a bit large. I'm not really sure.
2. On a totally unrelated note, where are we going to stick all of the
photos for this project? We need somewhere where we can also enter
their "story", and where others can upload their photos into a
moderation queue. Flickr is what I see in my mind as being the least
trouble, but it's not open source, and most of the photograhpers
would need a pro account ($30something/yr) to upload many high-res
photos. Oh, and we need a solution by Thursday ^_^

Plus, Paul mentioned someone taking the leadership of this project (as
that would behoove him). Doug mentioned to me that he'd like to see me
defined as the leader, so I'm cool with that, if everybody else is.
(However I'm not sure who needs to register on LSI's website if Max is
the one getting all the moneys.)

I'm quite excited that we're seeing life to this project

--
Ian Weller <ianweller@gmail.com> http://ianweller.org
GnuPG fingerprint: E51E 0517 7A92 70A2 4226 B050 87ED 7C97 EFA8 4A36
"Technology is a word that describes something that doesn't work yet."
~ Douglas Adams
--
Fedora-marketing-list mailing list
Fedora-marketing-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
 
Old 01-05-2009, 04:29 AM
Doug Berry
 
Default Picture Book....

--- On Sat, 1/3/09, Ian Weller <ianweller@gmail.com> wrote:

> Do we want to set up a website somewhere and point shoppers
> to
> Amazon.com or whatnot? (Gah, I'm thinking way too far
> ahead again)

When I mentioned using Wal-mart or Amazon as vendors, that
is of course one way we could go. We will have that
automatically when we register with LSI. But the most profitable
way to go would be to sell any books ourselves. If a vendor
sells the book, they are going to add 15%, that is deducted
out of our profit, not from LSI.

Setting up a web page and taking orders ourselves would mean
we would make the most profit from our book.
...............
> > Lightning Source would then send us a royalty check, I
> > think it's every three months. We can just have
> them send
> > it to Max and he can disburse any funds.
> >
> You OK with this, Max? We could just plan for this, and it
> would make me
> feel a lot better if we got this problem out of the way
> first ^_^

I agree. If Max could handle the money, we would just be
free to create books and not have to worry about money
responsibilities. I think any monies should go to Red Hat
anyway, even if we have to sneak it in a back door.
...............

> Questions I have for you guys:
> 1. Does this sound reasonable? Does it seem viable that we
> can sell 105
> copies in a year? For those who will be in the book, or
> other Fedora
> contributors, or other Fedora fans, the $60 for the
> first set of four
> price seems a bit large. I'm not really sure.

I am not sure what you mean with the four different books.
Is that four books at once, or one at a time? Book sales
are almost impossible to predict. But I think that the first
book will sell. It may well pay for the other four.

One way to gage this: at this upcoming FUDCON, if we are going
to be passing out release forms, maybe we could take a legal
pad or pledge cards and ask people "would you like to pre-order
the book your picture will be in?" If the people whose pictures
and names are going to be in the book, won't commit to buying
it, we might as well quit right now.

Then again, we are not even bound, no pun intended, to producing
a bound book. We could go magazine style: folded pages, stapled
in the middle, the cheapest type of book. We could do any amount
of pages, 20, 40, 80, 160.

I wonder myself, and I think that after the first couple of books,
which we could do bound, sales might drop off even from the
most committed Fedoreans. So maybe anticipating that and going
to a zine would be better in the long run.
..............

> (However I'm not sure who needs to register on
> LSI's website if Max is
> the one getting all the moneys.)

I definitely think it should be Max, or someone Red Hat.
LSI is going to like much better dealing with an established
corporation. All Max or whoever would have to do is go to
the Lightning Source web site, click on the "New Accounts"
button and fill out the form. Once we are registered, they
will assign us a "Guide" who will explain their system.

I think I understand the point that Paul Fields was trying
to make the other day: we are a FREE Software foundation
and we don't want to appear to be morphing into a commercial
book publish phenomenom. But if it seems to be a Red Hat
venture and are just a Beta version of it, well....

-- Douglas Berry --
slasherzee@fedoraproject.com





--
Fedora-marketing-list mailing list
Fedora-marketing-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
 
Old 01-05-2009, 12:16 PM
Max Spevack
 
Default Picture Book....

On Sat, 3 Jan 2009, Ian Weller wrote:

Lightning Source would then send us a royalty check, I think it's
every three months. We can just have them send it to Max and he can
disburse any funds.


You OK with this, Max? We could just plan for this, and it would make
me feel a lot better if we got this problem out of the way first ^_^


I am ok with this, if Lightning Source is what everyone wants to do. I
know nothing about Lightning Source, but I trust the judgement of the
larger group.



3-4. Introduction by current FPL (if Paul doesn't take up two pages,
make page 3 blank)


If there's 4 books, I'd be honored to write an introduction for one of
them as an ex-FPL.



5. Introduction of the foundation whose story is being told in this
book, with wonderful Four Foundations livery provided by Mo
6-77. Photos and stories of contributors
78-79. Index of contributors across all books published so far
80. Left blank because LSI told us to (they stick an internal barcode
on here)

I envision the pages being in full color. LSI will print a full color
book, sized 8.5" x 8.5" (whoa, another parallel to The Love Book!)
with 80 pages, for $8.20 per unit (book). Setup for the title comes
out to $75 (half for the cover, half for the pages), and to make the
book available to Amazon and the like, we are charged $12/yr for each
ISBN.


Sounds like a beautiful project.

The initial cost, then, is $711.80 for the four books. Setting the
wholesale markup to $15 keeps the price reasonable for both buyers and
us -- we can recoup the cost for all four books with 105 sales.[1] Add
to this an additional $48/yr after the first year -- and remember,
this isn't including any additional books that we may want to produce
after these four. Also, keep in mind that we still have six more ISBNs
to do whatever with. The initial cost for the next six books would be
$87 plus $12 per year after the first year.


At this dollar figure, is it better to just produce them and hand them
out as gifts to the community? We're not talking about huge amounts of
money here (comparatively).



1. Does this sound reasonable? Does it seem viable that we can sell 105
copies in a year? For those who will be in the book, or other Fedora
contributors, or other Fedora fans, the $60 for the first set of four
price seems a bit large. I'm not really sure.


I think demand would easily surpass 105.


I'm quite excited that we're seeing life to this project


Definitely. It's a great idea, and a great exercise in collaboration.

--Max

--
Fedora-marketing-list mailing list
Fedora-marketing-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
 
Old 01-05-2009, 12:21 PM
Pierre-Yves
 
Default Picture Book....

Max Spevack wrote:

On Sat, 3 Jan 2009, Ian Weller wrote:

1. Does this sound reasonable? Does it seem viable that we can sell 105
copies in a year? For those who will be in the book, or other Fedora
contributors, or other Fedora fans, the $60 for the first set of four
price seems a bit large. I'm not really sure.


I think demand would easily surpass 105.

Especially the first year/time the book is available

Regards,

Pierre

--
Fedora-marketing-list mailing list
Fedora-marketing-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
 
Old 01-05-2009, 12:37 PM
"Paul W. Frields"
 
Default Picture Book....

On Sun, Jan 04, 2009 at 09:29:18PM -0800, Doug Berry wrote:
> > (However I'm not sure who needs to register on
> > LSI's website if Max is
> > the one getting all the moneys.)
>
> I definitely think it should be Max, or someone Red Hat.
> LSI is going to like much better dealing with an established
> corporation. All Max or whoever would have to do is go to
> the Lightning Source web site, click on the "New Accounts"
> button and fill out the form. Once we are registered, they
> will assign us a "Guide" who will explain their system.
>
> I think I understand the point that Paul Fields was trying
> to make the other day: we are a FREE Software foundation
> and we don't want to appear to be morphing into a commercial
> book publish phenomenom. But if it seems to be a Red Hat
> venture and are just a Beta version of it, well....

It seems to me that Max has got a plan for how to make the finances
work out, whether that's by simply giving these as community gifts or
using any income to fund other Fedora efforts (or simply sustain the
publishing and gift-giving on the side). My only concern was that we
maintain transparency in any financial accounting. I'd love to write
an introduction for these.

--
Paul W. Frields http://paul.frields.org/
gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/
irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug
--
Fedora-marketing-list mailing list
Fedora-marketing-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
 
Old 01-05-2009, 12:42 PM
Doug Berry
 
Default Picture Book....

--- On Mon, 1/5/09, Max Spevack <mspevack@redhat.com> wrote:

> At this dollar figure, is it better to just produce them
> and hand them out as gifts to the community? We're not
> talking about huge amounts of money here (comparatively).

Exactly. Maybe the first bound book as a community give-a-way.
We'd have to eat the cost of that. Then after that we wouldn't
have to do only bound books -- we could create a 40 page picture
magazine; say one for NA; one for EMEA. When you get into
bound matter the cost goes up pretty quick. A zine would
be easier because you don't have as much to deal with like
the gullies and tight margins of a bound book. Just a thought....

-- w Douglas Berry --
slasherzee@fedoraproject.org





--
Fedora-marketing-list mailing list
Fedora-marketing-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
 
Old 01-05-2009, 12:57 PM
"Paul W. Frields"
 
Default Picture Book....

On Mon, Jan 05, 2009 at 05:42:42AM -0800, Doug Berry wrote:
>
> --- On Mon, 1/5/09, Max Spevack <mspevack@redhat.com> wrote:
>
> > At this dollar figure, is it better to just produce them
> > and hand them out as gifts to the community? We're not
> > talking about huge amounts of money here (comparatively).
>
> Exactly. Maybe the first bound book as a community give-a-way.
> We'd have to eat the cost of that. Then after that we wouldn't
> have to do only bound books -- we could create a 40 page picture
> magazine; say one for NA; one for EMEA. When you get into
> bound matter the cost goes up pretty quick. A zine would
> be easier because you don't have as much to deal with like
> the gullies and tight margins of a bound book. Just a thought....

I'd say there's enough demand for more than one copy of a hardbound
book, though. I totally want a set for myself, and I'm sure I'm not
the only one.

--
Paul W. Frields ("Did someone say, 'auction'?")
gpg fingerprint: 3DA6 A0AC 6D58 FEC4 0233 5906 ACDB C937 BD11 3717
http://redhat.com/ - - - - http://pfrields.fedorapeople.org/
irc.freenode.net: stickster @ #fedora-docs, #fedora-devel, #fredlug
--
Fedora-marketing-list mailing list
Fedora-marketing-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
 
Old 01-05-2009, 01:02 PM
Doug Berry
 
Default Picture Book....

--- On Mon, 1/5/09, Paul W. Frields <stickster@gmail.com> wrote:

> It seems to me that Max has got a plan for how to make the
> finances
> work out, whether that's by simply giving these as
> community gifts or
> using any income to fund other Fedora efforts (or simply
> sustain the
> publishing and gift-giving on the side). My only concern
> was that we
> maintain transparency in any financial accounting. I'd
> love to write
> an introduction for these.

Way cool!
If we do this right and keep our books affordable so more
people can afford to buy them, we should pay our way and
make a few bucks. Once we do a couple of books, we can
gage interest and be able to adjust our costs and prices
accordingly.

One thing though. After FUDCON, when the pics start rolling
in, we are going to be using Open Source Software to
create the actual books. Most probably Scribus, Open Office,
The Gimp, and ?. Maybe we could approach some of these
projects and set-up an agreeable time for the most people,
then have someone from these projects give us a IRC Fedora
Classroom session on How-to use their stuff to create a
book.

-- w Douglas Berry --
slasherzee@fedoraproject.org





--
Fedora-marketing-list mailing list
Fedora-marketing-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
 
Old 01-05-2009, 01:09 PM
Nicu Buculei
 
Default Picture Book....

Doug Berry wrote:


One thing though. After FUDCON, when the pics start rolling
in, we are going to be using Open Source Software to
create the actual books. Most probably Scribus, Open Office,

The Gimp, and ?. Maybe we could approach some of these
projects and set-up an agreeable time for the most people,
then have someone from these projects give us a IRC Fedora

Classroom session on How-to use their stuff to create a
book.


I think we may have enough in-house experience for the task, so maybe
the class room can be held by Fedora "subject matter experts".


--
nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com
Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/
Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org
my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro

--
Fedora-marketing-list mailing list
Fedora-marketing-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-marketing-list
 

Thread Tools




All times are GMT. The time now is 06:37 AM.

VBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2007, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright 2007 - 2008, www.linux-archive.org