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Old 03-02-2011, 01:03 PM
"Jˇhann B. Gu­mundsson"
 
Default Gathering community feedback...

As Brian mentioned in [1],[2] as in the CWG wanted to get a constructive
feedback on COC and COCE proposed drafts from the whole community on the
FAB list highlights one issue that the project is facing as in we don't
have a good way of gathering community feedback on topics.

This issue is probably know but for some reason not being worked upon?
( Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong )

Anyway to point out the obvious encase nobody was aware of this issue.
( we have been without one for now about 15 release cycles so something
is amiss )

He posts the proposed drafts to a single mailing list which..

a)
Has a limited number of users subscribed to it

b)
Requires all members of the community to be subscribed to that
particular list.

c)
Mailing list provide the ability to see and reply to others people feed
back resulting in so called *noise* as in people reassuring their
feedback encase the message/meaning did get through and etc.. rather
then constructive discussion.

That results in an end result that is far from being effective and
reaching the whole community.

Coming up with a rough solution to gather the feedback is a no brainer

First we need a common dominator that applies to all community members
and that one is obvious FAS account.

Next we need a web server with a DB backend, hooked up to FAS with an
simple web page that the community member logs into that displays to him
what he needs to provide his feedback and two text boxes one for the
feedback and another one for any question he might have with regards to
the proposal/draft itself.

With the above in place all that is needed is to request the feedback
via our public channels like a mail to the announce or something similar.

Now the tricky part is coming up with a simple yet scalable to the total
number of community members solution, to work through all that feedback
I got couple of ideas up my sleeves for that but instead of reinventing
the wheel I propose that existing survey tools like [1],[2] be looked at
first to see how they have solved the problem we are facing.

JBG

1.
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/advisory-board/2011-March/010525.html
2.
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/advisory-board/2011-March/010526.html
3. http://www.limesurvey.org/
4. http://www.doodle.com
_______________________________________________
infrastructure mailing list
infrastructure@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/infrastructure
 
Old 03-02-2011, 01:03 PM
"Jˇhann B. Gu­mundsson"
 
Default Gathering community feedback...

As Brian mentioned in [1],[2] as in the CWG wanted to get a constructive
feedback on COC and COCE proposed drafts from the whole community on the
FAB list highlights one issue that the project is facing as in we don't
have a good way of gathering community feedback on topics.

This issue is probably know but for some reason not being worked upon?
( Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong )

Anyway to point out the obvious encase nobody was aware of this issue.
( we have been without one for now about 15 release cycles so something
is amiss )

He posts the proposed drafts to a single mailing list which..

a)
Has a limited number of users subscribed to it

b)
Requires all members of the community to be subscribed to that
particular list.

c)
Mailing list provide the ability to see and reply to others people feed
back resulting in so called *noise* as in people reassuring their
feedback encase the message/meaning did get through and etc.. rather
then constructive discussion.

That results in an end result that is far from being effective and
reaching the whole community.

Coming up with a rough solution to gather the feedback is a no brainer

First we need a common dominator that applies to all community members
and that one is obvious FAS account.

Next we need a web server with a DB backend, hooked up to FAS with an
simple web page that the community member logs into that displays to him
what he needs to provide his feedback and two text boxes one for the
feedback and another one for any question he might have with regards to
the proposal/draft itself.

With the above in place all that is needed is to request the feedback
via our public channels like a mail to the announce or something similar.

Now the tricky part is coming up with a simple yet scalable to the total
number of community members solution, to work through all that feedback
I got couple of ideas up my sleeves for that but instead of reinventing
the wheel I propose that existing survey tools like [1],[2] be looked at
first to see how they have solved the problem we are facing.

JBG

1.
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/advisory-board/2011-March/010525.html
2.
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/advisory-board/2011-March/010526.html
3. http://www.limesurvey.org/
4. http://www.doodle.com
_______________________________________________
advisory-board mailing list
advisory-board@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/advisory-board
 
Old 03-02-2011, 01:03 PM
"Jˇhann B. Gu­mundsson"
 
Default Gathering community feedback...

As Brian mentioned in [1],[2] as in the CWG wanted to get a constructive
feedback on COC and COCE proposed drafts from the whole community on the
FAB list highlights one issue that the project is facing as in we don't
have a good way of gathering community feedback on topics.

This issue is probably know but for some reason not being worked upon?
( Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong )

Anyway to point out the obvious encase nobody was aware of this issue.
( we have been without one for now about 15 release cycles so something
is amiss )

He posts the proposed drafts to a single mailing list which..

a)
Has a limited number of users subscribed to it

b)
Requires all members of the community to be subscribed to that
particular list.

c)
Mailing list provide the ability to see and reply to others people feed
back resulting in so called *noise* as in people reassuring their
feedback encase the message/meaning did get through and etc.. rather
then constructive discussion.

That results in an end result that is far from being effective and
reaching the whole community.

Coming up with a rough solution to gather the feedback is a no brainer

First we need a common dominator that applies to all community members
and that one is obvious FAS account.

Next we need a web server with a DB backend, hooked up to FAS with an
simple web page that the community member logs into that displays to him
what he needs to provide his feedback and two text boxes one for the
feedback and another one for any question he might have with regards to
the proposal/draft itself.

With the above in place all that is needed is to request the feedback
via our public channels like a mail to the announce or something similar.

Now the tricky part is coming up with a simple yet scalable to the total
number of community members solution, to work through all that feedback
I got couple of ideas up my sleeves for that but instead of reinventing
the wheel I propose that existing survey tools like [1],[2] be looked at
first to see how they have solved the problem we are facing.

JBG

1.
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/advisory-board/2011-March/010525.html
2.
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/advisory-board/2011-March/010526.html
3. http://www.limesurvey.org/
4. http://www.doodle.com
_______________________________________________
infrastructure mailing list
infrastructure@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/infrastructure
 
Old 03-02-2011, 01:03 PM
"Jˇhann B. Gu­mundsson"
 
Default Gathering community feedback...

As Brian mentioned in [1],[2] as in the CWG wanted to get a constructive
feedback on COC and COCE proposed drafts from the whole community on the
FAB list highlights one issue that the project is facing as in we don't
have a good way of gathering community feedback on topics.

This issue is probably know but for some reason not being worked upon?
( Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong )

Anyway to point out the obvious encase nobody was aware of this issue.
( we have been without one for now about 15 release cycles so something
is amiss )

He posts the proposed drafts to a single mailing list which..

a)
Has a limited number of users subscribed to it

b)
Requires all members of the community to be subscribed to that
particular list.

c)
Mailing list provide the ability to see and reply to others people feed
back resulting in so called *noise* as in people reassuring their
feedback encase the message/meaning did get through and etc.. rather
then constructive discussion.

That results in an end result that is far from being effective and
reaching the whole community.

Coming up with a rough solution to gather the feedback is a no brainer

First we need a common dominator that applies to all community members
and that one is obvious FAS account.

Next we need a web server with a DB backend, hooked up to FAS with an
simple web page that the community member logs into that displays to him
what he needs to provide his feedback and two text boxes one for the
feedback and another one for any question he might have with regards to
the proposal/draft itself.

With the above in place all that is needed is to request the feedback
via our public channels like a mail to the announce or something similar.

Now the tricky part is coming up with a simple yet scalable to the total
number of community members solution, to work through all that feedback
I got couple of ideas up my sleeves for that but instead of reinventing
the wheel I propose that existing survey tools like [1],[2] be looked at
first to see how they have solved the problem we are facing.

JBG

1.
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/advisory-board/2011-March/010525.html
2.
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/advisory-board/2011-March/010526.html
3. http://www.limesurvey.org/
4. http://www.doodle.com
_______________________________________________
advisory-board mailing list
advisory-board@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/advisory-board
 
Old 03-02-2011, 01:15 PM
Josh Boyer
 
Default Gathering community feedback...

2011/3/2 "Jˇhann B. Gu­mundsson" <johannbg@gmail.com>:
> c)
> Mailing list provide the ability to see and reply to others people feed
> back resulting in so called *noise* as in people reassuring their
> feedback encase the message/meaning did get through and etc.. rather
> then constructive discussion.
>
> That results in an end result that is far from being effective and
> reaching the whole community.

That can be the end result, yes. However, I think it is important to
allow others to see the replies as it will often spark additional
ideas, issues, criticisms in the areas being commented on. Limiting
the ability to see such feedback in real-time is not transparent. If
nothing else, allowing people to see the feedback might prevent
multiple people commenting on the same issue the same way over and
over.

Your proposed solution doesn't explicitly mention the ability to see
other people's feedback via the tool/service/whatever. Maybe you
already had this in mind, but I would suggest you add that as a
requirement to it's design if something like this will go forward.

josh
_______________________________________________
advisory-board mailing list
advisory-board@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/advisory-board
 
Old 03-02-2011, 01:15 PM
Josh Boyer
 
Default Gathering community feedback...

2011/3/2 "Jˇhann B. Gu­mundsson" <johannbg@gmail.com>:
> c)
> Mailing list provide the ability to see and reply to others people feed
> back resulting in so called *noise* as in people reassuring their
> feedback encase the message/meaning did get through and etc.. rather
> then constructive discussion.
>
> That results in an end result that is far from being effective and
> reaching the whole community.

That can be the end result, yes. However, I think it is important to
allow others to see the replies as it will often spark additional
ideas, issues, criticisms in the areas being commented on. Limiting
the ability to see such feedback in real-time is not transparent. If
nothing else, allowing people to see the feedback might prevent
multiple people commenting on the same issue the same way over and
over.

Your proposed solution doesn't explicitly mention the ability to see
other people's feedback via the tool/service/whatever. Maybe you
already had this in mind, but I would suggest you add that as a
requirement to it's design if something like this will go forward.

josh
_______________________________________________
advisory-board mailing list
advisory-board@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/advisory-board
 
Old 03-02-2011, 02:18 PM
"Jˇhann B. Gu­mundsson"
 
Default Gathering community feedback...

On 03/02/2011 02:15 PM, Josh Boyer wrote:
> That can be the end result, yes. However, I think it is important to
> allow others to see the replies as it will often spark additional
> ideas, issues, criticisms in the areas being commented on. Limiting
> the ability to see such feedback in real-time is not transparent. If
> nothing else, allowing people to see the feedback might prevent
> multiple people commenting on the same issue the same way over and
> over.
>
> Your proposed solution doesn't explicitly mention the ability to see
> other people's feedback via the tool/service/whatever. Maybe you
> already had this in mind, but I would suggest you add that as a
> requirement to it's design if something like this will go forward.

Ah yes you are correct and yes I had given it some thought but forgot to
mentioned it there basically gather the feedback in several stages and
make the feedback provided by users public after each stage ( or make it
present on another page but the participant can only comment once per
stage ) to comment on for further feedback ( next stage ) You can add
thumbs up/thumbs down, like/dislike ability to each ones response to
weed out bad responses and continue with good ones but general
discussion about each response be keep out..

I would think a key element while gathering feedback from thousands of
users is to "control the noise" ( which should lead to positive result )
as opposed to be "controlled by the noise" ( which leads to negative
result ) hence a controlled "stage" approach with x period apart would
be effective which cools down all the participant and gives them time to
rationally review the response from others and reply in a constructive
manner on the next "stage".

To simplify/clarify or putting the problem we are faced with in a
different perspective depending how you look at it.

Imagine stuffing thousand of peoples in the same warehouse giving them a
topic to discuss about and at the same time trying to make out and hear
what each of them has to say about the topic.

The answer to that is simple you cant hence the workable approach to
that problem as I see ( simplified version ) is to get everyone to write
down their response which then is gathered and the good responses are
put on the white board and the bad responses on the black board repeat
until you end up with something concrete that everybody likes.

If you have better approach to the problem we are faced with then by all
means share it.

JBG
_______________________________________________
advisory-board mailing list
advisory-board@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/advisory-board
 
Old 03-02-2011, 02:18 PM
"Jˇhann B. Gu­mundsson"
 
Default Gathering community feedback...

On 03/02/2011 02:15 PM, Josh Boyer wrote:
> That can be the end result, yes. However, I think it is important to
> allow others to see the replies as it will often spark additional
> ideas, issues, criticisms in the areas being commented on. Limiting
> the ability to see such feedback in real-time is not transparent. If
> nothing else, allowing people to see the feedback might prevent
> multiple people commenting on the same issue the same way over and
> over.
>
> Your proposed solution doesn't explicitly mention the ability to see
> other people's feedback via the tool/service/whatever. Maybe you
> already had this in mind, but I would suggest you add that as a
> requirement to it's design if something like this will go forward.

Ah yes you are correct and yes I had given it some thought but forgot to
mentioned it there basically gather the feedback in several stages and
make the feedback provided by users public after each stage ( or make it
present on another page but the participant can only comment once per
stage ) to comment on for further feedback ( next stage ) You can add
thumbs up/thumbs down, like/dislike ability to each ones response to
weed out bad responses and continue with good ones but general
discussion about each response be keep out..

I would think a key element while gathering feedback from thousands of
users is to "control the noise" ( which should lead to positive result )
as opposed to be "controlled by the noise" ( which leads to negative
result ) hence a controlled "stage" approach with x period apart would
be effective which cools down all the participant and gives them time to
rationally review the response from others and reply in a constructive
manner on the next "stage".

To simplify/clarify or putting the problem we are faced with in a
different perspective depending how you look at it.

Imagine stuffing thousand of peoples in the same warehouse giving them a
topic to discuss about and at the same time trying to make out and hear
what each of them has to say about the topic.

The answer to that is simple you cant hence the workable approach to
that problem as I see ( simplified version ) is to get everyone to write
down their response which then is gathered and the good responses are
put on the white board and the bad responses on the black board repeat
until you end up with something concrete that everybody likes.

If you have better approach to the problem we are faced with then by all
means share it.

JBG
_______________________________________________
infrastructure mailing list
infrastructure@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/infrastructure
 
Old 03-03-2011, 06:33 PM
Kevin Fenzi
 
Default Gathering community feedback...

...snip idea for a website for community feedback...

Perhaps this would be something good to add to:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Summer_coding_ideas_for_2011
?

I don't think infrastructure has resources to build something like
this, but if it was it's own alive project we could look at resources
for hosting an instance.

limesurvey is still stuck in review:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=508817

kevin
_______________________________________________
advisory-board mailing list
advisory-board@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/advisory-board
 
Old 03-03-2011, 06:33 PM
Kevin Fenzi
 
Default Gathering community feedback...

...snip idea for a website for community feedback...

Perhaps this would be something good to add to:
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Summer_coding_ideas_for_2011
?

I don't think infrastructure has resources to build something like
this, but if it was it's own alive project we could look at resources
for hosting an instance.

limesurvey is still stuck in review:
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=508817

kevin
_______________________________________________
infrastructure mailing list
infrastructure@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/infrastructure
 

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