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Old 11-20-2007, 01:39 PM
Mike McGrath
 
Default hosting git conversion of Fedora CVS tree on fedora infrastructure?

Karsten Wade wrote:

On Mon, 2007-11-19 at 12:01 +0100, Lennert Buytenhek wrote:



The git tree is currently a read-only (slave) version of the CVS
tree, and I expect it to stay that way for some time. But even though
Fedora isn't switching VCSes at this point, I think it would still
make sense to have git/hg/random-other-VCS conversions of the Fedora
CVS tree publically available ...



+1 to the general idea.

Are you interested in building and maintaining the solution in Fedora
Infrastructure? Just asking as a bystander ...



What problem are we trying to solve by doing this or what added
functionality will we get that people can't get by just downloading a
snapshot and importing it into git themselves?


-Mike

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Old 11-20-2007, 02:43 PM
Jeremy Katz
 
Default hosting git conversion of Fedora CVS tree on fedora infrastructure?

On Tue, 2007-11-20 at 08:39 -0600, Mike McGrath wrote:
> Karsten Wade wrote:
> > On Mon, 2007-11-19 at 12:01 +0100, Lennert Buytenhek wrote:
> >> The git tree is currently a read-only (slave) version of the CVS
> >> tree, and I expect it to stay that way for some time. But even though
> >> Fedora isn't switching VCSes at this point, I think it would still
> >> make sense to have git/hg/random-other-VCS conversions of the Fedora
> >> CVS tree publically available ...
> >
> > +1 to the general idea.
> >
> > Are you interested in building and maintaining the solution in Fedora
> > Infrastructure? Just asking as a bystander ...
>
> What problem are we trying to solve by doing this or what added
> functionality will we get that people can't get by just downloading a
> snapshot and importing it into git themselves?

Downloading a snapshot of what? The entire repo? Do we have that
actually available? Even if so, it's still not an incremental grab.

Not that I'm fully sold on mirroring our pkgcvs data across multiple
SCMs, both from a disk space and a maintenance perspective.

Jeremy

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Old 11-20-2007, 07:02 PM
Lennert Buytenhek
 
Default hosting git conversion of Fedora CVS tree on fedora infrastructure?

On Tue, Nov 20, 2007 at 08:39:20AM -0600, Mike McGrath wrote:

> >>The git tree is currently a read-only (slave) version of the CVS
> >>tree, and I expect it to stay that way for some time. But even though
> >>Fedora isn't switching VCSes at this point, I think it would still
> >>make sense to have git/hg/random-other-VCS conversions of the Fedora
> >>CVS tree publically available ...
> >
> >+1 to the general idea.
> >
> >Are you interested in building and maintaining the solution in Fedora
> >Infrastructure? Just asking as a bystander ...
>
> What problem are we trying to solve by doing this or what added
> functionality will we get that people can't get by just downloading
> a snapshot and importing it into git themselves?

As far as I can see, the wegfiles snapshots are CVS checkouts, and
don't contain history information. As such, you don't get the ability
to view history locally, or to easily work with multiple branches, or
some of the other things I described here:

https://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-devel-list/2007-November/msg00561.html

(If you wanted to perform the conversion with history on your local
machine, you'd have to rsync the entire Fedora CVS tree, weighing in
at about 250k files.)

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Old 11-27-2007, 06:39 PM
Mike McGrath
 
Default hosting git conversion of Fedora CVS tree on fedora infrastructure?

Jim Meyering wrote:

Mike McGrath <mmcgrath@redhat.com> wrote:


tried this, its not an easy task. But adding an additional SCM for
GIT which is JUST a copy of what's in CVS sounds like a waste of our
resources. Why not also do SVN, BZR and Mercurial?



IMHO, they're not as useful.




And thats the real trick, I'd imagine the mercurial, svn and bzr guys
would disagree with you.



If Fedora doesn't want to do this, I can probably set up
something independent and provide public git:// access.



If someone else wants to host it I'm all for it, we can certainly make
it easier to get at the raw CVS repo. If the other officers disagree
please let it be known, but this sounds more like a distraction/one off
then something that adds value to our infrastructure.


-Mike

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Old 11-27-2007, 06:40 PM
seth vidal
 
Default hosting git conversion of Fedora CVS tree on fedora infrastructure?

On Tue, 2007-11-27 at 13:39 -0600, Mike McGrath wrote:
> Jim Meyering wrote:
> > Mike McGrath <mmcgrath@redhat.com> wrote:
> >
> >> tried this, its not an easy task. But adding an additional SCM for
> >> GIT which is JUST a copy of what's in CVS sounds like a waste of our
> >> resources. Why not also do SVN, BZR and Mercurial?
> >>
> >
> > IMHO, they're not as useful.
> >
> >
>
> And thats the real trick, I'd imagine the mercurial, svn and bzr guys
> would disagree with you.
>
> > If Fedora doesn't want to do this, I can probably set up
> > something independent and provide public git:// access.
> >
>
> If someone else wants to host it I'm all for it, we can certainly make
> it easier to get at the raw CVS repo. If the other officers disagree
> please let it be known, but this sounds more like a distraction/one off
> then something that adds value to our infrastructure.
>

I concur.

-sv


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Old 11-29-2007, 03:26 PM
Mike McGrath
 
Default hosting git conversion of Fedora CVS tree on fedora infrastructure?

Jim Meyering wrote:

Mike McGrath <mmcgrath@redhat.com> wrote:


Jim Meyering wrote:


Mike McGrath <mmcgrath@redhat.com> wrote:



tried this, its not an easy task. But adding an additional SCM for
GIT which is JUST a copy of what's in CVS sounds like a waste of our
resources. Why not also do SVN, BZR and Mercurial?


IMHO, they're not as useful.


And thats the real trick, I'd imagine the mercurial, svn and bzr guys
would disagree with you.



If Fedora doesn't want to do this, I can probably set up
something independent and provide public git:// access.


If someone else wants to host it I'm all for it, we can certainly make
it easier to get at the raw CVS repo. If the other officers disagree
please let it be known, but this sounds more like a distraction/one
off then something that adds value to our infrastructure.



At 5GB+, (4.5GB for a copy of the cvs repo + 700MB for git) that's too
heavy for me. And besides, it'd really be better under the Fedora
umbrella. Seeing as how much more efficient the git protocol is,
if a few people switch to it from cvs, it'd actually decrease network
bandwidth requirements.

Is there anything I can do to revive this idea?
For example, I'd be happy to own and set up the tools/infrastructure
required to make it all work (I've already done this on three public servers).
All I'd need is an open git port and access to the config files.



If you think git is so much better than CVS (many would agree with you)
come up with a proposal on how we can migrate to it, propose it, then
convince people its the right thing to do.



-Mike

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Old 11-29-2007, 04:22 PM
Jim Meyering
 
Default hosting git conversion of Fedora CVS tree on fedora infrastructure?

Mike McGrath <mmcgrath@redhat.com> wrote:
> Jim Meyering wrote:
...
>> At 5GB+, (4.5GB for a copy of the cvs repo + 700MB for git) that's too
>> heavy for me. And besides, it'd really be better under the Fedora
>> umbrella. Seeing as how much more efficient the git protocol is,
>> if a few people switch to it from cvs, it'd actually decrease network
>> bandwidth requirements.
>>
>> Is there anything I can do to revive this idea?
>> For example, I'd be happy to own and set up the tools/infrastructure
>> required to make it all work (I've already done this on three public servers).
>> All I'd need is an open git port and access to the config files.
>
> If you think git is so much better than CVS (many would agree with
> you) come up with a proposal on how we can migrate to it, propose it,
> then convince people its the right thing to do.

I consider the automated cvs-to-git mirroring to be the first step
in any conversion proposal:

First, give people an idea of what they can expect in a git-based dVCS,
without requiring any change. It lets people continue to use the tools
they're familiar with, and allows the better parts of a dVCS to begin
to show up the radar of those who haven't yet had time to explore them.
It also begins to highlight the parts (if any) of the existing process
that might end up being adjusted with a dVCS. For example, in CVS,
there's no reason to put a summary on the first line of the commit
log message. But with any dVCS, it's encouraged. This shows up when
you compare views of commit summaries in pure-dVCS projects and those
where people have not yet adopted the first-line-is-summary standard.

Helping a big project transition is a big job, so IMHO, the only way to
do it is incrementally. If you try to come up with an all-encompassing
proposal, you might never get buy-in from enough people and you'll wait
forever. With something like this, a dVCS gets a foot in the door.
And if/when people conclude it's worthless or want to try another,
it's easy to revert or shift gears.

Here's a feature of git that'd be handy if there ever is a cut-over:
one can set up a read-only[1] cvs-pserver mirror to the master git
repository. Then, while commits/pushes all go directly through git,
people can still use their cvs clients for read-only operations on the
very same git repository. Offering that service helped to convert a few
projects on savannah.gnu.org from CVS to git: automake, autoconf, m4.
The git-cvsserver emulation is 'ok', but for example doesn't handle the
"-D date-string" part of the protocol. Not a big deal, of course.

[1] you can even use git-cvsserver emulation to *write* into the git
repository, but I don't think it's mature enough for that.

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Old 11-29-2007, 04:26 PM
Mike McGrath
 
Default hosting git conversion of Fedora CVS tree on fedora infrastructure?

Jim Meyering wrote:

seth vidal <skvidal@fedoraproject.org> wrote:


On Thu, 2007-11-29 at 17:25 +0100, Jim Meyering wrote:



At 5GB+, (4.5GB for a copy of the cvs repo + 700MB for git) that's too
heavy for me. And besides, it'd really be better under the Fedora
umbrella. Seeing as how much more efficient the git protocol is,
if a few people switch to it from cvs, it'd actually decrease network
bandwidth requirements.


The problem is we're not running out of network bandwidth most of the
time. We're running out of disk space. Pretty badly, too.



One big advantage to switching from CVS to git is the savings in
disk space. With the example above it's pretty obvious: you can
save exactly the same information using git in 1/6 to 1/4th the space.



Clearly you have tenacity and a desire to see change. If I were you I'd
join the SCMSig:


http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Infrastructure/SCMSig (some of us still
hang out in #fedora-scm)


Schedule and request a meeting, host that meeting and have your voice be
heard. I, for one, would attend whatever meeting you schedule and many
others in the sig would as well. Take a deep breath, send the email and
dive right in. (I'm being totally serious here, I'll be disappointed if
I don't get a meeting request soon :-P


-Mike

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