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Old 01-30-2011, 07:35 PM
Doug
 
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On 01/30/2011 07:01 AM, Chris Bannister wrote:

On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 02:59:08PM -0500, Robert Blair Mason Jr. wrote:

True... I think sudo is only installed if you disable root logins, otherwise you're just stuck with su.

Sigh. Are you running Ubuntu?

Ubuntu is NOT Debian.


You may have the sudo script, but you may not be listed in it, in
which case you'll get a sort of nasty message saying something
like "You don't have permission to use Sudo. It will be reported
to the administrator." You need to look at a file where the user
_is_ permitted, and then, using a vi-like editor called sudoers,
modify the sudo file with your user name, not commented out,
and close the file. Then you will be able to use sudo. (I assume
that the sudo script exists in your distro. If not, you'll have to
get it somewhere.)

I don't understand why any distro does _not_ have this sudo
available, and already set up for the admin of the system. It
is certainly safer to use than su root, which will leave the user
who is not careful in the root forever. Ubuntu has sudo set up.
PCLOS did not, and I had to fix it. Apparently Debian is also
that way--I haven't looked. (Altho I have Deb installed on a
machine, I frankly don't like its politics, and I don't use it.)

--doug

--
Blessed are the peacemakers...for they shall be shot at from both sides. --A. M. Greeley


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Old 01-30-2011, 10:00 PM
Tom Furie
 
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On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 03:35:59PM -0500, Doug wrote:

> that way--I haven't looked. (Altho I have Deb installed on a
> machine, I frankly don't like its politics, and I don't use it.)

Okay, I know I should ignore it, but I can't. If you don't like Debian's
politics and don't use it, what are you here for?

Cheers,
Tom

--
A woman can look both moral and exciting -- if she also looks as if it
were quite a struggle.
-- Edna Ferber


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Old 01-31-2011, 03:00 AM
Chris Bannister
 
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On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 02:40:01PM +0200, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> On Lu, 31 ian 11, 01:01:11, Chris Bannister wrote:
> > On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 02:59:08PM -0500, Robert Blair Mason Jr. wrote:
> > >
> > > True... I think sudo is only installed if you disable root logins, otherwise you're just stuck with su.
> >
> > Sigh. Are you running Ubuntu?
> >
> > Ubuntu is NOT Debian.
>
> If you do an expert install you are offered the choice to disable root
> logins and use sudo instead. Yes, this is on Debian, squeeze installer.

Oh! ok. Then again, "expert" does imply that you know what you are
doing, which seems a bit backwards.

Maybe it is meant for installing to many machines - i.e. a lab or
classroom?

--
"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet."
-- Napoleon Bonaparte


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Old 01-31-2011, 05:37 AM
"Boyd Stephen Smith Jr."
 
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In <20110131040038.GA3315@fischer>, Chris Bannister wrote:
>On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 02:40:01PM +0200, Andrei Popescu wrote:
>> On Lu, 31 ian 11, 01:01:11, Chris Bannister wrote:
>> > On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 02:59:08PM -0500, Robert Blair Mason Jr. wrote:
>> > > True... I think sudo is only installed if you disable root logins,
>> > > otherwise you're just stuck with su.
>> >
>> > Sigh. Are you running Ubuntu?
>> >
>> > Ubuntu is NOT Debian.
>>
>> If you do an expert install you are offered the choice to disable root
>> logins and use sudo instead. Yes, this is on Debian, squeeze installer.
>
>Oh! ok. Then again, "expert" does imply that you know what you are
>doing, which seems a bit backwards.

I maintain that experts will be more likely to use sudo than su. It
provides better granularity and helps avoid password sharing. A password
shared is a password compromised.

I currently maintain 2 physical systems, 2 personal VPS, 1 business VPS, and
share maintainership of at least 1-2 more. Most of them have the root
account disabled. None of them allow root to connect over ssh. All have
sudo available.
--
Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. ,= ,-_-. =.
bss@iguanasuicide.net ((_/)o o(\_))
ICQ: 514984 YM/AIM: DaTwinkDaddy `-'(. .)`-'
http://iguanasuicide.net/ \_/
 
Old 01-31-2011, 11:28 AM
Camaleón
 
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On Mon, 31 Jan 2011 17:00:38 +1300, Chris Bannister wrote:

> On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 02:40:01PM +0200, Andrei Popescu wrote:
>> On Lu, 31 ian 11, 01:01:11, Chris Bannister wrote:
>> > On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 02:59:08PM -0500, Robert Blair Mason Jr.
>> > wrote:
>> > >
>> > > True... I think sudo is only installed if you disable root logins,
>> > > otherwise you're just stuck with su.
>> >
>> > Sigh. Are you running Ubuntu?
>> >
>> > Ubuntu is NOT Debian.
>>
>> If you do an expert install you are offered the choice to disable root
>> logins and use sudo instead. Yes, this is on Debian, squeeze installer.
>
> Oh! ok. Then again, "expert" does imply that you know what you are
> doing, which seems a bit backwards.

Since when "knowing what you are doing" is considered as "backwards"? :-)

> Maybe it is meant for installing to many machines - i.e. a lab or
> classroom?

No, expert install is a "must" for me for every installalation I have to
do. BTW, it's not just "for experts", but for users who want a customized
installation, I'd say.

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


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Old 01-31-2011, 07:00 PM
Andrei Popescu
 
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On Lu, 31 ian 11, 17:00:38, Chris Bannister wrote:
> On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 02:40:01PM +0200, Andrei Popescu wrote:

> > If you do an expert install you are offered the choice to disable
> > root logins and use sudo instead. Yes, this is on Debian, squeeze
> > installer.
>
> Oh! ok. Then again, "expert" does imply that you know what you are
> doing, which seems a bit backwards.

"offered the choice" does not mean it is the default though

Regards,
Andrei
--
Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers:
http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic
 
Old 02-02-2011, 10:33 AM
Chris Bannister
 
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On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 12:37:05AM -0600, Boyd Stephen Smith Jr. wrote:
> In <20110131040038.GA3315@fischer>, Chris Bannister wrote:
> >On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 02:40:01PM +0200, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> >> If you do an expert install you are offered the choice to disable root
> >> logins and use sudo instead. Yes, this is on Debian, squeeze installer.
> >
> >Oh! ok. Then again, "expert" does imply that you know what you are
> >doing, which seems a bit backwards.
>
> I maintain that experts will be more likely to use sudo than su. It
> provides better granularity and helps avoid password sharing. A password
> shared is a password compromised.

Right. But being the expert you probably won't be asking questions where
the answer is something like "sudo <whatever>"

But as is more likely someone asking for advice where the answer is
"sudo <whatever>" are either not experts, and hence it wouldn't have been
configured when they installed squeeze, and therefore the answer "sudo
<whatever>" won't work, or, they are running Ubuntu where it would work
BUT as we all know (all together now) "Ubuntu is NOT Debian."

Am I misunderstanding something?

--
"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet."
-- Napoleon Bonaparte


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Old 02-02-2011, 10:59 AM
Camaleón
 
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On Thu, 03 Feb 2011 01:18:04 +1300, Chris Bannister wrote:

> On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 12:28:28PM +0000, Camaleón wrote:

>> > Oh! ok. Then again, "expert" does imply that you know what you are
>> > doing, which seems a bit backwards.
>>
>> Since when "knowing what you are doing" is considered as "backwards"?
>> :-)
>
> I mean it "seems a bit backwards" in the sense that an expert probably
> wouldn't be asking questions where the answer is a simple "sudo
> <whatever>", whereas someone who is not an "expert" wouldn't have sudo
> configured cause they wouldn't choose "expert install" and therefore
> giving them the answer "sudo <whatever>" wouldn't be usefull.

Hum... if I interpreted correctly your words, you think "sudo" is
intended for non-expert users and I don't think so, but the opposite:
"sudo" (as I see) is for people who know what involves and what it means
and not many newbies know very well how permissions are managed in their
systems and don't care much on security considerations.

In brief: if you know what "sudo" is for, you should not have any problem
to configure it ;-)

>> > Maybe it is meant for installing to many machines - i.e. a lab or
>> > classroom?
>>
>> No, expert install is a "must" for me for every installalation I have
>> to
> ^^^^^
> Which seems to mean you do a few?

Yep, well, quite a few... on servers, workstations and desktop computers
but that is less that <100 machines. I make a complete full system
install every 2 years.

>> do. BTW, it's not just "for experts", but for users who want a
>> customized installation, I'd say.
>
> Mmmm, true, I think there are options where you can fine tune the
> partitioning etc. But calling it "expert install" may put newbies off
> choosing it.

Sure... "expert" is not bad wording (it indicates you need some
background on computers to deal with that kind of installation procedure)
but it could be improved if the user knew beforehand what steps will he/
she encounter when choosing that option.

Greetings,

--
Camaleón


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Old 02-02-2011, 11:18 AM
Chris Bannister
 
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On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 12:28:28PM +0000, Camaleón wrote:
> On Mon, 31 Jan 2011 17:00:38 +1300, Chris Bannister wrote:
>
> > On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 02:40:01PM +0200, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> >> If you do an expert install you are offered the choice to disable root
> >> logins and use sudo instead. Yes, this is on Debian, squeeze installer.
> >
> > Oh! ok. Then again, "expert" does imply that you know what you are
> > doing, which seems a bit backwards.
>
> Since when "knowing what you are doing" is considered as "backwards"? :-)

I mean it "seems a bit backwards" in the sense that an expert probably
wouldn't be asking questions where the answer is a simple "sudo
<whatever>", whereas someone who is not an "expert" wouldn't have sudo
configured cause they wouldn't choose "expert install" and therefore
giving them the answer "sudo <whatever>" wouldn't be usefull.

> > Maybe it is meant for installing to many machines - i.e. a lab or
> > classroom?
>
> No, expert install is a "must" for me for every installalation I have to
^^^^^
Which seems to mean you do a few?

> do. BTW, it's not just "for experts", but for users who want a customized
> installation, I'd say.

Mmmm, true, I think there are options where you can fine tune the
partitioning etc. But calling it "expert install" may put newbies off
choosing it.

--
"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet."
-- Napoleon Bonaparte


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Old 02-02-2011, 11:25 AM
Chris Bannister
 
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On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 10:00:41PM +0200, Andrei Popescu wrote:
> On Lu, 31 ian 11, 17:00:38, Chris Bannister wrote:
> > On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 02:40:01PM +0200, Andrei Popescu wrote:
>
> > > If you do an expert install you are offered the choice to disable
> > > root logins and use sudo instead. Yes, this is on Debian, squeeze
> > > installer.
> >
> > Oh! ok. Then again, "expert" does imply that you know what you are
> > doing, which seems a bit backwards.
>
> "offered the choice" does not mean it is the default though

No, right. I haven't seen the Squeeze installer in action yet. I soon
will though and will give it more of a "critical" look when I do.

I was mainly concerned that giving advice to Ubuntu users on a Debian
list, may "bugger" up their system.

--
"Religion is excellent stuff for keeping common people quiet."
-- Napoleon Bonaparte


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