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Old 11-14-2009, 09:49 PM
Bruno Wolff III
 
Default Should Fedora become upstream for "chess"

"chess" is a 3d chess game that is more or less a demo for the ogre library.
It's developer declared it finished a while back and things have since
moved on. (Particularly with ogre updates.)

I had to look at the package in order to make sure it would work with an
updated ois and found lots of cruft. So while it can be fixed to work as
poorly with ois 1.2 as it does with ois 1.0, it could really use some
more comprehensive attention.

My opinion is that either Fedora should become upstream (after double checking
with the original developer) for chess or it should drop it.

What I think needs to be done is update at least some of the meshes for
ogre 1.6.

Currently during the build process some files have an ogre 1.4 version, but
aren't used. This should be changed so that just 1.6 versions remain.

The ogre references should all use the Ogre name space. (At least for the
Vector3 class this needs to be done to work with ois 1.2.)

The compiler warnings should be looked at to see if they are real problems
and fixed if necessary. (Even some unnecessary fixes that silence the warnings
may be desireable.)

It looks like it tries to use some fonts that were stripped out and fallback
to something else isn't happening.

A start up script that checks for 3d availablity should be part of the
package.

I don't think there is currently a way to change the orge.cfg file (which
specifies some OpenGL configuration) once it has been set up. There may be
some way to access this again from inside chess, but with the fonts not
appearing to work, I can't tell what options are available.

What do other people think?

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Old 11-15-2009, 12:37 AM
"Jon Ciesla"
 
Default Should Fedora become upstream for "chess"

> "chess" is a 3d chess game that is more or less a
demo for the ogre
> library.
> It's developer declared it
finished a while back and things have since
> moved on.
(Particularly with ogre updates.)
>
> I had to look at
the package in order to make sure it would work with an
> updated
ois and found lots of cruft. So while it can be fixed to work as
>
poorly with ois 1.2 as it does with ois 1.0, it could really use some
> more comprehensive attention.
>
> My opinion is
that either Fedora should become upstream (after double
>
checking
> with the original developer) for chess or it should
drop it.
>
> What I think needs to be done is update at
least some of the meshes for
> ogre 1.6.
>
>
Currently during the build process some files have an ogre 1.4 version,
> but
> aren't used. This should be changed so that just 1.6
versions remain.
>
> The ogre references should all use
the Ogre name space. (At least for the
> Vector3 class this needs
to be done to work with ois 1.2.)
>
> The compiler
warnings should be looked at to see if they are real problems
>
and fixed if necessary. (Even some unnecessary fixes that silence the
> warnings
> may be desireable.)
>
> It
looks like it tries to use some fonts that were stripped out and
>
fallback
> to something else isn't happening.
>
>
A start up script that checks for 3d availablity should be part of the
> package.
>
> I don't think there is currently a
way to change the orge.cfg file (which
> specifies some OpenGL
configuration) once it has been set up. There may be
> some way to
access this again from inside chess, but with the fonts not
>
appearing to work, I can't tell what options are available.
>
> What do other people think?

I think the problems are
probably solvable.* I think we (collectively) can do it.* You
could enlist Nicholas Mailhot(not sure if he's on this list or not) for
font assistance.* We can use the opengl-games-utils package to check
for 3d.* I can take a look at some of the other things, too.*
Looks like Hans owns it, and while he could be a great resource for a lot
of this, he's been pretty busy lately and has been asking for people to
take of things here and there, so he may not have the bandwidth.*

Let me know what you think, and if you'd like take me up on any or
all my offers of assistance.

-J

>
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>
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> Fedora-games-list@redhat.com
> http://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-games-list
>



--
in your fear, seek only peace
in your
fear, seek only love

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Old 11-15-2009, 03:48 PM
Bruno Wolff III
 
Default Should Fedora become upstream for "chess"

On Sat, Nov 14, 2009 at 19:37:04 -0600,
Jon Ciesla <limb@jcomserv.net> wrote:
>
> I think the problems are
> probably solvable.* I think we (collectively) can do it.* You
> could enlist Nicholas Mailhot(not sure if he's on this list or not) for
> font assistance.* We can use the opengl-games-utils package to check
> for 3d.* I can take a look at some of the other things, too.*
> Looks like Hans owns it, and while he could be a great resource for a lot
> of this, he's been pretty busy lately and has been asking for people to
> take of things here and there, so he may not have the bandwidth.*
>
> Let me know what you think, and if you'd like take me up on any or
> all my offers of assistance.

I am willing to do most of the initial work, asking for help where needed.

I think forking a project (even a small one like chess) is a big step.
There are also potential repercussions in the reputation area. Which is
why I would ask the original developer to see if he still considers chess
finished before becoming upstream. But it also seems silly to be sharing
out updates in the form of a src rpm (with patch files and scripts being
run to update meshes), when a repository with an occasional tar ball would be
easier for other people who want to keep using the program in other
distributions with an up to date ogre.

I am pretty close to asking Hans to be a comaintainer of ogre, ois and
chess in devel anyway, because I want some movement there to help get
dungeonhack packaged. I think the person who has been helping with this
stuff recently is having some problems being able to test 3d (which I
understand as my radeons just became usable for that) because of nVidia
driver issues.

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Old 11-15-2009, 04:46 PM
Bruno Wolff III
 
Default Should Fedora become upstream for "chess"

On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 10:48:27 -0600,
Bruno Wolff III <bruno@wolff.to> wrote:
>
> I am pretty close to asking Hans to be a comaintainer of ogre, ois and
> chess in devel anyway, because I want some movement there to help get
> dungeonhack packaged.

Since Hans offered this combo in a bug report, I have accepted it and I
will probably be the owner of those three shortly.

So I am especially interested in what people think of having Fedora be
upstream (a git repo on fedora hosted) if the original developer isn't
interested in continuing with updates.

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Old 11-15-2009, 05:47 PM
Hans de Goede
 
Default Should Fedora become upstream for "chess"

Hi,

On 11/14/2009 11:49 PM, Bruno Wolff III wrote:

"chess" is a 3d chess game that is more or less a demo for the ogre library.


That is actually a very accurate description, at least it is the reason I
packaged it to have something to test / demo ogre.


It's developer declared it finished a while back and things have since
moved on. (Particularly with ogre updates.)



Correct, note this is not a chess specific problem, many many games are
considered finished by their upstream at a certain moment in time, at which
point that upstream usually ceases to exist as a meaningful upstream for distro's
their are tons of games which have patches in every single to distro to get them
to compile with recent gcc / newer versions of libraries, etc.


I had to look at the package in order to make sure it would work with an
updated ois and found lots of cruft. So while it can be fixed to work as
poorly with ois 1.2 as it does with ois 1.0, it could really use some
more comprehensive attention.



True, otoh if it aint broken don't fix it, seriously you are very welcome to do
this, but is it worth the effort. I'm sure their are games more deserving attention
like this, which are in a similar situation. What I usually do, is just keep them
building with the latest toolchains, fixing things like compiler warnings when
I touch a certain piece of the code, but no more then that.

Many of these games have been working fine with a zillion compiler warnings without
any issues at all.


My opinion is that either Fedora should become upstream (after double checking
with the original developer) for chess or it should drop it.



I think this problem is bigger then just chess, but if you feel like cleaning
up chess and starting a fedora hosted project for it by all means, please do.


What I think needs to be done is update at least some of the meshes for
ogre 1.6.

Currently during the build process some files have an ogre 1.4 version, but
aren't used. This should be changed so that just 1.6 versions remain.

The ogre references should all use the Ogre name space. (At least for the
Vector3 class this needs to be done to work with ois 1.2.)

The compiler warnings should be looked at to see if they are real problems
and fixed if necessary. (Even some unnecessary fixes that silence the warnings
may be desireable.)

It looks like it tries to use some fonts that were stripped out and fallback
to something else isn't happening.



This might just be another mesa ogre conflict, all text in the game works fine
for me (when testing on an nvidia equiped machine with their binary driver, I
usually don't test with Intel / ATI, as in my experience that results in a 1 frame
per 2 - 3 seconds slideshow.


A start up script that checks for 3d availablity should be part of the
package.



True.


I don't think there is currently a way to change the orge.cfg file (which
specifies some OpenGL configuration) once it has been set up. There may be
some way to access this again from inside chess, but with the fonts not
appearing to work, I can't tell what options are available.


There is no easy way to change ogre.cfg after the first run, note that all
ogre apps seem to suffer from this, so we may want to work on a more generic
solution for this.

Regards,

Hans

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Old 11-15-2009, 05:56 PM
Bruno Wolff III
 
Default Should Fedora become upstream for "chess"

On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 19:47:41 +0100,
Hans de Goede <j.w.r.degoede@hhs.nl> wrote:
>
> True, otoh if it aint broken don't fix it, seriously you are very welcome to do
> this, but is it worth the effort. I'm sure their are games more deserving attention
> like this, which are in a similar situation. What I usually do, is just keep them
> building with the latest toolchains, fixing things like compiler warnings when

I think I can use it to help test and learn ogre stuff, so I think it is a
close call.

> I think this problem is bigger then just chess, but if you feel like cleaning
> up chess and starting a fedora hosted project for it by all means, please do.

I'll contact the original developer to see if he objects to Fedora becoming
an upstream for the game (at least for linux, I am not planning on cross
compiling windows builds).

> >It looks like it tries to use some fonts that were stripped out and fallback
> >to something else isn't happening.
> >
>
> This might just be another mesa ogre conflict, all text in the game works fine
> for me (when testing on an nvidia equiped machine with their binary driver, I
> usually don't test with Intel / ATI, as in my experience that results in a 1 frame
> per 2 - 3 seconds slideshow.

It is pretty slow on my rv280, but I can test it occasionally on an rv530.
I also have some nv28 cards that I can test stuff on from time to time.
(Currently I don't have nVidia's drivers installed so that I can test
nouveau without worrying about interference from nVidia's stuff.)

> >I don't think there is currently a way to change the orge.cfg file (which
> >specifies some OpenGL configuration) once it has been set up. There may be
> >some way to access this again from inside chess, but with the fonts not
> >appearing to work, I can't tell what options are available.
>
> There is no easy way to change ogre.cfg after the first run, note that all
> ogre apps seem to suffer from this, so we may want to work on a more generic
> solution for this.

Are you thinking a separate set up script sort of like vegastrike does?

Would there be one tool for all ogre stuff or would we try to push upstream
changes per package? (There don't seem to be many things using ogre currently.)

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Old 11-15-2009, 09:12 PM
Hans de Goede
 
Default Should Fedora become upstream for "chess"

Hi,

On 11/15/2009 07:56 PM, Bruno Wolff III wrote:

On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 19:47:41 +0100,
Hans de Goede<j.w.r.degoede@hhs.nl> wrote:


True, otoh if it aint broken don't fix it, seriously you are very welcome to do
this, but is it worth the effort. I'm sure their are games more deserving attention
like this, which are in a similar situation. What I usually do, is just keep them
building with the latest toolchains, fixing things like compiler warnings when


I think I can use it to help test and learn ogre stuff, so I think it is a
close call.



That seems a good reason, so I would say go for it.


I think this problem is bigger then just chess, but if you feel like cleaning
up chess and starting a fedora hosted project for it by all means, please do.


I'll contact the original developer to see if he objects to Fedora becoming
an upstream for the game (at least for linux, I am not planning on cross
compiling windows builds).



Sounds good.


It looks like it tries to use some fonts that were stripped out and fallback
to something else isn't happening.



This might just be another mesa ogre conflict, all text in the game works fine
for me (when testing on an nvidia equiped machine with their binary driver, I
usually don't test with Intel / ATI, as in my experience that results in a 1 frame
per 2 - 3 seconds slideshow.


It is pretty slow on my rv280, but I can test it occasionally on an rv530.
I also have some nv28 cards that I can test stuff on from time to time.
(Currently I don't have nVidia's drivers installed so that I can test
nouveau without worrying about interference from nVidia's stuff.)



In my experience (but I have not tried recently), even my rv570 will not run
all ogre samples at acceptable speed with the foss drivers.


I don't think there is currently a way to change the orge.cfg file (which
specifies some OpenGL configuration) once it has been set up. There may be
some way to access this again from inside chess, but with the fonts not
appearing to work, I can't tell what options are available.


There is no easy way to change ogre.cfg after the first run, note that all
ogre apps seem to suffer from this, so we may want to work on a more generic
solution for this.


Are you thinking a separate set up script sort of like vegastrike does?



There already is a separate setup script (that is what you get the first time),
the problem is that every applications calls this itself and then stores the data
somewhere it would be nice to:
a) have reasonable defaults somehow, and offer the setup as an option rather then
always asking on first run
b) share ogre settings between apps

Regards,

Hans

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Old 11-15-2009, 09:26 PM
Bruno Wolff III
 
Default Should Fedora become upstream for "chess"

On Sun, Nov 15, 2009 at 23:12:45 +0100,
Hans de Goede <j.w.r.degoede@hhs.nl> wrote:
>
> There already is a separate setup script (that is what you get the first time),
> the problem is that every applications calls this itself and then stores the data
> somewhere it would be nice to:
> a) have reasonable defaults somehow, and offer the setup as an option rather then
> always asking on first run
> b) share ogre settings between apps

I agree this would be the best outcome.

I don't think I am ready to work on doing that right now, but I'll keep it
in mind as a future project.

For the shared settings I think there also needs to be a way to make app
specific settings in addition to the generic ones.

Some people have complained in the recent past about games starting in
full screen and causing problems. For ogre based games the defaults could
be set to avoid this using the hypothetical arrangement above.

This also sounds like something that is likely to be desired in upstream
ogre, depending on the exact implementation.

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