On 10/27/2010 6:27 PM, Connie Sieh wrote:
>
> But if you do not have all the rpms on multiple DVD's then is is
> imcomplete distribution method. If one wants all of Fedora or
> RHEL then having all of the rpms on multiple DVD's is easier to
> obtain than mirroring. In the case of RHEL there is no mirroring
> thus multiple DVD's are required.
>
I'll throw my 2 cents in here.
I currently need to have distributions available as ISO's to burn,
and as NFS (or HTTP) shares for network installs. In order to save
disk space, I currently only store the ISO's, and then loop-back mount
them to share their contents.
This makes multi-ISO releases (that need to be merged) a pain. It
forces me to copy out (unless the extra media can just be mounted
inside or beside the first?) the contents and use twice the disk
space. So I really prefer a single ISO.
But at the same time, I need to have a full mirror of everything
local. 'Spins' (unless I don't understand them?) won't really work for
me (seems like a lot of Duplication inf the ISO's? - If I have a full
set of the RPMs, can't spins be just a package lists?)
I'm not sure what the solution is really. I can mount a single ISO no
matter how big it gets, but if it's bigger than I can burn then I'm
back in the situation of needing a second (mostly the same) ISO to
burn for people.
Maybe mulitple ~4.3GB ISO's is a better solution, as long as one can
just mount discs 2, 3, etc. inside disc 1.
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10-28-2010, 01:34 PM
Chuck Anderson
- get rid of split media
On Thu, Oct 28, 2010 at 08:54:18AM -0400, Kyle McDonald wrote:
> I currently need to have distributions available as ISO's to burn,
> and as NFS (or HTTP) shares for network installs. In order to save
> disk space, I currently only store the ISO's, and then loop-back mount
> them to share their contents.
>
> This makes multi-ISO releases (that need to be merged) a pain. It
> forces me to copy out (unless the extra media can just be mounted
> inside or beside the first?) the contents and use twice the disk
> space. So I really prefer a single ISO.
Not if you make a symlink tree. cp -al is your friend.
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10-28-2010, 02:01 PM
Chris Lumens
- get rid of split media
> I agree with this in general. But I can't help but wonder if there are
> anaconda-using projects that are going to be limited to doing ISO based
> installs for the most part, and may have to deal with split DVDs depending
> on how they grow.
If there are anaconda-using projects that have specific needs, they need
to start speaking up. I don't hear from anyone else who uses anaconda
in their distribution, so I can only assume they don't care about any of
the decisions I'm making.
- Chris
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10-28-2010, 02:03 PM
Chris Lumens
- get rid of split media
> Ok just to clarify.. I know that this change will not affect CentOS
> 4.9, 5.[6-9] or 6.X.. but would only affect 7.X but will this affect
> RHEL7 if it turns out to need multi-ISO or do we want to wait til
> then?
This change will only affect F15 and any distributions derived from it
or later Fedora releases. So, no RHEL [456].x.
- Chris
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10-28-2010, 02:04 PM
Chris Lumens
- get rid of split media
> I think the answer there would be "It'll be too hard to bring
> split-media back. Ship less stuff in RHEL, or follow the Fedora model of
> only putting certain things on media"
>
> But that's just what I would say, and I speak for myself.
Yes, I agree. There are so many options here. There's shipping less
stuff, there's shipping different "spins" for different products,
there's using a network-based distribution method, there's using live
media.
- Chris
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10-28-2010, 02:15 PM
David Cantrell
- get rid of split media
On Wed, 27 Oct 2010, Bill Nottingham wrote:
Chris Lumens (clumens@redhat.com) said:
If you get rid of split media, what will happen once you have a
multi-DVD release?
The idea is that multi-DVD is too much crud, and we should be better
structuring our releases to where that's not a problem. That is, spins
should become more discerning and useful. Network install methods
should get played up more. The livecd is a popular way of installing
now, and that's not going to be multi-media.
I agree with this in general. But I can't help but wonder if there are
anaconda-using projects that are going to be limited to doing ISO based
installs for the most part, and may have to deal with split DVDs depending
on how they grow.
We could also consider creating install images designed for use on large
capacity USB flash drives. A 32GB flash drive can hold the entire
distribution and work as an installation source. Boot and install from it or
just use it as the package repo.
--
David Cantrell <dcantrell@redhat.com>
Red Hat / Honolulu, HI
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10-28-2010, 02:16 PM
Dennis Gregorovic
- get rid of split media
On Thu, 2010-10-28 at 10:03 -0400, Chris Lumens wrote:
> > Ok just to clarify.. I know that this change will not affect CentOS
> > 4.9, 5.[6-9] or 6.X.. but would only affect 7.X but will this affect
> > RHEL7 if it turns out to need multi-ISO or do we want to wait til
> > then?
>
> This change will only affect F15 and any distributions derived from it
> or later Fedora releases. So, no RHEL [456].x.
>
> - Chris
It's hard to predict the RHEL 7 requirements at this point.
Since Fedora itself is not producing split media, even if we kept the
code in anaconda, it would not get any use in the Fedora space. So, I'm
inclined to say yank the code and we can cross the RHEL 7 bridge when we
get to it.
-- Dennis
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10-28-2010, 02:18 PM
John Reiser
- get rid of split media
On 10/28/2010 01:50 AM, Moray Henderson wrote:
> This could bite upgrades. Last year I had to put together upgrades from
> CentOS-4-based systems to CentOS-5-based, using CDs not DVD or network.
> [snip] The only way I could reduce the upgrade to a single CD [snip]
It is easy to boot from CD to the GRUB screen, edit the kernel command line
parameter "root=" to point to a USB drive which will be recognized by the
to-be-booted kernel, and then run anaconda (or any system) from USB, even
USB1.1. I use this to run an old laptop (which boots only from CD or
harddrive) using no battery-draining moving parts after boot, treating
an 8 GB USB2.0 flash memory drive as a "solid state disk."
--
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10-28-2010, 02:51 PM
Connie Sieh
- get rid of split media
On Thu, 28 Oct 2010, Chris Lumens wrote:
Ok just to clarify.. I know that this change will not affect CentOS
4.9, 5.[6-9] or 6.X.. but would only affect 7.X but will this affect
RHEL7 if it turns out to need multi-ISO or do we want to wait til
then?
This change will only affect F15 and any distributions derived from it
or later Fedora releases. So, no RHEL [456].x.
So what about RHEL 7 .
There were conversations on the rhelv6-beta-list that if wants to know the
future of RHEL then one needs to watch Fedora. These conversations
started because users of the RHEL 6 beta were "surprised" about this
feature or that feature. RedHat employees said to watch Fedora .
-Connie Sieh
- Chris
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10-28-2010, 02:57 PM
Chris Lumens
- get rid of split media
> >This change will only affect F15 and any distributions derived from it
> >or later Fedora releases. So, no RHEL [456].x.
>
> So what about RHEL 7 .
Well, obviously anything we do in Fedora now will show up in RHEL 7
unless we have to later go back and make some changes.
But as for specifics, I have no idea. I'm focused on just F15 at the
moment.
> There were conversations on the rhelv6-beta-list that if wants to
> know the future of RHEL then one needs to watch Fedora. These
> conversations started because users of the RHEL 6 beta were
> "surprised" about this feature or that feature. RedHat employees
> said to watch Fedora .
Yep, good idea.
- Chris
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- get rid of split media
