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Old 06-01-2008, 09:51 AM
Patrice Dumas
 
Default a new page for packaging recommendations by everyone

Hello,

I have begun a wiki page with something that looks like guidelines, but
that are opened for everyone, and allow to have controversial
recommendations:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackagingTricks

It would be nice if reviewers, especially those with a lot of
experience who have said more than once something in reviews, to
document their knowledge. Also I think that controversial packaging
issues that result in long threads on mailing lists could be
documented there.

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Old 06-01-2008, 12:45 PM
Thorsten Leemhuis
 
Default a new page for packaging recommendations by everyone

On 01.06.2008 11:51, Patrice Dumas wrote:


I have begun a wiki page with something that looks like guidelines, but
that are opened for everyone, and allow to have controversial
recommendations:

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackagingTricks

It would be nice if reviewers, especially those with a lot of
experience who have said more than once something in reviews, to
document their knowledge. Also I think that controversial packaging
issues that result in long threads on mailing lists could be
documented there.


Just my 2 cent:

* I'd say that page should be merged into or with
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/FrequentlyMadeMistakes
as the topics are similar (albeit not 100% identical)

* I'd say that page belongs into the
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/
namespace

CU
knurd

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Old 06-01-2008, 12:53 PM
Till Maas
 
Default a new page for packaging recommendations by everyone

On Sun June 1 2008, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote:

> * I'd say that page belongs into the
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/
> namespace

Afaik pages in the Packaging namespace can only be edited by the Packaging
Commitee, but the http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackageMaintainers namespace
would fit.

Regards,
Till
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Old 06-01-2008, 01:06 PM
Thorsten Leemhuis
 
Default a new page for packaging recommendations by everyone

On 01.06.2008 14:53, Till Maas wrote:

On Sun June 1 2008, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote:


* I'd say that page belongs into the
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/
namespace
Afaik pages in the Packaging namespace can only be edited by the Packaging
Commitee, but the http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackageMaintainers namespace
would fit.


/me grumbles

Yes, I forgot that special restriction (a quite bad one IMHO, but that's
a different discussion). So IOW:


Might be good idea to merge the old
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/FrequentlyMadeMistakes
and the new
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackagingTricks
into a new page and place it somewhere where all contributors can edit
them (which is not the case in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/
where such a page would logically fit best).


Cu
knur

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Old 06-01-2008, 03:17 PM
Toshio Kuratomi
 
Default a new page for packaging recommendations by everyone

Thorsten Leemhuis wrote:



On 01.06.2008 14:53, Till Maas wrote:

On Sun June 1 2008, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote:


* I'd say that page belongs into the
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/
namespace
Afaik pages in the Packaging namespace can only be edited by the
Packaging Commitee, but the
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackageMaintainers namespace would fit.


/me grumbles

Yes, I forgot that special restriction (a quite bad one IMHO, but that's
a different discussion). So IOW:


Might be good idea to merge the old
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/FrequentlyMadeMistakes
and the new
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackagingTricks
into a new page and place it somewhere where all contributors can edit
them (which is not the case in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/
where such a page would logically fit best).




tibbs> | spot: Any chance we could work out access to some of the
pages under Packaging?

0:55 < tibbs> | CommonRpmlintIssues and FrequentlyMadeMistakes?
0:55 < spot> | tibbs: sure.
0:56 --- | mspevack is now known as mspevack_mtg
0:56 < spot> | tibbs: i'll try to open the ACLs for those
(assuming that moinmoin plays nice)


- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SteeringCommittee/Meeting-20060608

Perhaps the ACLs just have to be re-opened now that we're using mediawiki?

-Toshio

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Old 06-01-2008, 05:09 PM
Thorsten Leemhuis
 
Default a new page for packaging recommendations by everyone

On 01.06.2008 17:17, Toshio Kuratomi wrote:
> [...]
tibbs> | spot: Any chance we could work out access to some of the
pages under Packaging?

0:55 < tibbs> | CommonRpmlintIssues and FrequentlyMadeMistakes?
0:55 < spot> | tibbs: sure.
0:56 --- | mspevack is now known as mspevack_mtg
0:56 < spot> | tibbs: i'll try to open the ACLs for those
(assuming that moinmoin plays nice)

- https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SteeringCommittee/Meeting-20060608
Perhaps the ACLs just have to be re-opened now that we're using mediawiki?


Don't think that's wise.

Instead drop them completely; give everyone again a chance to *easily*
participate everywhere in Fedora without being in committees; those
should watch and coordinate/decide only if needed. IOW: it's a wiki, we
should use it like one!


But from older discussions I'm well aware that you guys don't want to
that. I think that's totally stupid(), but that's just my option. Thus
move everything out of Packaging/ that is meant to be modified for
ordinary packagers; that will avoid a lot of confusion, as it'll be
crystal clear for everyone then that Packaging/ is completely maintained
by the Packaging Committee.


Cu
knurd

() note "that"; the packaging committee members are highly skilled
people and I think they are doing a lot of good work; I just don't like
the ACLs and the bureaucracy which is needed to get something improved;
that is not specific to the Packaging Committee and has become a general
problem in Fedora; I'm well aware that some of that is my fault from the
days when I was more active/in FESCo


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Old 06-01-2008, 05:10 PM
Toshio Kuratomi
 
Default a new page for packaging recommendations by everyone

Thorsten Leemhuis wrote:



On 01.06.2008 14:53, Till Maas wrote:

On Sun June 1 2008, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote:


* I'd say that page belongs into the
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/
namespace
Afaik pages in the Packaging namespace can only be edited by the
Packaging Commitee, but the
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackageMaintainers namespace would fit.


/me grumbles

Yes, I forgot that special restriction (a quite bad one IMHO, but that's
a different discussion). So IOW:


Might be good idea to merge the old
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/FrequentlyMadeMistakes
and the new
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackagingTricks
into a new page and place it somewhere where all contributors can edit
them (which is not the case in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/
where such a page would logically fit best).




0:55 < tibbs> | spot: Any chance we could work out access to some
of the pages under Packaging?

0:55 < tibbs> | CommonRpmlintIssues and FrequentlyMadeMistakes?
0:55 < spot> | tibbs: sure.
0:56 --- | mspevack is now known as mspevack_mtg
0:56 < spot> | tibbs: i'll try to open the ACLs for those
(assuming that moinmoin plays nice)


https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Extras/SteeringCommittee/Meeting-20060608

Maybe the open acls weren't moved over when we switched from moinmoin to
mediawiki? Someone outside the Packaging Committee please try to edit
the page and if acls prevent it, ping infrastructure (#fedora-admin) to
fix it.


-Toshio

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Old 06-01-2008, 05:23 PM
Till Maas
 
Default a new page for packaging recommendations by everyone

On Sun June 1 2008, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote:

> Instead drop them completely; give everyone again a chance to *easily*
> participate everywhere in Fedora without being in committees; those
> should watch and coordinate/decide only if needed. IOW: it's a wiki, we
> should use it like one!

There is an extension for mediawiki to allow reviewing and marking revisions
of a page as stable. Imho this would make it a lot easier to participate in
the changing of acl-restricted pages:
http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:FlaggedRevs

Of course it needs to be tested how good this works with the acl system in
place. I already created an ticket in the Infrastructure trac to collect
information about this:
https://fedorahosted.org/fedora-infrastructure/ticket/583

> move everything out of Packaging/ that is meant to be modified for
> ordinary packagers; that will avoid a lot of confusion, as it'll be
> crystal clear for everyone then that Packaging/ is completely maintained
> by the Packaging Committee.

I agree, having some pages that may be edited is only confusing.

Regards,
Till
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Old 06-01-2008, 07:11 PM
Patrice Dumas
 
Default a new page for packaging recommendations by everyone

On Sun, Jun 01, 2008 at 03:06:48PM +0200, Thorsten Leemhuis wrote:
>
>
> Yes, I forgot that special restriction (a quite bad one IMHO, but that's
> a different discussion). So IOW:
>
> Might be good idea to merge the old
> http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/FrequentlyMadeMistakes
> and the new
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackagingTricks
> into a new page and place it somewhere where all contributors can edit
> them (which is not the case in http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Packaging/
> where such a page would logically fit best).

I merged everything from Packaging/FrequentlyMadeMistakes that seemed
relevant to me and moved the page to
https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/PackageMaintainers/PackagingTricks

I also added a part with
'Recommendations for a sane review process'

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