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Old 05-27-2008, 07:53 PM
seth vidal
 
Default package popularity ratings

Hi,
I got this bug assigned to yum the other day:

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=446836

it's not really a yum item, yet, b/c yum can really only USE the data,
not generate it.

However, I don't know where it should go. Is anyone working on this sort
of thing?

-sv



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Old 05-27-2008, 09:14 PM
Michael DeHaan
 
Default package popularity ratings

seth vidal wrote:

Hi,
I got this bug assigned to yum the other day:

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=446836

it's not really a yum item, yet, b/c yum can really only USE the data,
not generate it.

However, I don't know where it should go. Is anyone working on this sort
of thing?

-sv





"

Very similar to ubuntu's popularity meter,
but better.
"


Cough, *Debian*, cough.

I'd be interested in this too. Smolt has opt-in ways to send stats, could we hijack that submission infrastructure to also do software inventory?

If so, the code seems like it would be pretty simple.

We'd probably want that to be /another/ opt in switch since it's slightly different info?

--Michael





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Old 05-27-2008, 09:25 PM
"Daniel P. Berrange"
 
Default package popularity ratings

On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 03:53:18PM -0400, seth vidal wrote:
> Hi,
> I got this bug assigned to yum the other day:
>
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=446836
>
> it's not really a yum item, yet, b/c yum can really only USE the data,
> not generate it.
>
> However, I don't know where it should go. Is anyone working on this sort
> of thing?

Isn't any package popularity rating going to be hugely skewed such that
the 'default install set' packages are basically always rated top, making
rankings of dubious value

Dan.
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Old 05-27-2008, 09:25 PM
Robin Norwood
 
Default package popularity ratings

On Tue, 27 May 2008 15:53:18 -0400
seth vidal <skvidal@fedoraproject.org> wrote:

> Hi,
> I got this bug assigned to yum the other day:
>
> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=446836
>
> it's not really a yum item, yet, b/c yum can really only USE the data,
> not generate it.
>
> However, I don't know where it should go. Is anyone working on this
> sort of thing?

I'm looking at something along these lines, but don't have anything to
show yet. I should have something for public consumption (text, not
code) this week.

-RN

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"The Sage does nothing, yet nothing remains undone."
-Lao Tzu, Te Tao Ching

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Old 05-27-2008, 09:31 PM
"David Nielsen"
 
Default package popularity ratings

2008/5/27 Robin Norwood <rnorwood@redhat.com>:

On Tue, 27 May 2008 15:53:18 -0400

seth vidal <skvidal@fedoraproject.org> wrote:



> Hi,

> *I got this bug assigned to yum the other day:

>

> https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=446836

>

> it's not really a yum item, yet, b/c yum can really only USE the data,

> not generate it.

>

> However, I don't know where it should go. Is anyone working on this

> sort of thing?
Doesn't mugshot collect this kind of data for it's application recommendations?


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Old 05-27-2008, 09:39 PM
seth vidal
 
Default package popularity ratings

On Tue, 2008-05-27 at 22:25 +0100, Daniel P. Berrange wrote:
> On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 03:53:18PM -0400, seth vidal wrote:
> > Hi,
> > I got this bug assigned to yum the other day:
> >
> > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=446836
> >
> > it's not really a yum item, yet, b/c yum can really only USE the data,
> > not generate it.
> >
> > However, I don't know where it should go. Is anyone working on this sort
> > of thing?
>
> Isn't any package popularity rating going to be hugely skewed such that
> the 'default install set' packages are basically always rated top, making
> rankings of dubious value
>

that's been my general impression which is why I was curious who wanted
to look at it since my overt bias against them is a bit discouraging

-sv


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Old 05-27-2008, 10:43 PM
"Jeff Spaleta"
 
Default package popularity ratings

On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 1:25 PM, Daniel P. Berrange <berrange@redhat.com> wrote:
> Isn't any package popularity rating going to be hugely skewed such that
> the 'default install set' packages are basically always rated top, making
> rankings of dubious value

I personally see zero value in a flat popularity rating.
I would see more value if we could find a way to correlate users such
that I could datamine the application preferences of people who were
already running systems similar to mine.

For example, XFCE users as a breed might prefer certain applications
which are not 'popular' in the general userbase, but were immensely
popular inside the XFCE subculture. Those shared preferences would
never show up in a flat popularity rating..a rating destined to be
dominated by FVWM2 users...so such a flat rating would never really be
what XFCE users would find value in.

But if we had a way to correlate a systems/usages/people with other
systems/usages/people which are mostly similar, then we have something
interesting as a metric...a metric that can support both common and
niche subgroups..based solely on individual usage cases or habits.
That way XCFE users, would end up correlating with other XCFE users
and would have the software 'popularity' ranking biased by that
correlation.

It would end up being dynamic, in that as your usage patterns changed,
how you would correlate with others would change as well without
anyone elses habits changing.

Centralization of 'popularity' is simply not flexible enough to be
interesting in the brave new world of the social network.

-jef"Did i mention that I hate social networking"spaleta

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Old 05-27-2008, 10:51 PM
"Stephen John Smoogen"
 
Default package popularity ratings

On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 4:43 PM, Jeff Spaleta <jspaleta@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 1:25 PM, Daniel P. Berrange <berrange@redhat.com> wrote:
>> Isn't any package popularity rating going to be hugely skewed such that
>> the 'default install set' packages are basically always rated top, making
>> rankings of dubious value
>
> I personally see zero value in a flat popularity rating.
> I would see more value if we could find a way to correlate users such
> that I could datamine the application preferences of people who were
> already running systems similar to mine.
>
> For example, XFCE users as a breed might prefer certain applications
> which are not 'popular' in the general userbase, but were immensely
> popular inside the XFCE subculture. Those shared preferences would
> never show up in a flat popularity rating..a rating destined to be
> dominated by FVWM2 users...so such a flat rating would never really be
> what XFCE users would find value in.
>

They would be better suited with:

People who installed Thunar also installed ... bsd-games and fortune_mod



> -jef"Did i mention that I hate social networking"spaleta
>

Stephen "Amazon is our salvation..." Smoogen



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Old 05-28-2008, 12:09 AM
"Daniel P. Berrange"
 
Default package popularity ratings

On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 05:39:51PM -0400, seth vidal wrote:
> On Tue, 2008-05-27 at 22:25 +0100, Daniel P. Berrange wrote:
> > On Tue, May 27, 2008 at 03:53:18PM -0400, seth vidal wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > > I got this bug assigned to yum the other day:
> > >
> > > https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=446836
> > >
> > > it's not really a yum item, yet, b/c yum can really only USE the data,
> > > not generate it.
> > >
> > > However, I don't know where it should go. Is anyone working on this sort
> > > of thing?
> >
> > Isn't any package popularity rating going to be hugely skewed such that
> > the 'default install set' packages are basically always rated top, making
> > rankings of dubious value
>
> that's been my general impression which is why I was curious who wanted
> to look at it since my overt bias against them is a bit discouraging

I think a more useful metric would be a popularity list based on which
programs are *run*. You'd obviously have to exclude things that are
typically batch-run/scripted - eg bash would dominate. Count any binary
run with a .desktop file perhaps, although that'd exclude mutt and emacs.
IIRC mugshot/gnome live is already able to track this kind of metric

Dan.
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Old 05-28-2008, 06:43 AM
pingou
 
Default package popularity ratings

seth vidal wrote:

Hi,
I got this bug assigned to yum the other day:

https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=446836

it's not really a yum item, yet, b/c yum can really only USE the data,
not generate it.

However, I don't know where it should go. Is anyone working on this sort
of thing?



I do not think that user would be that much interesting in
having/knowing the top 1000 software used...
By doing this that would influence them, and oriented them to the most
used one... better stay in another famous and world well known
proprietary software that almost every one use...


But I do think that I would like to have this information for the
package I maintain !
Nowadays as packager the only feed back that told me that my packages
are used is basically bugzilla, which mean that if I have packaged a
good software that runs without problem I have no idea whether I have
worked for myself or if other people are actually using it.


In brief:
* I do not want/need these information for all the packages as a user
* I want these information for my packages as I am a packager.

Hope it makes sense

Regards,
Pierre

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