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Old 05-24-2008, 07:33 PM
Stewart Adam
 
Default Thoughts on a hardware-specific bugzilla?

Hi,

I've been working out a few hardware bugs on a new laptop lately, and I
thought it would be interesting to create a specific category/product in
the current bugzilla for hardware bugs. Various components could be
listed as the different hardware categories (wifi, screen/backlight,
trackpad, keyboard, speakers, etc) and this way hardware issues could be
tracked separately from software bugs. Hopefully, this would help
hardware bugs be resolved faster and it would be a good step forward for
getting more computers to work out of the box on a standard Fedora
install. Do you think it's worth it?

(Just to clarify, by "hardware bugs" I mean things like missing device
IDs from kernel source files, suspend quirks, display backlight control,
missing sound, or a component not being detected at all. Devices
malfunctioning in Linux due to a driver bug would fall under software
bugs IMO)

Stewart

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Old 05-24-2008, 09:28 PM
Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams
 
Default Thoughts on a hardware-specific bugzilla?

On Sat, 2008-05-24 at 15:33 -0400, Stewart Adam wrote:
> I've been working out a few hardware bugs on a new laptop lately, and I
> thought it would be interesting to create a specific category/product in
> the current bugzilla for hardware bugs. Various components could be
> listed as the different hardware categories (wifi, screen/backlight,
> trackpad, keyboard, speakers, etc) and this way hardware issues could be
> tracked separately from software bugs. Hopefully, this would help
> hardware bugs be resolved faster and it would be a good step forward for
> getting more computers to work out of the box on a standard Fedora
> install. Do you think it's worth it?

I'm wondering if this discussion doesn't belong on the
cross-distribution list.

http://lists.freedesktop.org/mailman/listinfo/distributions
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PLEASE don't CC me; I'm already subscribed
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Old 05-26-2008, 12:10 PM
David Timms
 
Default Thoughts on a hardware-specific bugzilla?

Ignacio Vazquez-Abrams wrote:

On Sat, 2008-05-24 at 15:33 -0400, Stewart Adam wrote:

I've been working out a few hardware bugs on a new laptop lately, and I
thought it would be interesting to create a specific category/product in
the current bugzilla for hardware bugs. Various components could be
listed as the different hardware categories (wifi, screen/backlight,
trackpad, keyboard, speakers, etc) and this way hardware issues could be
tracked separately from software bugs. Hopefully, this would help
hardware bugs
To me they would be in firmware, and non-fixable; unless the
manufacturer is using loadable firmware to make the device usable. But
that is really software in any case...



be resolved faster and it would be a good step forward for
getting more computers to work out of the box on a standard Fedora
install. Do you think it's worth it?


I'm wondering if this discussion doesn't belong on the
cross-distribution list.

Is that because the hw issues tends to hit all distros ?

If there was such a thing, it would be good to base of or link to the
smolt hardware database. You have probably seen the bit where you can
indicate if your machine's bits work out of the box, with non-free
driver, with extra config etc.


For the problem ones, the smolt entry can be used to create a wiki entry
where any info {eg workaround, manual load, specific configs can be
stored.}. bug tracking pointers could go in here as well.


There is also a more manual hw database on:
http://www.linuxquestions.org/hcl/

The think I like about smolt is that the submission of your machine's
bit's IDs is automatic, along with some quick buttons to indicate how
well the item worked. It might be nice for a machine side gui app to
open your machine's smolt submission, rather than having to know the
smoltX CLI stuff.


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Old 05-26-2008, 12:56 PM
Bastien Nocera
 
Default Thoughts on a hardware-specific bugzilla?

On Sat, 2008-05-24 at 15:33 -0400, Stewart Adam wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I've been working out a few hardware bugs on a new laptop lately, and I
> thought it would be interesting to create a specific category/product in
> the current bugzilla for hardware bugs. Various components could be
> listed as the different hardware categories (wifi, screen/backlight,
> trackpad, keyboard, speakers, etc) and this way hardware issues could be
> tracked separately from software bugs. Hopefully, this would help
> hardware bugs be resolved faster and it would be a good step forward for
> getting more computers to work out of the box on a standard Fedora
> install. Do you think it's worth it?

We're pretty good at pushing things upstream, so maybe you're better off
filing bugs directly in the Fedora bugzillas.

I used a tracker in a product that's only available internally to track
issues with my Dell Latitude D420[1] when I got it, but it wasn't very
useful. You might be better off:
- Creating a wiki page for it
- Telling sites like tuxmobile about it
- and making sure all the issues get filed (maybe with work-arounds in
the wiki page itself)

The main point is that all those laptops/machines should work
out-of-the-box, so anything that we can do in Fedora to make that better
should be taken seriously.

I remember working on various issues for an older Sony Vaio laptop
(S1XP) that didn't work that well with FC2. By the time for FC4,
everything on it was working out-of-the-box.

Note that Red Hat have a number of people interested in making this work
well (hey Richard and Matthew!), so all the fixes, would be upstreamed
in due time. It also makes it easier for us to move problems between
components (is the backlight not working a kernel, a hal, a hal-info, or
an Xorg driver problem?).

> (Just to clarify, by "hardware bugs" I mean things like missing device
> IDs from kernel source files, suspend quirks, display backlight control,
> missing sound, or a component not being detected at all. Devices
> malfunctioning in Linux due to a driver bug would fall under software
> bugs IMO)

Wiki pages with links to bugs is the way to go, and allows us to update
easily, and discuss problems related to the device.

[1]: For that laptop, we got the backlight working in HAL, Rfkill
support in HAL as well, hints in hal-info for the WWAN driver, and a lot
of device driver updates. All of which have been upstreamed.

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