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Old 05-20-2008, 05:18 PM
Matthias Clasen
 
Default getting rid of vendor prefixes for desktop files

I'd like to discuss the idea of getting rid of vendor prefixes for
desktop files in Fedora. Right now, we install desktop files with a
mixture of vendor prefixes: gnome-, fedora-, redhat-, nothing.

These prefixes really add no value, and cause actual breakage, since
Fedora is (afaik) the only distro adding vendor prefixes, so we are the
ones that get bitten by upstream changes that don't take vendor prefixes
into account.

The recent breakage that made me write this mail is that the new
gnome-session in rawhide has a list of mandatory session components
stored in gconf, and one of these components was 'nautilus', so it went
looking for nautilus.desktop - which doesn't exist, since we ship
gnome-nautilus.desktop.

Another problem caused by these prefixes is that overlaying a self-built
gnome, e.g. a jhbuild tree on top of a fedora installation gives you
everything doubled in the menus. Once with a vendor prefix, and once
without, instead of the indended effect of the self built tree hiding
the installed desktop files.

Thus, I'd like to propose that we change the packaging guidelines to
stop recommending the addition of a vendor prefix, and remove existing
vendor prefixes in F10. This will cause a mild one-time pain for
existing users with customized menus. We can probably discuss ways to
avoid that.

Comments ?


Matthias

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Old 05-20-2008, 06:15 PM
Rex Dieter
 
Default getting rid of vendor prefixes for desktop files

Matthias Clasen wrote:

> Thus, I'd like to propose that we change the packaging guidelines to
> stop recommending the addition of a vendor prefix, and remove existing
> vendor prefixes in F10. This will cause a mild one-time pain for
> existing users with customized menus. We can probably discuss ways to
> avoid that.
>
> Comments ?

I agree with the sentiment, but, keep in mind that the current guidelines
don't go so far as to mandate vendor prefixes and that there are exceptions
to every rule.

-- Rex

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Old 05-20-2008, 07:50 PM
Toshio Kuratomi
 
Default getting rid of vendor prefixes for desktop files

Rex Dieter wrote:

Matthias Clasen wrote:


Thus, I'd like to propose that we change the packaging guidelines to
stop recommending the addition of a vendor prefix, and remove existing
vendor prefixes in F10. This will cause a mild one-time pain for
existing users with customized menus. We can probably discuss ways to
avoid that.

Comments ?


I agree with the sentiment, but, keep in mind that the current guidelines
don't go so far as to mandate vendor prefixes and that there are exceptions
to every rule.



Current Guidelines:
'
{{{ Three examples, two of which show --vendor="<vendor_id>", one of
which shows --vendor="" }}}


* If upstream uses <vendor_id>, leave it intact, otherwise use fedora
as <vendor_id>.
* It is important that vendor_id stay constant for the life of a
package.
This is mostly for the sake of menu-editing (which bases off of
.desktop file/path names).

'

So this is confusing as to whether --vendor is mandatory or optional. I
can't think of a reason that we'd want to keep recommending --vendor if
both you and Rex are in favor of dropping it and we can figure out some
way to mitigate the customized menu issue.


-Toshio

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Old 05-21-2008, 02:04 AM
"Callum Lerwick"
 
Default getting rid of vendor prefixes for desktop files

On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 2:50 PM, Toshio Kuratomi <a.badger@gmail.com> wrote:

*
* It is important that vendor_id stay constant for the life of a package.

*This is mostly for the sake of menu-editing (which bases off of .desktop file/path names).

'



So this is confusing as to whether --vendor is mandatory or optional. *I can't think of a reason that we'd want to keep recommending --vendor if both you and Rex are in favor of dropping it and we can figure out some way to mitigate the customized menu issue.

One thing I don't understand is how you reconcile this with the actually fairly common occurrence of the upstream vendor changing hands? Say if FooCo has a piece of software called Fooinator, and FooCo goes out of business or otherwise lets Fooinator go stale, and a community project forks it and continues development under the same name. Or maybe FooCo gets bought by BarCo. Does the filename get stuck as fooco-fooinator.desktop forever? Seems to me the simple answer is to just drop the seemingly useless notion of vendor_id. :P


What is the filename getting used for? Why are we keying on it? Something smells broken here.

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Old 05-21-2008, 02:21 AM
Matthias Clasen
 
Default getting rid of vendor prefixes for desktop files

On Tue, 2008-05-20 at 21:04 -0500, Callum Lerwick wrote:

> Seems to me the simple answer is to just drop the seemingly useless
> notion of vendor_id. :P

Yes, vendor id turned out to just be a bad idea.

> What is the filename getting used for? Why are we keying on it?
> Something smells broken here.

Using desktop files as application database/registry is broken in a lot
of ways. But for better or worse, this is where we are...

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Old 05-21-2008, 07:31 AM
Michael Schwendt
 
Default getting rid of vendor prefixes for desktop files

On Tue, 20 May 2008 13:18:43 -0400, Matthias Clasen wrote:

> I'd like to discuss the idea of getting rid of vendor prefixes for
> desktop files in Fedora. Right now, we install desktop files with a
> mixture of vendor prefixes: gnome-, fedora-, redhat-, nothing.
>
> These prefixes really add no value, and cause actual breakage, since
> Fedora is (afaik) the only distro adding vendor prefixes, so we are the
> ones that get bitten by upstream changes that don't take vendor prefixes
> into account.
>
> The recent breakage that made me write this mail is that the new
> gnome-session in rawhide has a list of mandatory session components
> stored in gconf, and one of these components was 'nautilus', so it went
> looking for nautilus.desktop - which doesn't exist, since we ship
> gnome-nautilus.desktop.
>
> Another problem caused by these prefixes is that overlaying a self-built
> gnome, e.g. a jhbuild tree on top of a fedora installation gives you
> everything doubled in the menus. Once with a vendor prefix, and once
> without, instead of the indended effect of the self built tree hiding
> the installed desktop files.
>
> Thus, I'd like to propose that we change the packaging guidelines to
> stop recommending the addition of a vendor prefix, and remove existing
> vendor prefixes in F10. This will cause a mild one-time pain for
> existing users with customized menus. We can probably discuss ways to
> avoid that.
>
> Comments ?

What have you planned to avoid messing up user's panel and menu?

For example, emacs-22.2-4.fc9 suddenly decided to ship emacs.desktop
instead of the earlier gnu-emacs.desktop. This invalidated the GConf
setting for my customised panel where I had dragged'n'dropped the
emacs menu entry:

panel/objects/object_3/%gconf.xml: <stringvalue>/usr/share/applications/gnu-emacs.desktop</stringvalue>

Instead of the application icon it shows a blank area now.

It's not the first time this has happend with a package. And it really
asks for a stable vendor prefix (even if empty). Else this is much too
fragile during upgrades and updates if packagers and upstream can
change the vendor prefix whenever they like.

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