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Old 05-14-2008, 12:03 PM
Andreas Nilsson
 
Default Mist and gnome-icon-theme plans for GNOME 2.24/Fedora 10

Hi all!
I thought I should share some of the plans for Mist and gnome-icon-theme
(witch makes up for a big porportion of the icons used on Fedora).


• King Size - Even though 48x48 px canvas currently works well on the
desktop for most people, there is a tendency to move towards higher
resolution screens. There are also emerging projects such as GnomeDO and
Elisa that require larger sized icons. Therefore we recently started
experimenting with Large sized (256x256) icons for the most common
icons. Lapo Calamandrei and Jakub Steiner will be taking care of the
bits in gnome-icon-theme and I'll be fixing the ones in Mist. Help is
greatly needed in this area.
• Dropping icon-naming-utils - We're looking into dropping the
dependency on icon-naming-utils sometime in the foreseeable future. This
requires changes to the applications to use icon-naming-spec names,
therefore icon-naming-utils is disabled during the unstable release
(2.23) of GNOME so we can hunt those issues down.
• Moving to one canvas per icon - We want to move all the sizes of a
icon into one canvas and have a script split them up during installation
of the theme to their respective folders. This will hopefully make the
icons easier to maintain.
• Emblems - A lot of the emblems are still using the old GNOME style and
only comes in one size. Kalle Persson is working on updated emblems.
• As usual we will also fix icon bugs in individual applications. Last
cycle we did a lot of work on Firefox3, Evolution and Banshee as well as
a lot of other applications. We're currently looking into Seahorse,
Hugin, Abiword and whatever pops up along the road.


Help is always needed and highly appreciated ,especially with tracking
down and fixing ugly application in the menus. You can catch me in
#fedora-art most of the time if you have any questions.

- Andreas

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Old 05-14-2008, 12:23 PM
Nicu Buculei
 
Default Mist and gnome-icon-theme plans for GNOME 2.24/Fedora 10

Andreas Nilsson wrote:


• King Size - Even though 48x48 px canvas currently works well on the
desktop for most people, there is a tendency to move towards higher
resolution screens. There are also emerging projects such as GnomeDO and
Elisa that require larger sized icons. Therefore we recently started
experimenting with Large sized (256x256) icons for the most common
icons. Lapo Calamandrei and Jakub Steiner will be taking care of the
bits in gnome-icon-theme and I'll be fixing the ones in Mist. Help is
greatly needed in this area.


This raises an interesting question about the default icon set in Fedora 10.

Lately Echo development gained some momentum, so maybe we should put our
collective asses at work and come with a plan: try to get Echo as
default in F10, so focus on it or we will rely again on Mist and help
with those large sized icons (certainly, people can work on both, all is
about the focus).


--
nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com
Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/
Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org
my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro

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Old 05-14-2008, 01:18 PM
Martin Sourada
 
Default Mist and gnome-icon-theme plans for GNOME 2.24/Fedora 10

On Wed, 2008-05-14 at 15:23 +0300, Nicu Buculei wrote:
> Andreas Nilsson wrote:
> >
> > • King Size - Even though 48x48 px canvas currently works well on the
> > desktop for most people, there is a tendency to move towards higher
> > resolution screens. There are also emerging projects such as GnomeDO and
> > Elisa that require larger sized icons. Therefore we recently started
> > experimenting with Large sized (256x256) icons for the most common
> > icons. Lapo Calamandrei and Jakub Steiner will be taking care of the
> > bits in gnome-icon-theme and I'll be fixing the ones in Mist. Help is
> > greatly needed in this area.
>
> This raises an interesting question about the default icon set in Fedora 10.
>
> Lately Echo development gained some momentum, so maybe we should put our
> collective asses at work and come with a plan: try to get Echo as
> default in F10, so focus on it or we will rely again on Mist and help
> with those large sized icons (certainly, people can work on both, all is
> about the focus).
>

Well, some of the issues Andreas mentioned are same for Echo as for
gnome-icon-theme, so the Echo devs can help with it as well. What I have
on mind is especially correct usage of icons as per icon naming specs.

Also would be nice if we could "fix" applications to use generic icons
instead of their own more, so that choosing different than
gnome-icon-theme will not result in inconsistent looking desktop, e.g.
pidgin, gajim, empathy could use emotes from the icon themes instead of
their own, etc. I noticed many of the app specific icons are handled by
the gnome-icon-theme people as well, so if we could move as much icons
as possible from app specific places to /usr/share/icons/hicolor and fix
apps to look up for them in the traditional icon theme places it would
greatly help other icon theme developers.

As for me, I hope we can get Echo in for Fedora 10.

Martin
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Old 05-14-2008, 06:32 PM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default Mist and gnome-icon-theme plans for GNOME 2.24/Fedora 10

Nicu Buculei wrote:

Andreas Nilsson wrote:


• King Size - Even though 48x48 px canvas currently works well on the
desktop for most people, there is a tendency to move towards higher
resolution screens. There are also emerging projects such as GnomeDO
and Elisa that require larger sized icons. Therefore we recently
started experimenting with Large sized (256x256) icons for the most
common icons. Lapo Calamandrei and Jakub Steiner will be taking care
of the bits in gnome-icon-theme and I'll be fixing the ones in Mist.
Help is greatly needed in this area.


This raises an interesting question about the default icon set in Fedora
10.


Yeah. I think we should have that as a fixed target or make a final
decision otherwise on the future icon set.


Rahul

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Old 05-18-2008, 11:50 AM
Andreas Nilsson
 
Default Mist and gnome-icon-theme plans for GNOME 2.24/Fedora 10

Martin Sourada wrote:

On Wed, 2008-05-14 at 15:23 +0300, Nicu Buculei wrote:


Andreas Nilsson wrote:

• King Size - Even though 48x48 px canvas currently works well on the
desktop for most people, there is a tendency to move towards higher
resolution screens. There are also emerging projects such as GnomeDO and
Elisa that require larger sized icons. Therefore we recently started
experimenting with Large sized (256x256) icons for the most common
icons. Lapo Calamandrei and Jakub Steiner will be taking care of the
bits in gnome-icon-theme and I'll be fixing the ones in Mist. Help is
greatly needed in this area.


This raises an interesting question about the default icon set in Fedora 10.

Lately Echo development gained some momentum, so maybe we should put our
collective asses at work and come with a plan: try to get Echo as
default in F10, so focus on it or we will rely again on Mist and help
with those large sized icons (certainly, people can work on both, all is
about the focus).





Well, some of the issues Andreas mentioned are same for Echo as for
gnome-icon-theme, so the Echo devs can help with it as well. What I have
on mind is especially correct usage of icons as per icon naming specs.


Also would be nice if we could "fix" applications to use generic icons
instead of their own more, so that choosing different than
gnome-icon-theme will not result in inconsistent looking desktop, e.g.
pidgin, gajim, empathy could use emotes from the icon themes instead of
their own, etc. I noticed many of the app specific icons are handled by
the gnome-icon-theme people as well, so if we could move as much icons
as possible from app specific places to /usr/share/icons/hicolor and fix
apps to look up for them in the traditional icon theme places it would
greatly help other icon theme developers.

As for me, I hope we can get Echo in for Fedora 10.

Martin

Hylke Bons [1] is the guy responsible for the emotes icons in Pidgin and
I could talk to the Gossip people about the issue.


1. http://bomahy.nl/hylke/blog/
- Andreas

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Old 05-18-2008, 12:31 PM
Andreas Nilsson
 
Default Mist and gnome-icon-theme plans for GNOME 2.24/Fedora 10

Nicu Buculei wrote:

Andreas Nilsson wrote:


• King Size - Even though 48x48 px canvas currently works well on the
desktop for most people, there is a tendency to move towards higher
resolution screens. There are also emerging projects such as GnomeDO
and Elisa that require larger sized icons. Therefore we recently
started experimenting with Large sized (256x256) icons for the most
common icons. Lapo Calamandrei and Jakub Steiner will be taking care
of the bits in gnome-icon-theme and I'll be fixing the ones in Mist.
Help is greatly needed in this area.


This raises an interesting question about the default icon set in
Fedora 10.


Lately Echo development gained some momentum, so maybe we should put
our collective asses at work and come with a plan: try to get Echo as
default in F10, so focus on it or we will rely again on Mist and help
with those large sized icons (certainly, people can work on both, all
is about the focus).


What are the outstanding issues with Mist/gnome-icon-theme that makes it
a target for replacement?
The application coverage is pretty good (full coverage in key
applications such as Firefox, Rhythmbox, Pidgin, Gimp, OpenOffice etc.)
and looks good together with the rest of the Fedora desktop elements.
The development is largely done upstream in GNOME (bugzilla and IRC
mostly), so therefore the development might seem a bit silent to the
Fedora community. Let me know if there is any way I can improve that.

- Andreas

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Old 05-18-2008, 12:53 PM
Martin Sourada
 
Default Mist and gnome-icon-theme plans for GNOME 2.24/Fedora 10

On Sun, 2008-05-18 at 14:31 +0200, Andreas Nilsson wrote:
> What are the outstanding issues with Mist/gnome-icon-theme that makes it
> a target for replacement?
> The application coverage is pretty good (full coverage in key
> applications such as Firefox, Rhythmbox, Pidgin, Gimp, OpenOffice etc.)
> and looks good together with the rest of the Fedora desktop elements.
> The development is largely done upstream in GNOME (bugzilla and IRC
> mostly), so therefore the development might seem a bit silent to the
> Fedora community. Let me know if there is any way I can improve that.
> - Andreas
>

None, there just seems to be people like me or Luya who thinks having
our own icon set would be good to have in Fedora and are willing to work
on it. And due to the "work with upstream" nature of Fedora it could
also help to pave way for other icon theme developers (we won't patch
applications to hardcode Echo icons instead of their own, rather work
with the devs to fix their applications so they would use icons from
selected icon theme, if available). I believe in this area it is desired
to join forces with Mist/gnome-icon-theme/Tango/Oxygen developers

Martin
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Old 05-19-2008, 07:43 PM
Andreas Nilsson
 
Default Mist and gnome-icon-theme plans for GNOME 2.24/Fedora 10

Martin Sourada wrote:

On Sun, 2008-05-18 at 14:31 +0200, Andreas Nilsson wrote:

What are the outstanding issues with Mist/gnome-icon-theme that makes it
a target for replacement?
The application coverage is pretty good (full coverage in key
applications such as Firefox, Rhythmbox, Pidgin, Gimp, OpenOffice etc.)
and looks good together with the rest of the Fedora desktop elements.
The development is largely done upstream in GNOME (bugzilla and IRC
mostly), so therefore the development might seem a bit silent to the
Fedora community. Let me know if there is any way I can improve that.

- Andreas




None, there just seems to be people like me or Luya who thinks having
our own icon set would be good to have in Fedora and are willing to work
on it. And due to the "work with upstream" nature of Fedora it could
also help to pave way for other icon theme developers (we won't patch
applications to hardcode Echo icons instead of their own, rather work
with the devs to fix their applications so they would use icons from
selected icon theme, if available). I believe in this area it is desired
to join forces with Mist/gnome-icon-theme/Tango/Oxygen developers

Martin

Fewer and fewer icons in applications are actually hardcoded, as they
need to work with HighContrast, even though there are still some who
needs to be fixed. See "Known Applications" on
http://live.gnome.org/ThemableAppSpecificIcons
With my upstream hat on, I can say that we're really happy for all the
help we can get in this area. Both with icons and code for apps to not
hardcode their icons.


Firefox and Openoffice are of course exceptions, as they rely heavily on
their own theming infrastructure, even though we did a lot of work on
using GTK+ stock items in as many places as possible in Firefox3.

- Andreas

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Old 05-19-2008, 09:47 PM
Martin Sourada
 
Default Mist and gnome-icon-theme plans for GNOME 2.24/Fedora 10

On Mon, 2008-05-19 at 21:43 +0200, Andreas Nilsson wrote:
> Fewer and fewer icons in applications are actually hardcoded, as they
> need to work with HighContrast, even though there are still some who
> needs to be fixed. See "Known Applications" on
> http://live.gnome.org/ThemableAppSpecificIcons
> With my upstream hat on, I can say that we're really happy for all the
> help we can get in this area. Both with icons and code for apps to not
> hardcode their icons.
>
> Firefox and Openoffice are of course exceptions, as they rely heavily on
> their own theming infrastructure, even though we did a lot of work on
> using GTK+ stock items in as many places as possible in Firefox3.
> - Andreas
>
That's great. We make sure that when we experience such an issue, we'll
help as much as possible to solve it.

As a side note, I noticed gnome-power-manager is listed among those that
work well, and last time I checked, it used gpm-primary-xyz.png naming
scheme for the battery indication icons. I think, in regard to other
power managers, if there are any, it would make sense to at least remove
the "gpm" part; and as a matter of fact, two of these battery states are
already listed in the icon-naming-specs:

battery-caution The icon used when the battery is below 40%.
battery-low The icon used when the battery is below 20%.

I think it would make sense to use those instead of gpm-primary-020 and
gpm-primary-040 and extend it to these as well:

battery-empty The icon used when the battery is (nearly) empty.
battery-medium The icon used when the battery is bellow 60%.
battery-high The icon used when the battery is bellow 80%.
battery-full The icon used when the battery is bellow 100%.

Also, the same names with -charging suffix for batteries that are
charging and perhaps as an extra icons same names with ups-, phone- or
whatever-other-device-with-battery- prefix...

Any thoughts on this?

Martin
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Old 05-22-2008, 02:11 PM
Andreas Nilsson
 
Default Mist and gnome-icon-theme plans for GNOME 2.24/Fedora 10

Martin Sourada wrote:

On Mon, 2008-05-19 at 21:43 +0200, Andreas Nilsson wrote:

Fewer and fewer icons in applications are actually hardcoded, as they
need to work with HighContrast, even though there are still some who
needs to be fixed. See "Known Applications" on
http://live.gnome.org/ThemableAppSpecificIcons
With my upstream hat on, I can say that we're really happy for all the
help we can get in this area. Both with icons and code for apps to not
hardcode their icons.


Firefox and Openoffice are of course exceptions, as they rely heavily on
their own theming infrastructure, even though we did a lot of work on
using GTK+ stock items in as many places as possible in Firefox3.

- Andreas



That's great. We make sure that when we experience such an issue, we'll
help as much as possible to solve it.

As a side note, I noticed gnome-power-manager is listed among those that
work well, and last time I checked, it used gpm-primary-xyz.png naming
scheme for the battery indication icons. I think, in regard to other
power managers, if there are any, it would make sense to at least remove
the "gpm" part; and as a matter of fact, two of these battery states are
already listed in the icon-naming-specs:

battery-caution The icon used when the battery is below 40%.
battery-low The icon used when the battery is below 20%.

I think it would make sense to use those instead of gpm-primary-020 and
gpm-primary-040 and extend it to these as well:

battery-empty The icon used when the battery is (nearly) empty.
battery-medium The icon used when the battery is bellow 60%.
battery-high The icon used when the battery is bellow 80%.
battery-full The icon used when the battery is bellow 100%.

Also, the same names with -charging suffix for batteries that are
charging and perhaps as an extra icons same names with ups-, phone- or
whatever-other-device-with-battery- prefix...

Any thoughts on this?

Indeed. battery-low and caution isn't really used by any application, as
Richard likes to have a lot of battery states, so we shipped
power-manager with all the states instead. Not sure what the KDE power
manager use.

I'll bring it up with Rodney, who's maintaining the naming-spec.
- Andreas

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