FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
» Video Reviews

» Linux Archive

Linux-archive is a website aiming to archive linux email lists and to make them easily accessible for linux users/developers.


» Sponsor

» Partners

» Sponsor


 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
 
Old 05-13-2008, 01:01 PM
Casey Dahlin
 
Default JahShaka

Jeff Spaleta wrote:

Example:
http://www.pitivi.org/wiki/Main_Page




Let me chime in for a second. I've been spending some time on looking
at the options for a while now. Pitivi is THE solution that Fedora
needs to support. Its feature-set is minimal at the moment but it is
workable out-of-the-box when it comes to theora and raw dv editting.
I've been working towards hosting a miro channel for Fedora and a set
of short tutorials on how to make use of pitivi. Sadly i just didnt
get it done before F9 release. I haven't been talking about it much
because i wanted to surprise everyone...but my freetime didn't live up
to the deadline.

What this project really needs to do is find a way to drive more
effort into pitivi, in terms of creating really good plugins that w
can use out of the box. The parts of gstreamer that we can ship
includes so very interesting things like video effects that pitivi
could use... cheese uses them. Pitivi just needs developer love and
its this projects best interest to try to find that love.

-jef


Pitivi is nice for little home movies, but it is NOT an industrial
strength NLE and I think it would do more harm to itself than good if it
tried to be. It will keep Joe User very happy, but not the prosumer
crowd. And trying to give Cinelerra to those people is just
embarrassing. Its about as stable as win98 and kludgey as hell.


--CJD

--
fedora-devel-list mailing list
fedora-devel-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
 
Old 05-13-2008, 01:39 PM
Nicu Buculei
 
Default JahShaka

Casey Dahlin wrote:
Pitivi is nice for little home movies, but it is NOT an industrial
strength NLE and I think it would do more harm to itself than good if it
tried to be. It will keep Joe User very happy, but not the prosumer


But we are not allowed (by law) to include something that, according to
your definition, will make the prosumer crowd happy. What to do?


crowd. And trying to give Cinelerra to those people is just
embarrassing. Its about as stable as win98 and kludgey as hell.


Well, in my experience Cinelerra is worse than Win98, maybe like Windows
Me But, again, due to the codecs, Cinelerra is not included in Fedora
either...


You may consider packaging JahShaka at Livna/Rpmfusion. Ptitivi in
Fedora proper for everyone and JahShaka in Livna for those who are
allowed by local law.


--
nicu :: http://nicubunu.ro :: http://nicubunu.blogspot.com
Cool Fedora wallpapers: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro/wallpapers/
Open Clip Art Library: http://www.openclipart.org
my Fedora stuff: http://fedora.nicubunu.ro

--
fedora-devel-list mailing list
fedora-devel-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
 
Old 05-13-2008, 01:49 PM
Casey Dahlin
 
Default JahShaka

Nicu Buculei wrote:

Casey Dahlin wrote:
Pitivi is nice for little home movies, but it is NOT an industrial
strength NLE and I think it would do more harm to itself than good if
it tried to be. It will keep Joe User very happy, but not the prosumer


But we are not allowed (by law) to include something that, according
to your definition, will make the prosumer crowd happy. What to do?




This is in practice. The key issue here is the nature of the interface
and kinds of features exposed, not the codecs. It just so happens that
all the good prosumer options are a bit less than patent-friendly, its
not because it must be that way.


crowd. And trying to give Cinelerra to those people is just
embarrassing. Its about as stable as win98 and kludgey as hell.


Well, in my experience Cinelerra is worse than Win98, maybe like
Windows Me But, again, due to the codecs, Cinelerra is not included
in Fedora either...


You may consider packaging JahShaka at Livna/Rpmfusion. Ptitivi in
Fedora proper for everyone and JahShaka in Livna for those who are
allowed by local law.



Or I could hike upstream and make JahShaka use gstreamer.... hmm....

--CJD

--
fedora-devel-list mailing list
fedora-devel-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
 
Old 05-13-2008, 03:23 PM
"Jeff Spaleta"
 
Default JahShaka

On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 5:01 AM, Casey Dahlin <cjdahlin@ncsu.edu> wrote:
> Pitivi is nice for little home movies, but it is NOT an industrial strength
> NLE and I think it would do more harm to itself than good if it tried to be.
> It will keep Joe User very happy, but not the prosumer crowd. And trying to
> give Cinelerra to those people is just embarrassing. Its about as stable as
> win98 and kludgey as hell.

If wishes were fishes. Right now.. pitivi what we can ship. And I
plan to beat the drum quite loudly about its potential as a piece of
technology that this project can make use of to produce video by and
for this community. Regardless of the quality of its featureset, it is
what we have. I'm tired of holding my breath waiting for something
else to come along that isn't mired the codec problem.

If pitivi never "grows up" so what.... nothing says that its interface
can't be forked and features can't be added over what is fundamentally
the only framework we can ship.

I've known about JahShaka for over a year now, If you can get them to
dig in and switch to a gstreamer framework that does NOT directly
depend on gstreamer-ffmpeg for most if not all of its magic.. more
power to you.

It's not just about switching to gstreamer. You can end up with an
application that uses gstreamer but still relies on gstreamer-ffmpeg
or other forbidden gstreamer plugins for all the useful features and
STILL not have an application that we can ship. The real problem is
that ffmpeg conglomerates a lot of useful things together, beyond just
the codec stuff that we can't touch. So you reach for ffmpeg through
gstreamer for deinterlace support or best effort raw dv footage
handling and you are back to where you started. It's much more
complicated than just moving to gstreamer.

I think it's going to be much easier to start from an ffmpeg clean
implementation of a video editor like pitivi and build on it, even if
it ends up being a fork. Because everything else that I have seen
ultimately relies on ffmpeg for important functionality and that
simply has to stop or we can't ship it.

-jef

--
fedora-devel-list mailing list
fedora-devel-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
 
Old 05-13-2008, 05:14 PM
Casey Dahlin
 
Default JahShaka

Jeff Spaleta wrote:

On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 5:01 AM, Casey Dahlin <cjdahlin@ncsu.edu> wrote:


Pitivi is nice for little home movies, but it is NOT an industrial strength
NLE and I think it would do more harm to itself than good if it tried to be.
It will keep Joe User very happy, but not the prosumer crowd. And trying to
give Cinelerra to those people is just embarrassing. Its about as stable as
win98 and kludgey as hell.



If wishes were fishes. Right now.. pitivi what we can ship. And I
plan to beat the drum quite loudly about its potential as a piece of
technology that this project can make use of to produce video by and
for this community. Regardless of the quality of its featureset, it is
what we have. I'm tired of holding my breath waiting for something
else to come along that isn't mired the codec problem.

If pitivi never "grows up" so what.... nothing says that its interface
can't be forked and features can't be added over what is fundamentally
the only framework we can ship.

I've known about JahShaka for over a year now, If you can get them to
dig in and switch to a gstreamer framework that does NOT directly
depend on gstreamer-ffmpeg for most if not all of its magic.. more
power to you.

It's not just about switching to gstreamer. You can end up with an
application that uses gstreamer but still relies on gstreamer-ffmpeg
or other forbidden gstreamer plugins for all the useful features and
STILL not have an application that we can ship. The real problem is
that ffmpeg conglomerates a lot of useful things together, beyond just
the codec stuff that we can't touch. So you reach for ffmpeg through
gstreamer for deinterlace support or best effort raw dv footage
handling and you are back to where you started. It's much more
complicated than just moving to gstreamer.

I think it's going to be much easier to start from an ffmpeg clean
implementation of a video editor like pitivi and build on it, even if
it ends up being a fork. Because everything else that I have seen
ultimately relies on ffmpeg for important functionality and that
simply has to stop or we can't ship it.

-jef


Don't misunderstand me, pitivi is a great little editor that should
serve a lot of needs very well, including the ones of this project which
you mentioned.


Directly adding the necessary features to pitivi would just spoil it. It
would lose touch with the fast and easy crowd it serves so well now and
feel awkward and cobbled together for the high-end folk. A fork could do
well though, although the changes would be very deep.


Linux has already seen lots of popularity from places like Disney, and
we would do well to feed those kinds of relationships.


--CJD

--
fedora-devel-list mailing list
fedora-devel-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
 
Old 05-13-2008, 05:23 PM
"Jeff Spaleta"
 
Default JahShaka

On Tue, May 13, 2008 at 9:14 AM, Casey Dahlin <cjdahlin@ncsu.edu> wrote:
> Linux has already seen lots of popularity from places like Disney, and we
> would do well to feed those kinds of relationships.


I would be more than happy to have a high level discussion with
aggressive open source users in the area of video and animation. If
you know people that the Fedora Board should be having a conversation
with... let me know.

This is exactly the community that needs to get involved and
contribute a clean solution that we can ship, for their own needs.
But if they don't value a fully open solution, and are okay with the
fractured nature of a/v due to the patent issues in the space, then
its going to be harder to convince them involved and working on the
problem we know needs to be solved.

-jef

--
fedora-devel-list mailing list
fedora-devel-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
 
Old 05-13-2008, 05:33 PM
Brendan Conoboy
 
Default JahShaka

Jeff Spaleta wrote:

This is exactly the community that needs to get involved and
contribute a clean solution that we can ship, for their own needs.
But if they don't value a fully open solution, and are okay with the
fractured nature of a/v due to the patent issues in the space, then
its going to be harder to convince them involved and working on the
problem we know needs to be solved.


Some of the community members who support Cinelerra CV (IE, not Heroine
Virtual) have recently taken an initiative to rewrite Cinelerra using
modern widgets. If people in the Fedora community are interested in a
ground-up high-end editor, this is a good time to get involved before
proprietary decisions are made. The new project is called Lumiera and
hosted at lumiera.org.


--
Brendan Conoboy / Red Hat, Inc. / blc@redhat.com

--
fedora-devel-list mailing list
fedora-devel-list@redhat.com
https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/fedora-devel-list
 

Thread Tools




All times are GMT. The time now is 10:45 AM.

VBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2007, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright 2007 - 2008, www.linux-archive.org