Alan wrote:

On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 2:10 PM, Christopher Stone
<chris.stone@gmail.com> wrote:

Okay, this is good news. I'll post on the nVidia forums to make sure
they know. I still think it's a bit uncalled for to say nVidia should
get their act together when the ABI was only declared stable last
week.

Dude that thread is super long...and I was quoting an nvidia dev from
the thread.
Trust me... they know. Post #42 is a really good read concerning the
recent history of the ABI. There is absolutely nothing new here.


There seems to be some internal debate within nvidia about when the new
version(s) get released. They know the abi is stable, but there seems to
be someone within nvidia who is waiting for the official 1.5 release.


If this is in reference to Zander's comments in the previously posted nvnews.net
forum thread then do keep in mind this is the same Zander who is responsible for
the nvidia drivers original kernel 2.6 patches and capability; He of all people
knows very well how much work needs to go into supporting rapid kernel/X
development changes. I'm sure that work is being done on it, and they are well
aware now that (due to Fedora using the ABI) it is no longer a moving target.
Had Fedora not released with the new Xorg ABI nvidia would probably still not be
actively working on it yet.


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Les Mikesell wrote:
Please post that on the http://fedoraproject.org/ page so everyone will
understand what to expect.


"Fedora is a Linux-based operating system that showcases the latest in free and
open source software."


"The Fedora Project is out front for you, leading the advancement of free, open
software and content."


If that is ambiguous you're not really reading very clearly. How else are you
going to interpret a purpose to showcase, lead, and advance...


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Les Mikesell <lesmikesell <at> gmail.com> writes:
> Was anyone asking you to "support" one of the vendors that actually
> makes an effort to help Linux users?

They are the one (major GPU) vendor which makes NO effort to support Free
Software WHATSOEVER. NO source code (except some very old contributions to "nv"
with no acceleration support, and those are intentionally obfuscated, which is
blatantly against the spirit of Free Software, a lot of work Nouveau has to do
is unobfuscating that code), NO specs (whatsoever - AFAIK they don't even
provide them under an NDA), and repeated confirmation that they DON'T care at
all about Free Software.

Kevin Kofler

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Andrew Farris wrote:

Les Mikesell wrote:
Please post that on the http://fedoraproject.org/ page so everyone
will understand what to expect.


"Fedora is a Linux-based operating system that showcases the latest in
free and open source software."


"The Fedora Project is out front for you, leading the advancement of
free, open software and content."


If that is ambiguous you're not really reading very clearly. How else
are you going to interpret a purpose to showcase, lead, and advance...


If I wanted to showcase something, I'd make an effort to make sure it
worked on popular hardware and with other popular software at its
release. I don't think that's descriptive at all.


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Les Mikesell wrote:

Andrew Farris wrote:

Les Mikesell wrote:
Please post that on the http://fedoraproject.org/ page so everyone
will understand what to expect.


"Fedora is a Linux-based operating system that showcases the latest in
free and open source software."


"The Fedora Project is out front for you, leading the advancement of
free, open software and content."


If that is ambiguous you're not really reading very clearly. How else
are you going to interpret a purpose to showcase, lead, and advance...


If I wanted to showcase something, I'd make an effort to make sure it
worked on popular hardware and with other popular software at its
release. I don't think that's descriptive at all.


All goals are not always harmonious with each other either.

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2008/5/20 Paul W. Frields <stickster@gmail.com>:

You were doing really well up to the last couple of lines. *Please,

let's try to keep things civil. *I know it's frustrating when community

members have to explain open source fundamentals repeatedly. *This might

make good fodder for a FAQ entry, to which you could simply point.
There's a reason I'm in engineering and not sales. Or marketing. Or support...

But yeah. Serious FAQ territory here.


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On Wed, May 21, 2008 at 1:44 AM, Les Mikesell <lesmikesell@gmail.com> wrote:


If I wanted to showcase something, I'd make an effort to make sure it worked on popular hardware and with other popular software at its release. *I don't think that's descriptive at all.

I like how in these threads it keeps conveniently being ignored that we work just fine out of the box on Nvidia. We just don't have 3D yet.

Les GTFO.

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* Callum Lerwick [21/05/2008 11:03] :
>
> I like how in these threads it keeps conveniently being ignored that we work
> just fine out of the box on Nvidia. We just don't have 3D yet.

I've always being surprised at the amount of blame-shifting that occurs
in regards to Nvidia's drivers.

- The free drivers suck. This apparently isn't NVidia's fault (which is
strange since they help maintain it) but the x.org developers'.
- The non-free drivers aren't free. This apparently isn't NVidia's fault.
- This makes the drivers impossible to ship as part of the distribution
or support as a third-party repo. This is somehow the distribution's
fault.
- They don't release drivers once the ABI is frozen or even the day
stable releases of x.org are issued. This apparently isn't their fault.
- They won't release the specs. This apparently isn't their fault.
- They badmouth the open source developement model. I have no idea why
but this isn't their fault.

Emmanuel

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On Tue, May 20, 2008 at 02:40:13PM -0700, Christopher Stone wrote:
> Why the H.E. double hockey sticks do people think proving
> compatibility packages for nVidia users will somehow hold the desktop
> hostage for everyone else?
>
> I do not understand why ajax could not provide compatibility rpms for
> nVidia users? Is he not paid by redhat? I mean just how difficult
> can it be to provide F8 xorg rpms on F9 for nVidia users??

NVidia could completely resolve this issue tomorrow, simply by open
sourcing their graphics driver. I suggest you contact them about
this.

Rich.

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On Tue, 20 May 2008 18:39:30 -0700
Denis Leroy <denis@poolshark.org> quoth:
> I'm also hostage to Nvidia's good will...

I also. Not happy with nvidia.

However here is a small constructive criticism/suggestion for Fedora.
F9 Release notes, section 21.3 "Third Party Video Drivers", add:

``As of <release-date>, the version of xorg in F9 is incompatible
with certain third party video drivers, including nvidia
<and-others-I-do-not-know-about>.'

That would have saved me a lot of time, and would have been a little
more thoughtful without compromising Fedora's strong stance on closed
source, which I endorse.

Note also, this situation would have been even less painful if
xorg-drv-{nv,nouveau} actually worked sensibly even in 2D. #182517 is
getting pretty old and #234824 is just painful.

Cheers,
Mike Pope



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