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Old 05-03-2008, 07:11 AM
Suren Karapetyan
 
Default Apt autoupdates

Hi there!
Yesterday I was playing with synaptic (so I installed apt, ...)
Today in the morning I received a message from fcron telling that apt
has successfully upgraded my PC to the latest rawhide (Before it I kept
old Xorg and Kernel to run Nvidia drivers: yum update --exclude...).
IIRC yum-updatesd isn't configured to update without asking so my
question is:

Is it desired for apt "CHECK_ONLY=no" in default /etc/sysconfig/apt.

Thanks

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Old 05-03-2008, 11:13 AM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default Apt autoupdates

Suren Karapetyan wrote:

Hi there!
Yesterday I was playing with synaptic (so I installed apt, ...)
Today in the morning I received a message from fcron telling that apt
has successfully upgraded my PC to the latest rawhide (Before it I kept
old Xorg and Kernel to run Nvidia drivers: yum update --exclude...).
IIRC yum-updatesd isn't configured to update without asking so my
question is:

Is it desired for apt "CHECK_ONLY=no" in default /etc/sysconfig/apt.


Yeah. Auto updates without asking the user isn't consistent with the
behaviour of the rest of the package management systems.


Rahul

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Old 05-03-2008, 03:33 PM
Suren Karapetyan
 
Default Apt autoupdates

Rahul Sundaram wrote:

Suren Karapetyan wrote:

Hi there!
Yesterday I was playing with synaptic (so I installed apt, ...)
Today in the morning I received a message from fcron telling that apt
has successfully upgraded my PC to the latest rawhide (Before it I
kept old Xorg and Kernel to run Nvidia drivers: yum update
--exclude...).
IIRC yum-updatesd isn't configured to update without asking so my
question is:

Is it desired for apt "CHECK_ONLY=no" in default /etc/sysconfig/apt.


Yeah. Auto updates without asking the user isn't consistent with the
behaviour of the rest of the package management systems.


Rahul


Should I file a bug?
Cause it's really annoying... It installs a new init script without any
notice, makes it run by default and makes it update your system...
without asking you.
For yum at least we have seperate package yum-updatesd so even if it
made autoupdates default the name makes you check for a new init script.
And it can really screw the system. Today I spent an hour and ~100M
traffic to bring the things back. Well traffic doesn't mean much for me
(it's cool to work for an ISP) but some people may have problems with it.


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Old 05-03-2008, 03:41 PM
Rahul Sundaram
 
Default Apt autoupdates

Suren Karapetyan wrote:


Should I file a bug?
Cause it's really annoying... It installs a new init script without any
notice, makes it run by default and makes it update your system...
without asking you.


Yeah. You should file a bug report.

Rahul

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Old 05-03-2008, 05:27 PM
Suren Karapetyan
 
Default Apt autoupdates

Rahul Sundaram wrote:

Suren Karapetyan wrote:


Should I file a bug?
Cause it's really annoying... It installs a new init script without
any notice, makes it run by default and makes it update your
system... without asking you.


Yeah. You should file a bug report.

Rahul


Done
https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=445096

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Old 05-03-2008, 06:38 PM
Anders Karlsson
 
Default Apt autoupdates

* Rahul Sundaram <sundaram@fedoraproject.org> [20080503 17:47]:
> Suren Karapetyan wrote:
>
>> Should I file a bug?
>> Cause it's really annoying... It installs a new init script without any
>> notice, makes it run by default and makes it update your system... without
>> asking you.
>
> Yeah. You should file a bug report.

I was under the impression that this is what 'pinning' packages was
available for. I don't see this as a bug but as expected
behaviour. After all, we do expect yum and it's tools up update
all available packages unless we tell it not to.

Now, if the packages were pinned, and the update script went ahead and
updated them anyway, that would be a bug.

/Anders

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Old 05-03-2008, 06:47 PM
"Jeff Spaleta"
 
Default Apt autoupdates

On Sat, May 3, 2008 at 10:38 AM, Anders Karlsson <anders@trudheim.co.uk> wrote:
> I was under the impression that this is what 'pinning' packages was
> available for. I don't see this as a bug but as expected
> behaviour. After all, we do expect yum and it's tools up update
> all available packages unless we tell it not to.

AUTO updating via a scheduled cronjob is not the default behavior for
yum. You should re-read the original post and the filed bugreport.

-jef

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Old 05-03-2008, 06:50 PM
Suren Karapetyan
 
Default Apt autoupdates

Anders Karlsson wrote:

* Rahul Sundaram <sundaram@fedoraproject.org> [20080503 17:47]:


Suren Karapetyan wrote:



Should I file a bug?
Cause it's really annoying... It installs a new init script without any
notice, makes it run by default and makes it update your system... without
asking you.


Yeah. You should file a bug report.



I was under the impression that this is what 'pinning' packages was
available for. I don't see this as a bug but as expected
behaviour. After all, we do expect yum and it's tools up update
all available packages unless we tell it not to.

Now, if the packages were pinned, and the update script went ahead and
updated them anyway, that would be a bug.

/Anders



We expect "yum update" to update all packages.
But we (or at least me) don't expect yum (nor even yum-updatesd) to
update all packages nightly by default.
Agree about pinning, but pinning doesn't work well for rawhide cause
especially during the first half of rawhide development I would have
50%+ packages pinned.

I have only one PC at home so it needs to be at least remotely stable

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Old 05-04-2008, 08:05 AM
Anders Karlsson
 
Default Apt autoupdates

* Suren Karapetyan <surenkarapetyan@gmail.com> [20080503 20:51]:
> Anders Karlsson wrote:
>> I was under the impression that this is what 'pinning' packages was
>> available for. I don't see this as a bug but as expected
>> behaviour. After all, we do expect yum and it's tools up update
>> all available packages unless we tell it not to.
>>
>> Now, if the packages were pinned, and the update script went ahead and
>> updated them anyway, that would be a bug.
>
> We expect "yum update" to update all packages.
> But we (or at least me) don't expect yum (nor even yum-updatesd) to update
> all packages nightly by default.
> Agree about pinning, but pinning doesn't work well for rawhide cause
> especially during the first half of rawhide development I would have 50%+
> packages pinned.
> I have only one PC at home so it needs to be at least remotely stable

I am not 100% sure, as I don't currently have a Debian based system to
check with, but from memory, this is what a Debian based system
does, have a cronjob that does the nightly updates. If so, the apt
package in Fedora just does what upstream (Debian) does, and we track
upstream closely, right?

The setting in /etc/sysconfig/apt would be something simple to carry a
separate patch for though. I'll shut up now.

/Anders

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Old 05-04-2008, 02:19 PM
"Suren Karapetyan"
 
Default Apt autoupdates

On 5/4/08, Anders Karlsson <anders@trudheim.co.uk> wrote:
> * Suren Karapetyan <surenkarapetyan@gmail.com> [20080503 20:51]:
> > Anders Karlsson wrote:
> >> I was under the impression that this is what 'pinning' packages was
> >> available for. I don't see this as a bug but as expected
> >> behaviour. After all, we do expect yum and it's tools up update
> >> all available packages unless we tell it not to.
> >>
> >> Now, if the packages were pinned, and the update script went ahead and
> >> updated them anyway, that would be a bug.
> >
> > We expect "yum update" to update all packages.
> > But we (or at least me) don't expect yum (nor even yum-updatesd) to update
> > all packages nightly by default.
> > Agree about pinning, but pinning doesn't work well for rawhide cause
> > especially during the first half of rawhide development I would have 50%+
> > packages pinned.
> > I have only one PC at home so it needs to be at least remotely stable
>
> I am not 100% sure, as I don't currently have a Debian based system to
> check with, but from memory, this is what a Debian based system
> does, have a cronjob that does the nightly updates.

Well I do have a Debian4 system handy.
Debian has the cron jobs for apt scheduled in daily, but the default
configuration (which is done in /etc/cron.daily/apt) has the
auto(update/upgrade) options turned off. So it doesn't even update the
package list, let alone the packages.

> If so, the apt
> package in Fedora just does what upstream (Debian) does, and we track
> upstream closely, right?

Well of course we are
But this doesn't make sense in this case cause upstream of apt
(Debian) has nothing to do with Fedora or even rpms

>
> The setting in /etc/sysconfig/apt would be something simple to carry a
> separate patch for though. I'll shut up now.

and it [upstream] has nothing to do with /etc/sysconfig/apt cause
there is no sysconfig in Debian. So /etc/sysconfig/apt isn't a file
which should be PATCHED.
It's just a distro-specific configuration file which should be MODIFIED.

>
> /Anders
>
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>

Regards
Suren

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