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Old 10-11-2012, 01:07 AM
Adam Williamson
 
Default Schedule for Wednesday's FESCo Meeting (2012-10-10)

On Wed, 2012-10-10 at 19:40 -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 04:39:13PM -0600, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> > > Doesn't that come down to "it's random" in the combined case?
> > Well, not exactly. It's in actual install order. So if you
> >
> > yum install gdm
> > and then
> > yum install lightdm
>
> But what if it's done by anaconda?

The more cases you start considering the trickier this gets. There's
always a 'what if'. But for the main cases, it's not an operative
concern: anaconda only lets you install one desktop, now. For any
interactive anaconda install in F18 there will be one desktop and one
DM, so there's no problem.

You can do a multiple desktop install with a kickstart file. That's one
of the 'what ifs'. And in that case, you won't really know which DM will
get enabled. But is it really a big deal? You'll get *a* DM enabled, at
least. A lot of the time you probably aren't going to care which one you
get. If you do care, it's one command to change it. We just decided it
really wasn't going to ruin anyone's day in the end. Any time you're
installing multiple desktops, you're letting yourself in for a certain
amount of configuration work anyhow.
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:22 AM
Matthew Miller
 
Default Schedule for Wednesday's FESCo Meeting (2012-10-10)

On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 06:07:55PM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
> > > > Doesn't that come down to "it's random" in the combined case?
> > > Well, not exactly. It's in actual install order. So if you
> > But what if it's done by anaconda?
> You can do a multiple desktop install with a kickstart file. That's one
> of the 'what ifs'. And in that case, you won't really know which DM will
> get enabled. But is it really a big deal? You'll get *a* DM enabled, at

This is the case I'm thinking of, for university computer labs.

It seems like having the preset policy RPMs to make the decision
deterministic is a good idea.


> least. A lot of the time you probably aren't going to care which one you
> get. If you do care, it's one command to change it. We just decided it
> really wasn't going to ruin anyone's day in the end. Any time you're

I can see it making someone annoyed and frustrated....

> installing multiple desktops, you're letting yourself in for a certain
> amount of configuration work anyhow.

How so?

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Old 10-11-2012, 02:06 AM
Adam Williamson
 
Default Schedule for Wednesday's FESCo Meeting (2012-10-10)

On Wed, 2012-10-10 at 21:22 -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 06:07:55PM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
> > > > > Doesn't that come down to "it's random" in the combined case?
> > > > Well, not exactly. It's in actual install order. So if you
> > > But what if it's done by anaconda?
> > You can do a multiple desktop install with a kickstart file. That's one
> > of the 'what ifs'. And in that case, you won't really know which DM will
> > get enabled. But is it really a big deal? You'll get *a* DM enabled, at
>
> This is the case I'm thinking of, for university computer labs.
>
> It seems like having the preset policy RPMs to make the decision
> deterministic is a good idea.

Well if you're using a kickstart anyway, you can just stick a systemctl
enable command in %post, can't you?
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Old 10-11-2012, 02:12 AM
Matthew Miller
 
Default Schedule for Wednesday's FESCo Meeting (2012-10-10)

On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 07:06:27PM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
> > It seems like having the preset policy RPMs to make the decision
> > deterministic is a good idea.
> Well if you're using a kickstart anyway, you can just stick a systemctl
> enable command in %post, can't you?

Yes but it's a little surprising (in the bad sense) that one might have to.

Isn't the point of all this to package up the policy nicely to reduce the
need for magical script snippets?

I can't really think of a better solution for the desktop manager case,
though, so I guess it comes down to documenting the heck out of it so that
it's easy for people in the above case.


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Old 10-11-2012, 02:18 AM
Kevin Fenzi
 
Default Schedule for Wednesday's FESCo Meeting (2012-10-10)

On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 17:55:01 -0700
Adam Williamson <awilliam@redhat.com> wrote:

> This reminds me, we need to take the trigger files out of the *dm
> packages now, right?

trigger files? Or you mean presets? Yeah.

kevin

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Old 10-11-2012, 02:20 AM
Adam Williamson
 
Default Schedule for Wednesday's FESCo Meeting (2012-10-10)

On Wed, 2012-10-10 at 22:12 -0400, Matthew Miller wrote:
> On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 07:06:27PM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
> > > It seems like having the preset policy RPMs to make the decision
> > > deterministic is a good idea.
> > Well if you're using a kickstart anyway, you can just stick a systemctl
> > enable command in %post, can't you?
>
> Yes but it's a little surprising (in the bad sense) that one might have to.
>
> Isn't the point of all this to package up the policy nicely to reduce the
> need for magical script snippets?

Personally I'm a little unclear on what the point of replacing prefdm
ever was, but I gave up that battle weeks ago. =)
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Old 10-11-2012, 02:21 AM
Kevin Fenzi
 
Default Schedule for Wednesday's FESCo Meeting (2012-10-10)

On Wed, 10 Oct 2012 19:40:55 -0400
Matthew Miller <mattdm@fedoraproject.org> wrote:

> I think turning off sshd by default but having a preset to turn it on
> makes a lot of sense -- most places which will want it on will be
> using kickstart, or else will otherwise have little problem enabling
> it after the fact.

I think that would confuse a lot of folks... many people expect ssh to
be available on their desktop machines, etc.

Also, whats the gain?
less exposure to brute force password guessing?

kevin
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Old 10-11-2012, 02:28 AM
Matthew Miller
 
Default Schedule for Wednesday's FESCo Meeting (2012-10-10)

On Wed, Oct 10, 2012 at 08:21:02PM -0600, Kevin Fenzi wrote:
> > I think turning off sshd by default but having a preset to turn it on
> > makes a lot of sense -- most places which will want it on will be
> > using kickstart, or else will otherwise have little problem enabling
> > it after the fact.
> I think that would confuse a lot of folks... many people expect ssh to
> be available on their desktop machines, etc.

Yeah, but many are equally surprised that it's on by default. Any change
here would have to be accompanied both by documentation about the change and
clear docs telling people how to turn it on both by hand and in kickstart.


> Also, whats the gain?
> less exposure to brute force password guessing?

Yes, that's the gain. Or to a widespread but as-yet-unknown sshd exploit.


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