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Old 10-09-2012, 07:11 PM
Jesse Keating
 
Default Use of a package?

On 10/09/2012 12:05 PM, Richard W.M. Jones wrote:

FWIW popcon sends the atime of package files [all files or just
binaries?] to determine whether a program has been run. I don't know
if this works with relatime or not, but I assume Debian have thought
of this.


That doesn't distinguish between atime of launching or reading the
library vs accessing it to back it up or prelink, or...?


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Old 10-09-2012, 07:22 PM
Matthew Miller
 
Default Use of a package?

On Tue, Oct 09, 2012 at 12:11:30PM -0700, Jesse Keating wrote:
> That doesn't distinguish between atime of launching or reading the
> library vs accessing it to back it up or prelink, or...?

We could turn off prelink.


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Old 10-09-2012, 07:28 PM
Jesse Keating
 
Default Use of a package?

On 10/09/2012 12:22 PM, Matthew Miller wrote:

On Tue, Oct 09, 2012 at 12:11:30PM -0700, Jesse Keating wrote:

That doesn't distinguish between atime of launching or reading the
library vs accessing it to back it up or prelink, or...?


We could turn off prelink.




I realize that the above was not stated as a question. My mastery of
English amazes even me


I meant to ask:

Does that distinguish between atime of launching the application or
reading the library into another application vs accessing it to back it
up, prelink it, or any other systemic read unrelated to the package itself?


I was asking a leading question, pointing out that at least in my
opinion, atime alone can also lead to invalid data. Perhaps some
invalid data is better than no data at all.


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Old 10-09-2012, 07:45 PM
Matthew Miller
 
Default Use of a package?

On Tue, Oct 09, 2012 at 12:28:02PM -0700, Jesse Keating wrote:
> Does that distinguish between atime of launching the application or
> reading the library into another application vs accessing it to back
> it up, prelink it, or any other systemic read unrelated to the
> package itself?

I don't think they do. The FAQ doesn't even address this very reasonable
concern.
> I was asking a leading question, pointing out that at least in my
> opinion, atime alone can also lead to invalid data. Perhaps some
> invalid data is better than no data at all.

Aaand I was giving an unhelpful silly answer even though I really understood
you.

I suppose one could automatically detect if the atimes for _all_ of
your packages are within 24 hours and count those as "installed" votes
rather than "used".

Also, here's a thing: "popcorn" is an opensuse implementation of popcon for
RPM: https://features.opensuse.org/312830


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Old 10-09-2012, 08:01 PM
"Eric H. Christensen"
 
Default Use of a package?

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On Tue, Oct 09, 2012 at 12:28:02PM -0700, Jesse Keating wrote:
> Perhaps some
> invalid data is better than no data at all.

Okay, that made me laugh more than it should have. Can I use that in the future?

- -Eric
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Old 10-09-2012, 08:31 PM
Jesse Keating
 
Default Use of a package?

On 10/09/2012 01:01 PM, Eric H. Christensen wrote:

On Tue, Oct 09, 2012 at 12:28:02PM -0700, Jesse Keating wrote:

>Perhaps some
>invalid data is better than no data at all.

Okay, that made me laugh more than it should have. Can I use that in the future?


I license the above content under the WTFPL.

https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Licensing:WTFPL

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Old 10-09-2012, 08:41 PM
"Eric H. Christensen"
 
Default Use of a package?

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Hash: SHA1

On Tue, Oct 09, 2012 at 01:31:41PM -0700, Jesse Keating wrote:
> On 10/09/2012 01:01 PM, Eric H. Christensen wrote:
> >On Tue, Oct 09, 2012 at 12:28:02PM -0700, Jesse Keating wrote:
> >>>Perhaps some
> >>>invalid data is better than no data at all.
> >Okay, that made me laugh more than it should have. Can I use that in the future?
>
> I license the above content under the WTFPL.
>
> https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Licensing:WTFPL

That seems to be an open source license...
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Old 10-09-2012, 08:43 PM
Jesse Keating
 
Default Use of a package?

On 10/09/2012 01:41 PM, Eric H. Christensen wrote:

I license the above content under the WTFPL.
>
>https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Licensing:WTFPL

That seems to be an open source license...


It was an attempt at humor. Feel free to use the content in whatever
manner you wish.


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Old 10-09-2012, 09:22 PM
"Eric H. Christensen"
 
Default Use of a package?

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On Tue, Oct 09, 2012 at 01:43:35PM -0700, Jesse Keating wrote:
> On 10/09/2012 01:41 PM, Eric H. Christensen wrote:
> >>I license the above content under the WTFPL.
> >>>
> >>>https://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Licensing:WTFPL
> >That seems to be an open source license...
>
> It was an attempt at humor. Feel free to use the content in
> whatever manner you wish.

As was I. Thanks!
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Old 10-11-2012, 12:29 AM
"Eric H. Christensen"
 
Default Use of a package?

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On Tue, Oct 09, 2012 at 11:51:56AM -0700, Jesse Keating wrote:
> On 10/09/2012 11:07 AM, Matthew Miller wrote:
> >On Tue, Oct 09, 2012 at 01:29:04PM -0400, Eric H. Christensen wrote:
> >>Well, if I don't know *if* it's being used I certainly can't ask the
> >>unknown masses. I was just looking at some of the packages I recently
> >>adopted and noted that many of them seem to have dead or dying upstream.
> >>That isn't to say the software isn't still useful but if folks aren't
> >>using them... You get what I'm saying.
> >
> >Oooh that. Yes, this would be good -- I understand there's work on a new
> >"census" program to replace smolt, but I don't know the details.
> >
>
> Each time this is brought up, the arguments are made that it's
> flawed data. Just because a package is installed does not mean that
> the package is /used/. Generally this leads to suggestions about
> tracking actual launches or access of files of a package, then
> privacy arguments, and then nothing happens.

That's true. I hate to think about all the packages I have on my system, that were installed by default, that I don't use. I try to comb through the updates to see what I can safely remove. AFAIK, the packages I maintain aren't highly used and are probably only installed if the person *wants* to use them. I think it would be neat to have some sort of running count on what packages are installed, similar to the app store on the Android. At least I'd know if anyone else was enjoying my work.

- -Eric
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