FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
» Video Reviews

» Linux Archive

Linux-archive is a website aiming to archive linux email lists and to make them easily accessible for linux users/developers.


» Sponsor

» Partners

» Sponsor

Go Back   Linux Archive > Redhat > Fedora Development

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
 
Old 10-09-2012, 05:36 PM
Lennart Poettering
 
Default systemd requires HTTP server and serves QR codes

On Tue, 09.10.12 13:28, Matthew Miller (mattdm@fedoraproject.org) wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 09, 2012 at 07:15:54PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> > > >If we can save space in the minimal cloud image, it seems worth doing to me.
> > > >Looks like in the current EC2 instance, it's about 35M (minus a few K for
> > > >licenses).
> > > 35M? That feels a lot like 'meh' to me.
> > It's 28M of my 434M F18 container image. i.e. 6.5% of the disk space.
>
> Is that just /usr/share/doc or are you also including the man pages?

that's doc+info+man.

Lennart

--
Lennart Poettering - Red Hat, Inc.
--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/develN���4�5������z��q� }��k�7����Z�(^rG�U��ҥ� �Ƭ�)��:Ӫ'y�%{�6�֫�ם�*y� �t�jb޽���J*����
 
Old 10-09-2012, 05:39 PM
David Malcolm
 
Default systemd requires HTTP server and serves QR codes

On Tue, 2012-10-09 at 20:20 +0300, Panu Matilainen wrote:
> On 10/09/2012 08:15 PM, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> > On Tue, 09.10.12 10:54, Seth Vidal (skvidal@fedoraproject.org) wrote:
> >
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On Tue, 9 Oct 2012, Matthew Miller wrote:
> >>
> >>> On Tue, Oct 09, 2012 at 10:18:27AM -0400, Seth Vidal wrote:
> >>>> You'll need to get the packaging team on board with it. I have to
> >>>> say it is pretty much non-existent as a priority to anyone I've
> >>>> spoken with.
> >>>
> >>> If we can save space in the minimal cloud image, it seems worth doing to me.
> >>> Looks like in the current EC2 instance, it's about 35M (minus a few K for
> >>> licenses).
> >>
> >> 35M? That feels a lot like 'meh' to me.
> >
> > It's 28M of my 434M F18 container image. i.e. 6.5% of the disk space.
> >
> > /usr/lib/locale and /usr/share/locale are 148M of my 434M container
> > image, i.e. 35%. I wonder if we could do something about that. Is there
> > a way to tell yum not to install any translations, or just translations
> > for a certain set of languages?
>
> Yup, another rpm macro configuration item (this is obviously the default):
>
> # A colon separated list of desired locales to be installed;
> # "all" means install all locale specific files.
> #
> %_install_langs all

Is this something that Anaconda could change, based on the language
settings provided by the user in the UI? How well do rpm and yum work
if you actually change this config?

--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
 
Old 10-09-2012, 05:39 PM
Lennart Poettering
 
Default systemd requires HTTP server and serves QR codes

On Tue, 09.10.12 18:33, Richard W.M. Jones (rjones@redhat.com) wrote:

> On Tue, Oct 09, 2012 at 03:43:33PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> > On Tue, 09.10.12 13:31, Richard W.M. Jones (rjones@redhat.com) wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, Oct 09, 2012 at 12:24:03PM +0200, Milan Broz wrote:
> > > > - systemd-udev
> > >
> > > +1 .. udev should really be a separate package again.
> >
> > OK, I'll bite, why?
> >
> > > Also, please stop moving udevd around.
> >
> > What is it to you where the binary lives?
>
> libguestfs runs udevd, and does not use or need systemd.

And you can use libguestfs without Fedora booted up? Does libguestfs
include its own init system?

This is fedora-devel. Are confusing this with gentoo-dev?

Lennart

--
Lennart Poettering - Red Hat, Inc.
--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
 
Old 10-09-2012, 05:41 PM
Lennart Poettering
 
Default systemd requires HTTP server and serves QR codes

On Tue, 09.10.12 16:25, Milan Broz (mbroz@redhat.com) wrote:

> On 10/09/2012 03:42 PM, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> > On Tue, 09.10.12 12:24, Milan Broz (mbroz@redhat.com) wrote:
> >
> >> - systemd-cryptsetup
> >> (generally, to be able to install system without cryptsetup->device-mapper libs
> >> dependences if only plain partitions are used, as they are in VM)
> >> - system-readahead
> >>
> >> - systemd-udev
> >
> > Making cryptsetup/readahead/udev optional is certainly doable, but then
> > again, these things are absolutely trivial, so unless there is a strong
> > need for it, I'd avoid making things more complicated for me.
>
> While I understand this argument, there are also users with different needs.
>
> > Note that it is not possible to boot up a machine withotu udev though.
>
> With some hacks it is possible (and sometimes even useful) but perhaps no longer
> in Fedora. (I am using Gentoo for these crazy things so I really do
> not care.)

Fedora does not support this. systemd wouldn't find a single fs to mount
without udev being up. THis is totally out of scope for fedora.

Lennart

--
Lennart Poettering - Red Hat, Inc.
--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
 
Old 10-09-2012, 05:49 PM
Simo Sorce
 
Default systemd requires HTTP server and serves QR codes

On Tue, 2012-10-09 at 19:39 +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> On Tue, 09.10.12 18:33, Richard W.M. Jones (rjones@redhat.com) wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Oct 09, 2012 at 03:43:33PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> > > On Tue, 09.10.12 13:31, Richard W.M. Jones (rjones@redhat.com) wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Tue, Oct 09, 2012 at 12:24:03PM +0200, Milan Broz wrote:
> > > > > - systemd-udev
> > > >
> > > > +1 .. udev should really be a separate package again.
> > >
> > > OK, I'll bite, why?
> > >
> > > > Also, please stop moving udevd around.
> > >
> > > What is it to you where the binary lives?
> >
> > libguestfs runs udevd, and does not use or need systemd.
>
> And you can use libguestfs without Fedora booted up? Does libguestfs
> include its own init system?
>
> This is fedora-devel. Are confusing this with gentoo-dev?

Maybe you should learn what libguestfs does before making childish
remarks.

Simo.

--
Simo Sorce * Red Hat, Inc * New York

--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
 
Old 10-09-2012, 05:57 PM
Panu Matilainen
 
Default systemd requires HTTP server and serves QR codes

On 10/09/2012 08:39 PM, David Malcolm wrote:

On Tue, 2012-10-09 at 20:20 +0300, Panu Matilainen wrote:

On 10/09/2012 08:15 PM, Lennart Poettering wrote:

On Tue, 09.10.12 10:54, Seth Vidal (skvidal@fedoraproject.org) wrote:





On Tue, 9 Oct 2012, Matthew Miller wrote:


On Tue, Oct 09, 2012 at 10:18:27AM -0400, Seth Vidal wrote:

You'll need to get the packaging team on board with it. I have to
say it is pretty much non-existent as a priority to anyone I've
spoken with.


If we can save space in the minimal cloud image, it seems worth doing to me.
Looks like in the current EC2 instance, it's about 35M (minus a few K for
licenses).


35M? That feels a lot like 'meh' to me.


It's 28M of my 434M F18 container image. i.e. 6.5% of the disk space.

/usr/lib/locale and /usr/share/locale are 148M of my 434M container
image, i.e. 35%. I wonder if we could do something about that. Is there
a way to tell yum not to install any translations, or just translations
for a certain set of languages?


Yup, another rpm macro configuration item (this is obviously the default):

# A colon separated list of desired locales to be installed;
# "all" means install all locale specific files.
#
%_install_langs all


Is this something that Anaconda could change, based on the language
settings provided by the user in the UI? How well do rpm and yum work
if you actually change this config?



Anaconda used to support this, maybe up to RHEL-4 era or thereabouts.

Both rpm and yum work fine with this as such, presto might have to
revert back to downloading full packages (but I'm not sure about that)


The big problem with selective locale installation is that it's a
one-way street: there's no way to install new locales short of fully
reinstalling all affected packages (or the entire system, while at it).
So while it might be fine for special-purpose installations / images,
it's not that useful on a general purpose installation.


- Panu -
--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
 
Old 10-09-2012, 06:00 PM
Toshio Kuratomi
 
Default systemd requires HTTP server and serves QR codes

On Tue, Oct 09, 2012 at 01:39:40PM -0400, David Malcolm wrote:
> On Tue, 2012-10-09 at 20:20 +0300, Panu Matilainen wrote:
> >
> > # A colon separated list of desired locales to be installed;
> > # "all" means install all locale specific files.
> > #
> > %_install_langs all
>
> Is this something that Anaconda could change, based on the language
> settings provided by the user in the UI? How well do rpm and yum work
> if you actually change this config?
>
in the past, anaconda's language settings were more about default
localization, not about what locales should be installed. The package
selection interface had separate packages for supporting some languages.
So somewhere close to that screen might be more appropriate.

rpm and yum should work with that setting.. I used to run with
_install_langs set to three or less languages back in the early Fedora Core
days.

One issue is that there's not really a way for the sysadmin to change this
"on the fly". ie: if anaconda installs with only one locale, the only way
to then get the other locales is to change _install_langs and then reinstall
the packages.

-Toshio
--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
 
Old 10-09-2012, 06:01 PM
Lennart Poettering
 
Default systemd requires HTTP server and serves QR codes

On Tue, 09.10.12 13:49, Simo Sorce (simo@redhat.com) wrote:

> On Tue, 2012-10-09 at 19:39 +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> > On Tue, 09.10.12 18:33, Richard W.M. Jones (rjones@redhat.com) wrote:
> >
> > > On Tue, Oct 09, 2012 at 03:43:33PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> > > > On Tue, 09.10.12 13:31, Richard W.M. Jones (rjones@redhat.com) wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > On Tue, Oct 09, 2012 at 12:24:03PM +0200, Milan Broz wrote:
> > > > > > - systemd-udev
> > > > >
> > > > > +1 .. udev should really be a separate package again.
> > > >
> > > > OK, I'll bite, why?
> > > >
> > > > > Also, please stop moving udevd around.
> > > >
> > > > What is it to you where the binary lives?
> > >
> > > libguestfs runs udevd, and does not use or need systemd.
> >
> > And you can use libguestfs without Fedora booted up? Does libguestfs
> > include its own init system?
> >
> > This is fedora-devel. Are confusing this with gentoo-dev?
>
> Maybe you should learn what libguestfs does before making childish
> remarks.

So, then enlighten me! What does libguestfs do if it doesn't need an
init system on Fedora? I really don't get this.

Lennart

--
Lennart Poettering - Red Hat, Inc.
--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
 
Old 10-09-2012, 06:04 PM
"Richard W.M. Jones"
 
Default systemd requires HTTP server and serves QR codes

On Tue, Oct 09, 2012 at 08:01:16PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> On Tue, 09.10.12 13:49, Simo Sorce (simo@redhat.com) wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 2012-10-09 at 19:39 +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> > > On Tue, 09.10.12 18:33, Richard W.M. Jones (rjones@redhat.com) wrote:
> > >
> > > > On Tue, Oct 09, 2012 at 03:43:33PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> > > > > On Tue, 09.10.12 13:31, Richard W.M. Jones (rjones@redhat.com) wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On Tue, Oct 09, 2012 at 12:24:03PM +0200, Milan Broz wrote:
> > > > > > > - systemd-udev
> > > > > >
> > > > > > +1 .. udev should really be a separate package again.
> > > > >
> > > > > OK, I'll bite, why?
> > > > >
> > > > > > Also, please stop moving udevd around.
> > > > >
> > > > > What is it to you where the binary lives?
> > > >
> > > > libguestfs runs udevd, and does not use or need systemd.
> > >
> > > And you can use libguestfs without Fedora booted up? Does libguestfs
> > > include its own init system?
> > >
> > > This is fedora-devel. Are confusing this with gentoo-dev?
> >
> > Maybe you should learn what libguestfs does before making childish
> > remarks.
>
> So, then enlighten me! What does libguestfs do if it doesn't need an
> init system on Fedora? I really don't get this.

http://libguestfs.org/guestfs.3.html#architecture

The appliance only has 2 services, and they are run one after the
other. There's no need for an init system in this case.

Rich.

--
Richard Jones, Virtualization Group, Red Hat http://people.redhat.com/~rjones
New in Fedora 11: Fedora Windows cross-compiler. Compile Windows
programs, test, and build Windows installers. Over 70 libraries supprt'd
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/MinGW http://www.annexia.org/fedora_mingw
--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
 
Old 10-09-2012, 06:12 PM
Jesse Keating
 
Default systemd requires HTTP server and serves QR codes

On 10/09/2012 08:15 AM, Matthew Miller wrote:

On Tue, Oct 09, 2012 at 10:54:41AM -0400, Seth Vidal wrote:

If we can save space in the minimal cloud image, it seems worth doing to me.
Looks like in the current EC2 instance, it's about 35M (minus a few K for
licenses).

35M? That feels a lot like 'meh' to me.


A little over 4% of the current total. But on the other hand, it's bigger
than any single package except the kernel and glibc-core. Removing docs
seems like low-hanging fruit, basically, because the rest of the set starts
getting hard.



It may be low hanging fruit on the surface, but would require a fair
amount of engineering time in rpm and yum (and others?). Is that 4%
worth the engineering time, taking time away from other development items?


--
Help me fight child abuse: http://tinyurl.com/jlkcourage

- jlk
--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
 

Thread Tools




All times are GMT. The time now is 04:04 PM.

VBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2007, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright 2007 - 2008, www.linux-archive.org