FAQ Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read
» Video Reviews

» Linux Archive

Linux-archive is a website aiming to archive linux email lists and to make them easily accessible for linux users/developers.


» Sponsor

» Partners

» Sponsor

Go Back   Linux Archive > Redhat > Fedora Development

 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
 
Old 10-09-2012, 02:19 PM
Lennart Poettering
 
Default systemd requires HTTP server and serves QR codes

On Tue, 09.10.12 17:14, Panu Matilainen (pmatilai@laiskiainen.org) wrote:

> On 10/09/2012 04:58 PM, Matthew Miller wrote:
> >On Tue, Oct 09, 2012 at 03:18:25PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> >>To build such an image I'd really would have preferred not installing
> >>the docs. It appears rpm once had a feature for that where you could add
> >>excludedocs in rpmrc. This feature seems to have been removed. Why? Can
> >>we get that back? Or can I enable this for yum in some other way? Anyone
> >>has an idea?
>
> Practically all such configuration was moved from rpmrc to macros
> eons ago. So for the last 10+ years, set "%_excludedocs 1" macro (eg
> somewhere in /etc/rpm/macros.*) to make it permament, for a signle
> run with rpm cli it's --excludedocs (which just flips the relevant
> API flag)

Ahh, good to know. Would be cool to have this googleable somewhere...

Can I pass this somehow to yum? Or do I have to creat a macro file for
this?

Lennart

--
Lennart Poettering - Red Hat, Inc.
--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
 
Old 10-09-2012, 02:22 PM
Panu Matilainen
 
Default systemd requires HTTP server and serves QR codes

On 10/09/2012 05:06 PM, Seth Vidal wrote:




On Tue, 9 Oct 2012, Matthew Miller wrote:


On Tue, Oct 09, 2012 at 03:18:25PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:

To build such an image I'd really would have preferred not installing
the docs. It appears rpm once had a feature for that where you could add
excludedocs in rpmrc. This feature seems to have been removed. Why? Can
we get that back? Or can I enable this for yum in some other way? Anyone
has an idea?


+1 to this, although note that we currently ship licenses as doc
files, and
so that might need to go by packaging/legal.

There's a yum plugin which sets RPM transaction flags
(yum-plugin-tsflags),
and with that we could put "tsflags=nodocs" in the yum.conf. Not sure
how to
get that up to spin-creation tools, and if we're going to count on it it
could probably use some polish and integration.


info


Yeah that goes along with nodocs.




--nodocs and tsflags=nodocs ends up with ugly ugly things when you want
to do rpm -Va later.


Err, not. Rpm remembers files that were skipped on purpose and does not
whine about them on verification:


[root@turre ~]# rpm -U --excludedocs /tmp/telnet-0.17-53.fc17.x86_64.rpm
[root@turre ~]# rpm -V telnet
[root@turre ~]# rpm -ql --state telnet
normal /usr/bin/telnet
not installed /usr/share/doc/telnet-0.17
not installed /usr/share/doc/telnet-0.17/README
not installed /usr/share/man/man1/telnet.1.gz
[root@turre ~]#


--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
 
Old 10-09-2012, 02:25 PM
Milan Broz
 
Default systemd requires HTTP server and serves QR codes

On 10/09/2012 03:42 PM, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> On Tue, 09.10.12 12:24, Milan Broz (mbroz@redhat.com) wrote:
>
>> - systemd-cryptsetup
>> (generally, to be able to install system without cryptsetup->device-mapper libs
>> dependences if only plain partitions are used, as they are in VM)
>> - system-readahead
>>
>> - systemd-udev
>
> Making cryptsetup/readahead/udev optional is certainly doable, but then
> again, these things are absolutely trivial, so unless there is a strong
> need for it, I'd avoid making things more complicated for me.

While I understand this argument, there are also users with different needs.

> Note that it is not possible to boot up a machine withotu udev though.

With some hacks it is possible (and sometimes even useful) but perhaps no longer
in Fedora. (I am using Gentoo for these crazy things so I really do not care.)

But separate functions should be in separate packages. Udev handles devices,
systemd handles services. Keeping udev as integral part of systemd package
is IMHO design mistake (not talking about source git, but I am not sure even
there...)

With the same logic you should integrate half of the system utilities into
systemd. :-)

>> - systemd-journal (or at least that extended httpd part)
>
> The journal cannot be removed really. We require this to capture
> stdout/stderr of all services (or in other words: even folks who think
> the journal is an abomination will benefit from this, as this means
> stdout/stderr data is forwarded to syslog too).

Yes, it is very nice. So just package separately the part which
is redundant when rsyslog is installed and used as system log facility?

Dunno, there are some random Fedora committees to adapt packaging guidelines.

>> maybe *.[service|mount|timer|...] unit files could live in separate
>> subpackage as well
>
> These hardly make sense separate, and we actually spend some work in the
> F18 time-frame to fold them back into the main package.

That was just idea, not much clever seems. It really helps nothing, ignore it.

Milan
--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
 
Old 10-09-2012, 02:25 PM
Panu Matilainen
 
Default systemd requires HTTP server and serves QR codes

On 10/09/2012 05:19 PM, Lennart Poettering wrote:

On Tue, 09.10.12 17:14, Panu Matilainen (pmatilai@laiskiainen.org) wrote:


On 10/09/2012 04:58 PM, Matthew Miller wrote:

On Tue, Oct 09, 2012 at 03:18:25PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:

To build such an image I'd really would have preferred not installing
the docs. It appears rpm once had a feature for that where you could add
excludedocs in rpmrc. This feature seems to have been removed. Why? Can
we get that back? Or can I enable this for yum in some other way? Anyone
has an idea?


Practically all such configuration was moved from rpmrc to macros
eons ago. So for the last 10+ years, set "%_excludedocs 1" macro (eg
somewhere in /etc/rpm/macros.*) to make it permament, for a signle
run with rpm cli it's --excludedocs (which just flips the relevant
API flag)


Ahh, good to know. Would be cool to have this googleable somewhere...

Can I pass this somehow to yum? Or do I have to creat a macro file for
this?


You can set it in yum.conf (tsflags=nodocs), but then rpm wont know
about it (so if you install directly with rpm, it'll still install the
docs). Putting it in the macro configuration ensures everything going
through librpm honors it.


- Panu -

--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
 
Old 10-09-2012, 02:29 PM
Seth Vidal
 
Default systemd requires HTTP server and serves QR codes

On Tue, 9 Oct 2012, Panu Matilainen wrote:



--nodocs and tsflags=nodocs ends up with ugly ugly things when you want
to do rpm -Va later.


Err, not. Rpm remembers files that were skipped on purpose and does not whine
about them on verification:


[root@turre ~]# rpm -U --excludedocs /tmp/telnet-0.17-53.fc17.x86_64.rpm
[root@turre ~]# rpm -V telnet
[root@turre ~]# rpm -ql --state telnet
normal /usr/bin/telnet
not installed /usr/share/doc/telnet-0.17
not installed /usr/share/doc/telnet-0.17/README
not installed /usr/share/man/man1/telnet.1.gz



That's good to see. It didn't USED to work that way. I know this b/c when
I added tsflags=nodocs I got whined at by people about rpm -Va broke


-sv

--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
 
Old 10-09-2012, 02:31 PM
Matthew Miller
 
Default systemd requires HTTP server and serves QR codes

On Tue, Oct 09, 2012 at 04:05:10PM +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> On Tue, 09.10.12 09:49, Matthew Miller (mattdm@fedoraproject.org) wrote:
> > allowing regular users to do so. (Commonly currently accomplished by making
> > /var/log/messages owned and readable by the wheel group.)
> The HTTP thingy is not really how admins should access the logs. They
> should just use journalctl.

On a related but tangental note: I notice that journalctl allows access to
members of the admin group by default. In Fedora for the past few releases
we've followed the tradition of making "wheel" the admin group -- see
http://docs.fedoraproject.org/en-US/Fedora/17/html/Installation_Guide/sn-firstboot-systemuser.html
This is also the case in RHEL 6, so changes here have downstream
implications.

(Apparently Apple does the same thing? Not that that's directly relevant,
but we're not completely out in the weeds here.)

Could we make that a default on Fedora in addition to adm? (I assume this is
polkit but can't see it offhand -- hmmm... looks to be hard-coded in the
source?) I don't really have a strong opinion about whether adm should work
or not, but wheel should.

Second, there's a traditional separation between /var/log/secure and
/var/log/messages. Crucially, the "secure" log may contain
accidentally-typed user passwords and other privacy-sensitive information.
How can we do something similar with the systemd journal and journalctl?

Ideally, the /var/log/messages data would be available to members of the
admin group without extra authentication, but seeing the potentially-privacy
sensitive /var/log/secure should require re-authentication. (As a sysadmin,
I should be able to safely look at message data with a user looking over my
shoulder, so I can help them without possibly exposing private information
about other users on the system.)

--
Matthew Miller ☁☁☁ Fedora Cloud Architect ☁☁☁ <mattdm@fedoraproject.org>
--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
 
Old 10-09-2012, 02:34 PM
Simo Sorce
 
Default systemd requires HTTP server and serves QR codes

On Tue, 2012-10-09 at 16:12 +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> On Tue, 09.10.12 09:56, Simo Sorce (simo@redhat.com) wrote:
>
> > On Tue, 2012-10-09 at 15:23 +0200, Lennart Poettering wrote:
> > > On Tue, 09.10.12 07:10, "Jhann B. Gumundsson" (johannbg@gmail.com) wrote:
> > >
> > > > On 10/09/2012 04:34 AM, Bill Nottingham wrote:
> > > > >rsyslog.service
> > > >
> > > > Remind me again of the reason why we are still shipping rsyslog by
> > > > default now that we have the journal?
> > >
> > > For F19 I plan to submit a feature asking for not installing syslog by
> > > default anymore. I wonder how far I'll get with this before this is
> > > shut down by the conservatives... ;-)
> >
> > Does systemd journal populate /var/log/messages ?
>
> No. It doesnt.
>
> > I already found myself stranded in F18 a couple of times.
> > Stuff changed and there is no way to discover how to fix things.
>
> Well, making changes means, well, making changes. Sure it is a bit of a
> learning involved if we make changes, but it should always be our goal
> to make the learning easy rather than just sticking to the old ways,
> because we are afraid of making these changes. More specifically a good
> approach here could be to include an almost empty /var/log/messages that
> just tells you to invoke "journalctl" instead. Alternatively we could
> just add a /var/log/README with the same info.

Lennart, have you read my email ?
I did ask eaxctly this: make it easier to discover the new feature.
Please read the last part of my email (feel free to skip 1. and 2.
paragraphs).

> (Actually, it has been on my TODO list for a while to add
> /etc/rc.d/init.d/README with similar info, I just never came around to
> actually do it.)

Please do, it is *very* important, and the same goes for any other
change.
I would say you should *start* with the readme and then do the change,
that will put down the plan and then it's done (as long as you do not
change the plan in the course of action and forget to update the bread
crubs :-) There is nothing worse than a false trail

Simo.

--
Simo Sorce * Red Hat, Inc * New York

--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
 
Old 10-09-2012, 02:53 PM
Matthew Miller
 
Default systemd requires HTTP server and serves QR codes

On Tue, Oct 09, 2012 at 10:18:27AM -0400, Seth Vidal wrote:
> You'll need to get the packaging team on board with it. I have to
> say it is pretty much non-existent as a priority to anyone I've
> spoken with.

If we can save space in the minimal cloud image, it seems worth doing to me.
Looks like in the current EC2 instance, it's about 35M (minus a few K for
licenses).



--
Matthew Miller ☁☁☁ Fedora Cloud Architect ☁☁☁ <mattdm@fedoraproject.org>
--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
 
Old 10-09-2012, 02:54 PM
Seth Vidal
 
Default systemd requires HTTP server and serves QR codes

On Tue, 9 Oct 2012, Matthew Miller wrote:


On Tue, Oct 09, 2012 at 10:18:27AM -0400, Seth Vidal wrote:

You'll need to get the packaging team on board with it. I have to
say it is pretty much non-existent as a priority to anyone I've
spoken with.


If we can save space in the minimal cloud image, it seems worth doing to me.
Looks like in the current EC2 instance, it's about 35M (minus a few K for
licenses).


35M? That feels a lot like 'meh' to me.

-sv

--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
 
Old 10-09-2012, 03:08 PM
Peter Robinson
 
Default systemd requires HTTP server and serves QR codes

On Tue, Oct 9, 2012 at 3:54 PM, Seth Vidal <skvidal@fedoraproject.org> wrote:
>
>
>
> On Tue, 9 Oct 2012, Matthew Miller wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Oct 09, 2012 at 10:18:27AM -0400, Seth Vidal wrote:
>>>
>>> You'll need to get the packaging team on board with it. I have to
>>> say it is pretty much non-existent as a priority to anyone I've
>>> spoken with.
>>
>>
>> If we can save space in the minimal cloud image, it seems worth doing to
>> me.
>> Looks like in the current EC2 instance, it's about 35M (minus a few K for
>> licenses).
>
>
> 35M? That feels a lot like 'meh' to me.

I believe they're a lot more like 120Mb

Peter
--
devel mailing list
devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
 

Thread Tools




All times are GMT. The time now is 09:27 PM.

VBulletin, Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO ©2007, Crawlability, Inc.
Copyright 2007 - 2008, www.linux-archive.org