Am 15.10.2012 21:43, schrieb Bill Nottingham:
> Kevin Fenzi (kevin@scrye.com) said:
>>> 122659574 kernel
>>> 117821428 glibc-common
>>> 35623360 linux-firmware
>>> 14233540 coreutils
>>> 13845828 glibc
>>
>> I wonder... could we make linux-firmware optional?
>>
>> I would expect many virt env's don't need any firmware to work...
>> (but of course I could be wrong).
>
> "It depends". It includes firmware for wired NICs as well as other things,
> so it depends on what hardware your virtual environment is deciding to
> emulate

surely, it depends

but the hard dependency is a little too much

install it as default at fedora setup is fine
so such wired NICs are supported

but as example on a VMware platfrom these days you are using
vmxnet3 and vmw_pvscsi what means that all virtual hardware
is supported from the upstream kernel

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On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 03:43:11PM -0400, Bill Nottingham wrote:
> "It depends". It includes firmware for wired NICs as well as other things,
> so it depends on what hardware your virtual environment is deciding to
> emulate.

Whatever hardware support is needed to run out-of-box in KVM, Xen,
VirtualBox, and, sigh, VMware. If that doesn't also get us EC2 and
Rackspace, make it lightweight to add whatever is needed there.

That'd just be for _minimal_, of course. Default install would include
everything still.

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On Mon, 2012-10-15 at 21:48 +0200, Reindl Harald wrote:
>
> Am 15.10.2012 21:43, schrieb Bill Nottingham:
> > Kevin Fenzi (kevin@scrye.com) said:
> >>> 122659574 kernel
> >>> 117821428 glibc-common
> >>> 35623360 linux-firmware
> >>> 14233540 coreutils
> >>> 13845828 glibc
> >>
> >> I wonder... could we make linux-firmware optional?
> >>
> >> I would expect many virt env's don't need any firmware to work...
> >> (but of course I could be wrong).
> >
> > "It depends". It includes firmware for wired NICs as well as other things,
> > so it depends on what hardware your virtual environment is deciding to
> > emulate
>
> surely, it depends
>
> but the hard dependency is a little too much

I haven't seen all the arguments pro and contra, but on the face of it
I'd agree with Harald here. A hard dep seems excessive, just including
the package in the @core group (so people who want something *really*
minimal can at least take it out) would seem better.
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On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 03:38:36PM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
> > >> I wonder... could we make linux-firmware optional?
[...]
> I'd agree with Harald here. A hard dep seems excessive, just including
> the package in the @core group (so people who want something *really*
> minimal can at least take it out) would seem better.

I think this is already the case, actually. I just removed it from my F17
test vm and there were no deps and nothing immediately broke.

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On Mon, 15 Oct 2012 19:11:19 -0400
Matthew Miller <mattdm@fedoraproject.org> wrote:

> On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 03:38:36PM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
> > > >> I wonder... could we make linux-firmware optional?
> [...]
> > I'd agree with Harald here. A hard dep seems excessive, just
> > including the package in the @core group (so people who want
> > something *really* minimal can at least take it out) would seem
> > better.
>
> I think this is already the case, actually. I just removed it from my
> F17 test vm and there were no deps and nothing immediately broke.

Yeah, I guess I didn't look closely... it's actually a
Requires(pre): linux-firmware >= blahblahversion

So, once the kernel has been installed, you can safely remove it.
(If you like)

kevin
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Am 16.10.2012 01:50, schrieb Kevin Fenzi:
> On Mon, 15 Oct 2012 19:11:19 -0400
> Matthew Miller <mattdm@fedoraproject.org> wrote:
>
>> On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 03:38:36PM -0700, Adam Williamson wrote:
>>>>>> I wonder... could we make linux-firmware optional?
>> [...]
>>> I'd agree with Harald here. A hard dep seems excessive, just
>>> including the package in the @core group (so people who want
>>> something *really* minimal can at least take it out) would seem
>>> better.
>>
>> I think this is already the case, actually. I just removed it from my
>> F17 test vm and there were no deps and nothing immediately broke.
>
> Yeah, I guess I didn't look closely... it's actually a
> Requires(pre): linux-firmware >= blahblahversion
>
> So, once the kernel has been installed, you can safely remove it.
> (If you like)

correct me but this leads to re-install it on each kernel-update

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