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-   -   Any progress in Software Center in Fedora effort? (http://www.linux-archive.org/fedora-development/709878-any-progress-software-center-fedora-effort.html)

Jiri Eischmann 10-05-2012 03:19 PM

Any progress in Software Center in Fedora effort?
 
Hi,
the possibility of Software Center in Fedora has already been discussed
several times, last time a few month ago.
I read an article about a successful Google Summer of Code project [1]
whose goal was to make Software Center a distribution independent
program using PackageKit.
Matthias even made an Ubuntu-independent infrastructure for AppStream
(additional data about packages/apps).
I wonder if there are still any efforts to get it to Fedora and what it
would require from our infrastructure.

If I understand it correctly, there are currently three options:
1) Software Center based on PackageKit by Matthias
2) Light Software Center - a new app based on PackageKit from the
beginning
3) Apper already supports AppStream [2]

I'm asking because I hear from many (not only) beginners that they would
appreciate something like Ubuntu Software Center in Fedora. I guess it's
one of the main reasons why many users rather go for Ubuntu than Fedora.

Jiri

[1] http://blog.tenstral.net/2012/08/gsoc-appstream-final-report.html
[2] http://blog.tenstral.net/2012/08/appstream-for-apper.html

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Richard Hughes 10-05-2012 09:42 PM

Any progress in Software Center in Fedora effort?
 
On 5 October 2012 16:19, Jiri Eischmann <eischmann@redhat.com> wrote:
> 1) Software Center based on PackageKit by Matthias
> 2) Light Software Center - a new app based on PackageKit from the
> beginning
> 3) Apper already supports AppStream [2]

Basically, Fedora needs to ship Appstream metadata and then we can
just include any one of the two existing projects. To that, we need
someone who's got an interest in working with the infrastructure guys
in Fedora. I tried, but failed.

Richard.
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"tim.lauridsen@gmail.com" 10-07-2012 04:51 PM

Any progress in Software Center in Fedora effort?
 
On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 5:19 PM, Jiri Eischmann <eischmann@redhat.com> wrote:

Hi,

the possibility of Software Center in Fedora has already been discussed

several times, last time a few month ago.

I read an article about a successful Google Summer of Code project [1]

whose goal was to make Software Center a distribution independent

program using PackageKit.

Matthias even made an Ubuntu-independent infrastructure for AppStream

(additional data about packages/apps).

I wonder if there are still any efforts to get it to Fedora and what it

would require from our infrastructure.



If I understand it correctly, there are currently three options:

1) Software Center based on PackageKit by Matthias

2) Light Software Center - a new app based on PackageKit from the

beginning

3) Apper already supports AppStream [2]



I'm asking because I hear from many (not only) beginners that they would

appreciate something like Ubuntu Software Center in Fedora. I guess it's

one of the main reasons why many users rather go for Ubuntu than Fedora.



Jiri



[1] http://blog.tenstral.net/2012/08/gsoc-appstream-final-report.html

[2] http://blog.tenstral.net/2012/08/appstream-for-apper.html



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The ultimate software center is a web application, like Google playstore.

All the rating and commenting and other info, need to be centrally maintained and it is not a good idea to try to distribute this kind of metadata.There shall just be a local installer to install the packages triggered by the web app.
Another thing is what the users of Fedora and most other linux'es is not my old mother and most of these users, don't care about a big fancy software shop.So nobody is going to do this great amount of work it takes to make a great webstore, Ubuntu need it for the same ways as Apple, they want to earn some money.
It is an illusion that if we just have a fancy webstore, every body will start using Fedora IMHO.It will be nice if more people uses Fedora, but it not the main target, the greatness of Fedora is not measured but how many user it have, compared to other Linuxes or other os'es.

Tim
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drago01 10-07-2012 05:55 PM

Any progress in Software Center in Fedora effort?
 
On Sun, Oct 7, 2012 at 6:51 PM, tim.lauridsen@gmail.com
<tim.lauridsen@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 5:19 PM, Jiri Eischmann <eischmann@redhat.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>> the possibility of Software Center in Fedora has already been discussed
>> several times, last time a few month ago.
>> I read an article about a successful Google Summer of Code project [1]
>> whose goal was to make Software Center a distribution independent
>> program using PackageKit.
>> Matthias even made an Ubuntu-independent infrastructure for AppStream
>> (additional data about packages/apps).
>> I wonder if there are still any efforts to get it to Fedora and what it
>> would require from our infrastructure.
>>
>> If I understand it correctly, there are currently three options:
>> 1) Software Center based on PackageKit by Matthias
>> 2) Light Software Center - a new app based on PackageKit from the
>> beginning
>> 3) Apper already supports AppStream [2]
>>
>> I'm asking because I hear from many (not only) beginners that they would
>> appreciate something like Ubuntu Software Center in Fedora. I guess it's
>> one of the main reasons why many users rather go for Ubuntu than Fedora.
>>
>> Jiri
>>
>> [1] http://blog.tenstral.net/2012/08/gsoc-appstream-final-report.html
>> [2] http://blog.tenstral.net/2012/08/appstream-for-apper.html
>>
>> --
>> devel mailing list
>> devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
>> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
>
>
>
> The ultimate software center is a web application, like Google playstore.

The google play store is not only a website.

> All the rating and commenting and other info, need to be centrally
> maintained and it is not a good idea to try to distribute this kind of
> metadata.

Why?

> There shall just be a local installer to install the packages triggered by
> the web app.

We already have this.

> Another thing is what the users of Fedora and most other linux'es is not my
> old mother and most of these users, don't care about a big fancy software
> shop.

Maybe maybe not. The point is that a fancy software shop would result
into this "old mother" type of user consider to use fedora.
A user ultimately don't care about packages but about applications.
Other distritors are moving in this direction while we fall behind.
We should lead here like we do in other areas.

> So nobody is going to do this great amount of work it takes to make a great
> webstore, Ubuntu need it for the same ways as Apple, they want to earn some
> money.

Earning money is not the point, having a good user experience is.

> It is an illusion that if we just have a fancy webstore, every body will
> start using Fedora IMHO.

Nobody said that.

> It will be nice if more people uses Fedora, but it not the main target, the
> greatness of Fedora is not measured but how many user it have, compared to
> other Linuxes or other os'es.

Well without users (and growth) it will become irrelevant and thus it
will become harder to achieve anything else.

As for people working on this Richard tried and got blocked by the
infrastructure people. (don't know the details though).
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Reindl Harald 10-07-2012 06:02 PM

Any progress in Software Center in Fedora effort?
 
Am 07.10.2012 19:55, schrieb drago01:
> Maybe maybe not. The point is that a fancy software shop would result
> into this "old mother" type of user consider to use fedora.
> A user ultimately don't care about packages but about applications.
> Other distritors are moving in this direction while we fall behind.
> We should lead here like we do in other areas.

why do we need to lead everywehre for every price?

>> It will be nice if more people uses Fedora, but it not the main target, the
>> greatness of Fedora is not measured but how many user it have, compared to
>> other Linuxes or other os'es.
>
> Well without users (and growth) it will become irrelevant and thus it
> will become harder to achieve anything else.

nobody says "without users"
but do we really need every noob as user?

why have we different operating systems and distributions if all
satisfies the same user-base for every price? there is also a need
for a clean and straight forwarded linux without compromises only
to fetch users better satisfied with OSX or windows





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Antonio Trande 10-07-2012 06:04 PM

Any progress in Software Center in Fedora effort?
 
The ultimate software center is a web application, like Google playstore.

All the rating and commenting and other info, need to be centrally maintained and it is not a good idea to try to distribute this kind of metadata.There shall just be a local installer to install the packages triggered by the web app.

Another thing is what the users of Fedora and most other linux'es is not my old mother and most of these users, don't care about a big fancy software shop.So nobody is going to do this great amount of work it takes to make a great webstore, Ubuntu need it for the same ways as Apple, they want to earn some money.

It is an illusion that if we just have a fancy webstore, every body will start using Fedora IMHO.It will be nice if more people uses Fedora, but it not the main target, the greatness of Fedora is not measured but how many user it have, compared to other Linuxes or other os'es.


Tim
Amen*
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Nikos Roussos 10-07-2012 06:32 PM

Any progress in Software Center in Fedora effort?
 
drago01 <drago01@gmail.com> wrote:
>A user ultimately don't care about packages but about applications.
>Other distritors are moving in this direction while we fall behind.
>We should lead here like we do in other areas.

+1
I still haven't understand what it takes to get this started. Besides of course from having some people dedicating some time on that. Convincing infrastructure team is the first step? Does this need to get through FESCO first?


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Emmanuel Seyman 10-07-2012 06:47 PM

Any progress in Software Center in Fedora effort?
 
* Nikos Roussos [07/10/2012 20:41] :
>
> I still haven't understand what it takes to get this started. Besides of
> course from having some people dedicating some time on that. Convincing
> infrastructure team is the first step? Does this need to get through FESCO
> first?

You'll probably want to read the previous thread on the subject as well
as the apropos bugs:
http://lists.fedoraproject.org/pipermail/devel/2011-November/159951.html

Anybody interested in this will need to talk to Infra, RelEng and Legal
and ensure that they're all satisfied with the implementation.

Emmanuel
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Jiri Eischmann 10-08-2012 08:19 AM

Any progress in Software Center in Fedora effort?
 
tim.lauridsen@gmail.com p*še v Ne 07. 10. 2012 v 18:51 +0200:
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 5, 2012 at 5:19 PM, Jiri Eischmann <eischmann@redhat.com>
> wrote:
> Hi,
> the possibility of Software Center in Fedora has already been
> discussed
> several times, last time a few month ago.
> I read an article about a successful Google Summer of Code
> project [1]
> whose goal was to make Software Center a distribution
> independent
> program using PackageKit.
> Matthias even made an Ubuntu-independent infrastructure for
> AppStream
> (additional data about packages/apps).
> I wonder if there are still any efforts to get it to Fedora
> and what it
> would require from our infrastructure.
>
> If I understand it correctly, there are currently three
> options:
> 1) Software Center based on PackageKit by Matthias
> 2) Light Software Center - a new app based on PackageKit from
> the
> beginning
> 3) Apper already supports AppStream [2]
>
> I'm asking because I hear from many (not only) beginners that
> they would
> appreciate something like Ubuntu Software Center in Fedora. I
> guess it's
> one of the main reasons why many users rather go for Ubuntu
> than Fedora.
>
> Jiri
>
> [1]
> http://blog.tenstral.net/2012/08/gsoc-appstream-final-report.html
> [2] http://blog.tenstral.net/2012/08/appstream-for-apper.html
>
> --
> devel mailing list
> devel@lists.fedoraproject.org
> https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/devel
>
>
>
> The ultimate software center is a web application, like Google
> playstore.
>
>
> All the rating and commenting and other info, need to be centrally
> maintained and it is not a good idea to try to distribute this kind of
> metadata.
> There shall just be a local installer to install the packages
> triggered by the web app.
> Another thing is what the users of Fedora and most other linux'es is
> not my old mother and most of these users, don't care about a big
> fancy software shop.

I strongly disagree. Believe me, as a community manager in Red Hat I
communicate with community members and normal users on daily basis. And
the question "When is Fedora going to have something like Software
Center" is one of the most frequent ones.
And I also disagree it's about our mums and dads. We went to a local
university last week to introduce Fedora to new computer science
students. Those are users we're highly interested in. But for most of
them, it's the first contact with Linux and questions and opinions like
"Where can I search only for app" or "Looking for apps among packages is
not very convenient" were very frequent.

> So nobody is going to do this great amount of work it takes to make a
> great webstore, Ubuntu need it for the same ways as Apple, they want
> to earn some money.)

As someone already wrote, this is not about money, this is about user
experience. Software Center only with free software would be a big
improvement over what we have now.

> It is an illusion that if we just have a fancy webstore, every body
> will start using Fedora IMHO.

Nobody simplifies it like this. Software Center is just one of pieces in
the puzzle.

> It will be nice if more people uses Fedora, but it not the main
> target, the greatness of Fedora is not measured but how many user it
> have, compared to other Linuxes or other os'es.

Yeah, the number of users might not be the main goal for Fedora, but
without users, we won't achieve our actual goals. Less users leads in
long term to less contributors, for example.

Jiri


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Jiri Eischmann 10-08-2012 08:49 AM

Any progress in Software Center in Fedora effort?
 
Reindl Harald p*še v Ne 07. 10. 2012 v 20:02 +0200:
> Am 07.10.2012 19:55, schrieb drago01:
> > Maybe maybe not. The point is that a fancy software shop would result
> > into this "old mother" type of user consider to use fedora.
> > A user ultimately don't care about packages but about applications.
> > Other distritors are moving in this direction while we fall behind.
> > We should lead here like we do in other areas.
>
> why do we need to lead everywehre for every price?
>
> >> It will be nice if more people uses Fedora, but it not the main target, the
> >> greatness of Fedora is not measured but how many user it have, compared to
> >> other Linuxes or other os'es.
> >
> > Well without users (and growth) it will become irrelevant and thus it
> > will become harder to achieve anything else.
>
> nobody says "without users"
> but do we really need every noob as user?

Why does some of us imply it's about noobs?
I know about many experienced Fedora users and contributors who would
appreciate it, too.

And why are noobs something unwanted?
As I said above, most new computer science students at our local
technical university are Linux noobs who would appreciate something like
this. They have potential to be good contributors in a few years if
Fedora hooks them up now. Unfortunately, our competition is more
successful at this and it will have an impact on our contributor base in
long term.

> why have we different operating systems and distributions if all
> satisfies the same user-base for every price? there is also a need
> for a clean and straight forwarded linux without compromises only
> to fetch users better satisfied with OSX or windows

How would Software Center hold you from enjoying clean and straight
forwarded Linux? It's just an app. Anyone who'd like to would be able to
use YUM, YUMEX, Add/Remove, Apper,...

Jiri


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